Quote from: Exploderwizard;856396This installment was pretty funny overall. Here, Angry GM wrestles with problems at great length that were solved by typical OD&D campaign play about 40 years ago.

Shit, Angry wrestles to fix things that aren't even problems!

http://theangrygm.com/why-race-isnt-broken/

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;856441Well, in a way, every new generation of players has to learn all the old stuff again. So it's true.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... and the rest of us are doomed to watch.

Quote from: nDervish;856667Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it... and the rest of us are doomed to watch.

And weep.  Omnes plangite mecum!

Quote from: Ratman_tf;856535Shit, Angry wrestles to fix things that aren't even problems!

Oh, man. I decide my elf was raised by gun-toting meerkats, and the default setup in the books is some kind of medieval Nordic and Celtic mix. This is such a problem! I mean, how could I be expected to use imagination and common sense?

The latest update.

http://theangrygm.com/welcome-to-the-megadungeon-how-to-award-xp/

He addresses some of the balance concerns.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;857596The latest update.

http://theangrygm.com/welcome-to-the-megadungeon-how-to-award-xp/

He addresses some of the balance concerns.

The update in which this guy takes over-thinking this project to a whole new level.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;857739The update in which this guy takes over-thinking this project to a whole new level.

I guess if you grew up on modern "the GM is responsible for the Story and the Fun" type advice then this over-structuring is understandable. There's a whole bunch of them out there - Gnome Stew, Newbie DM are a couple others I can think of. The best counter is Noism's advice to players : "You are responsible for your own orgasm" - ie it's up to the players to be proactive, make decisions, do stuff, and create an enjoyable game, without the GM pre-writing everything that will happen.

Quote from: Exploderwizard;857739The update in which this guy takes over-thinking this project to a whole new level.

I created and stocked a new sub-level for my dungeon (about 70-80 rooms) this week. I doubt I spent as much time on it as he did writing that post. And I expect my players will enjoy it just fine -- well, except "enjoy" is probably not the best term for the "Mad Mummy" special area. As I may have said before, What Angry GM is doing is what players playing WOTC D&D "new school style" expect of their DMs, I can see why most just buy adventure paths.

Do you guys disagree that what he's doing would make a fun game? Or is it just because it takes longer?

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;857806Do you guys disagree that what he's doing would make a fun game? Or is it just because it takes longer?

Someone might find it fun I suppose. I find it amusing because he completely misses the point of a large (mega) dungeon.

He is putting an awful lot of work into creating what is essentially, an adventure path set in a single dungeon.

In an old school mega-dungeon setting, character advancement is uncertain. One party could have terrible luck and struggle to find enough treasure to advance, while another group could hit the jackpot scoring major haul after haul. Where the players go and when, and how many encounters they have or the nature of those encounters are all up to the players.

So planning something like exactly how many fights are needed to level up, and placing mini-bosses at timed level up points is kind of the antithesis of exploratory play.

So if your group is one that loves adventure paths, and leveling up and gaining rewards on a regular orderly schedule, then you will probably enjoy this dungeon.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;857806Do you guys disagree that what he's doing would make a fun game? Or is it just because it takes longer?

I don't doubt that Angry's overwrought design process can produce a fun game.

What I disagree with is the idea that it's necessary to go through such a process to get a fun game.

If he enjoys spending his life poring over spreadsheets, plotting out experience progressions, and making the occasional side-trip into inventing revolutionary concepts like wandering monsters, well, then, more power to him.  But I'll be very surprised if the end result is more fun, or does more to encourage truly exploratory play, than the dungeons I was producing in high school by just sitting down, drawing a bunch of shit on graph paper, and then filling it with whatever monsters and treasure felt right to me when I stocked it.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;857806Do you guys disagree that what he's doing would make a fun game? Or is it just because it takes longer?

Well, it seems less fun than letting players choose their own path and be surprised by the results. The strength of the megadungeon format is the freedom to explore it offers within the constrained space of the graph paper. Turning it into a series of linear quests was already done by WotC in their "Expedition to..." series, I have the Greyhawk one.

Quote from: S'mon;857745I guess if you grew up on modern "the GM is responsible for the Story and the Fun" type advice then this over-structuring is understandable.

Speaking from experience this seems to be a case of older player that can't play as much as they are used to and filling the time with this.

Quote from: nDervish;857865I don't doubt that Angry's overwrought design process can produce a fun game.

What I disagree with is the idea that it's necessary to go through such a process to get a fun game.

If he enjoys spending his life poring over spreadsheets, plotting out experience progressions, and making the occasional side-trip into inventing revolutionary concepts like wandering monsters, well, then, more power to him.  But I'll be very surprised if the end result is more fun, or does more to encourage truly exploratory play, than the dungeons I was producing in high school by just sitting down, drawing a bunch of shit on graph paper, and then filling it with whatever monsters and treasure felt right to me when I stocked it.

If they guy wants to go through his process and put it online, what harm does it do? Either ignore the stuff you already have considered, or wait until there's an update that covers something you may have not considered.
Also, he plans to publish this, which means a bit more process than the average GM eyeballing and on-the-fly adjustments. I can run a session off of a single sticky note, but I'd flesh it out before sharing it with the world.

"The primary driver of XP in D&D is monster encounters." Is that really still the case in 5E?

In old D&D, the primary source of XP is treasure.

The original XP value for monster slaying is an order of magnitude greater for 1st-level monsters than in Supplement I and later, but trying to level up on that alone is still suicidal. I think it's actually well balanced, the higher values below 9th level -- and especially at very low levels -- being appropriate to the danger.

The great value of treasure involved presents a problem: what to do with it? Hire armies to pillage still more treasure (for fewer if any XP)? Buy magic items?

This has been addressed with extravagant upkeep and training costs and onerous taxation, and the variant of having to spend money to get XP (as opposed to keeping both XP and GP). I'm increasingly inclined to think it best
(a) to give smaller treasures (in terms of buying power) worth the same XP, and
(b) to give significant awards for magical treasures (without trading them for cash).