Quote from: GMSkarkaI'm glad somebody else stepped up and said this.

Seriously.

Like anything you say matters :rolleyes:

Quote from: William G. GruffMy favorite game company did so many stupid things that it no longer exists. :deflated:

Yeah and that's that sad thing, I don't want WEG to do so many dumb things that it puts them out of business.

Quote from: chaosvoyagerHmm, this thread seems to be more about 'how West End Games screwed up' as opposed to the premise the thread title implies.

Yes, I believe that I stated at the begining of the thread that I did not word things as well as I could.

Quote from: chaosvoyagerHowever, responding to the title, yes, it's very annoying when companies do stupid things, and even moreso when they learn nothing and CONTINUE to do the same stupid things.

Quote from: chaosvoyagerOne of the boneheaded things RPG companies still try to do is make money by licensing the game system. It's rarely profitable (the income covering the cost of brand approvals and the like), and it limits the size of the business. The programming language market is extremely similar, and the companies that tried to 'sell' the rights to use a language are far smaller (or out of business entirely) than those that used a freely available one. More money can made based on how well a product UTILIZES a language than by selling the language itself, it's just not apparent in a market this small.

This I really didn't know.  But I can see how the overall cost of managing licenses can make it not worth it.

Quote from: chaosvoyagerBut game companies really don't license rules (as they would need to be protected by patents), they license BRANDS. If all you're after is the rules, then just implement a slightly modified version in your game. This is done ALL THE TIME.

There are very few valuable brands in the RPG market (such as D&D), and many of those high value brands are being devalued by the actions of their owners (such as Earthdawn and Traveller). I like WEG, but for the life of me I can't see how the 'D6' brand is worth anything, let alone $500.00. And if my D6 product becomes successful, then I have not only paid for a brand, but I've increased its value for the owner.

Doesn't make financial sense.

Exactly and that is what I am saying.  Expecially the fact that D6 has been away for awhile, other systems has passed it by and D6 was just revised.  It has to prove itself in the market.

I am not demanding WEG do *Anything*, they can keep doing what they are doing but they are going to stay barely on the radar.

Quote from: chaosvoyagerRemember back when there were all these game magazines, and they covered all kinds of different RPGs? Not anymore. In fact, such magazines are probably impossible at this point because too many companies now have the ability to request a licensing fee for the use of their 'system'. It doesn't even matter if they never intend to ask for that fee, the mere possibility will stop a business from investing in such a project.

I think all this has led to a growing balkanization of the RPG industry, but it's hard to tell as it's always been a bit tribal.

Wow, asking for a licensing fee for just putting something in a magazine.  I never thought about that.

These are some interesting points

Quote from: Blue DevilLike anything you say matters :rolleyes:

Well, let's see.  G.M. Skarka actually runs an RPG publishing company, while you're jsut some dork with a message board.

Yeah.  I'm inclined to put more weight on his opinion.

Quote from: Blue DevilLike anything you say matters :rolleyes:

Wow....a dismissive comment from some random chucklefuck I've never heard of....PLUS the devastating ROLLEYES OF DOOM!!!

How will I ever recover?

Here's the deal, snowflake:  You're just one of a countless horde of fanboys bitching about how they "could totally do it better, if only Game Company X would listen to my Mad Biznez Skillz."

We constantly joke about you guys, as we're hanging out at all the cool convention parties you don't get invited to.

Quote from: GMSkarkaHere's the deal, snowflake:  You're just one of a countless horde of fanboys bitching about how they "could totally do it better, if only Game Company X would listen to my Mad Biznez Skillz."

Yeah. The smart fanboys keep their mouths shut and let the herd of game companies thin itself...

Seanchai

Quote from: chaosvoyagerOne of the boneheaded things RPG companies still try to do is make money by licensing the game system. It's rarely profitable (the income covering the cost of brand approvals and the like), and it limits the size of the business.

Quote from: Blue DevilI don't want WEG to do so many dumb things that it puts them out of business.

I think you two guys should team up. We have here a game company, and its inner workings you don't know anything about, you haven't seen their account books or had a consultation with their boss. And yet you're still able to peer through that fog of business and discern that they are in Dire Trouble, and the causes of it - that huge five hundred buck barrier that stops gamers who still live in their parents' basement from being able to afford to write a d6 book! If they followed your advice, they'd be extremely successful; if they ignore your advice, they'll fail abysmally. Whatever you're doing as your day jobs, you should give it up, and team up to form a profitable game company. Such cuttingly insightful business sense would give you great success.

