Quote from: Thanatos02Fuck you, too, man. What? Are you going to kick me out of the thread? Honestly, my statement of irritation is much smaller then the constant pissing that fills this forum, so if you're going to get on my case, you'd be better served to light a fire under some other asses first. Until you do, get the fuck off mine, ok?

"Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you."

Quote from: Caesar Slaad"Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you."

I've been Sith for a long time, by now.

What is more idiotic and pathetic than someone on the internet posting in a thread "I don´t like this thread"?

I really don´t get it.

And again: speculating about 4e is le raison d´Être pour le Jeux de Roles Site. Especially 8 months earlier.

Quote from: SettembriniWhat is more idiotic and pathetic than someone on the internet posting in a thread "I don´t like this thread"?

I really don´t get it.

And again: speculating about 4e is le raison d´Être pour le Jeux de Roles Site. Especially 8 months earlier.

Speculation is fine. But you're criticizing "second wind" without the proper context. Is it a feat, a class ability, or something that everyone can do? We don't know yet, so the criticism is pointless until we fully understand what the ability is. Don't you agree?

Quote from: Sacrificial LambSpeculation is fine. But you're criticizing "second wind" without the proper context. Is it a feat, a class ability, or something that everyone can do? We don't know yet, so the criticism is pointless until we fully understand what the ability is. Don't you agree?

Settembrini's complaint is more along the lines of, "I aint never heard of it, it sounds stupid, I'm having a wonderful snit so I'll ignore information it refers to a real thing."

That's right, Settembrini's a Second Wind Denialist. :emot-moore: :tinfoil:

:rolleyes:
I laid out my arguments for everybody to see. Go, look em up!

I'm in the "I liked it in SWSE because it fit the movies, but not sure about having it in D&D" camp.

I think the biggest problem for me is that hit points are already an abstraction of exactly this kind of thing.  If you start out with 20 hit points and are reduced to 5, but still keep fighting, to me that's already being on your second wind.

Of course, D&D has been moving away from abstraction for a while now (what with everyone getting multiple attacks, things like feats, etc).

I guess I'd rather they either just completely get rid of hit points and make combat less abstract, or go back to making it more abstract and not throw in stuff like second wind.

It's not a dealbreaker for me with 4e by itself, though.  But it is yet another piece of information that makes me think that the game is overpowering the PCs way too much.

I agree with everything jgants has said.

Well reasoned point jgants.

I'm still wondering whether this is there as a feat, as a generic thing everyone can do, whether monsters get it, etc.

Quote from: SettembriniThis line of argumentation leads to ridicolousness.

Well, thanks for my new .sig, anyway.  This is the silliest damn post in a while.
That is all.

Quote from: jgantsOf course, D&D has been moving away from abstraction for a while now (what with everyone getting multiple attacks, things like feats, etc).

I guess I'd rather they either just completely get rid of hit points and make combat less abstract, or go back to making it more abstract and not throw in stuff like second wind.

I am very pleased they're moving away from abstract combat for D&D 4e.


Eeeeexcellent.

Quote from: SettembriniHitpoints are abstractions.
abstraction =! dramatic device.

Point of syntax:

abstraction != dramatic device

Really, Sett, you should be playing GURPS.

Quote from: walkerpPoint of syntax:

abstraction != dramatic device

Really, Sett, you should be playing GURPS.

 Yes, he should ....even if he did think it was a joke.
 He might enjoy the current punchlines.


- Ed C.

You get the feeling with 4e (and this could be more of a function of the way information is trickling down than the game itself) that they are just throwing in neat things to differentiate it from 3e but that there is no unifying design principles behind the system.  A second wind here, a mook rule there and hey presto, new edition!

Quote from: walkerpYou get the feeling with 4e (and this could be more of a function of the way information is trickling down than the game itself) that they are just throwing in neat things to differentiate it from 3e but that there is no unifying design principles behind the system.  A second wind here, a mook rule there and hey presto, new edition!

It appears that the unifying design philosophy is a greater focus on the encounter as the primary instance of play, which is why we're seeing the redesign of the magic system, the inclusion of powers and manuevers and the assignation of tactical roles etc. An upshot of this is an attempt to keep things moving at a brisk pace, hence the mook rules and Second Wind.