I look forward to seeing the Best RPG Ever, or even a Sorta Successful RPG, from the Chaosvoyager-Blue Devil (TM) collaboration!

Quote from: J ArcaneWell, let's see.  G.M. Skarka actually runs an RPG publishing company, while you're jsut some dork with a message board.

Yeah.  I'm inclined to put more weight on his opinion.

What opinion?   He just made an insulting comment (The same thing he did over at rpg.net that got him banned).

If he had said something that explained why he thinks I am wrong "You are wrong because of X) then I would put more weight into his opinion.

A hit and run insult from a man with a large ego (undeserved at best) does not contribute anything into the conversation.

I have decided I am not going to worry about it.  I have decided to sell my D6 stuff off and play games/support companies I think are run better and are going to be around for awhile.

I have a couple games and groups that I have picked up, one is a group I am going to play in and one is a group I am going to run a game.  I found found when you choose a system other then D6 that it's easier to find players

So for me, the issue is resolved

Quote from: GMSkarkaHere's the deal, snowflake:  You're just one of a countless horde of fanboys bitching about how they "could totally do it better, if only Game Company X would listen to my Mad Biznez Skillz."

No, I was simply stating and discussing what I saw.  I am not forcing WEG to do anything nor do I think they will/have to listen to me.

I was simply venting my frustration.

Quote from: GMSkarkaWe constantly joke about you guys, as we're hanging out at all the cool convention parties you don't get invited to.

Cool convention parties.  Whatever.  I hate to break it to you but Game designers aren't better then all of us gamers and without all of us gamers your products would sell.

You seem to have a good time insulting the base of people who might buy your product.

Quote from: SeanchaiYeah. The smart fanboys keep their mouths shut and let the herd of game companies thin itself...

Seanchai

You are right, I should just let the companies that can't do things right go away.  So I am not going to bitch about WEG anymore.

I am going to follow your advice

Quote from: JimBobOzI think you two guys should team up. We have here a game company, and its inner workings you don't know anything about, you haven't seen their account books or had a consultation with their boss. And yet you're still able to peer through that fog of business and discern that they are in Dire Trouble, and the causes of it

I just go by what I have gleened from discussions on the message bases, things hellreach has said, etc.

Quote from: JimBobOzIf they followed your advice, they'd be extremely successful; if they ignore your advice, they'll fail abysmally.

Point to me where I said this or admit you are lying.  I never said that, I said "I think it would be better if they lowered the price of their license fee".

Hell, people probably see that, laugh and then use D20 for their products.  D20 is more established then D6 is (Yes, it was around before but it went away and then came back, got revised and has to prove itself once again in the market).

Personally WEG can keep doing what they are doing as far as I am concerned.  It's not my money and it's not my company and it really doesn't matter if they are here or not in the end.  Either they can compete or they go away.

I see that this dumbass has a grasp of sarcasm that's equal to his grasp of the publishing business.

I love the fact that in the space of a single post, he goes from denying that he is bitching ("No, I'm stating and discussing") to admitting that he is ("I  am not going to bitch about WEG anymore").

Probably just frustrated because he started his own message board, and then ended up having to do 90% of the posting himself.

*Snip Skarka's Crap*

I see GMS that you can only be rude and not have an actual conversation.  

That's exactly what got you kicked off of RPG.NET in the first place.

At any rate, get over yourself.  You are a game designer in a hobby that doesn't make up even 1% of the population.  That means more then 99% of the population doesnt know or even care who you are.

Anyway I am not going to waste anymore time talking to you, welcome to my ignore list

Quote from: Blue DevilI see GMS that you can only be rude and not have an actual conversation.

In my (limited) experience, GMS is a jackass.  

He also tends to make some very solid points.  

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Quote from: Levi KornelsenIn my (limited) experience, GMS is a jackass.

This is very clear.  He has written some interesting things but I have refused to buy them because they were written by him.  I can't bring myself to give money to people who are assholes to me.  

Quote from: Levi KornelsenHe also tends to make some very solid points.  

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I wouldn't have a problem if he had *MADE* a point.  All he did was make a hit and run insult (His MO).   Would help me to learn why I am wrong from someone from the inside. Instead he just wants to be insulting.

As I said I never demanded anything from WEG, I simply said "This is what I see, discuss".  

He is on my ignore list so I don't have to see him or his overinflated ego