Get over yourselves.

No, really.  Get over yourselves.  Once upon a time, being a fan of Original D&D or AD&D or even the various flavors of Basic D&D and having a web presence meant not only talking about how cool you thought those games were, but providing a little something that other people liked.  One of the coolest things in the world was hearing that someone had printed out one of the modules I'd written, put the cover on cardstock, and it had been so well considered by gamers playing it that the DM had given it away as a prize.  Likewise, I've been to a convention and seen people using Dragonsfoot originated Character Sheets.  I've had people I game with come back to me and ask if I'd heard of that "OSRIC thing".

My game of choice had a nice "spring" that went from around 2000 to 2009 courtesy of .PDFs.  You can always, with a minimum of digging, find original books through amazon resellers, the ABE used booksearch, and so forth.  The PDFs are gone thanks to the insouciant greed of WotC (and pirates), and lets be reasonable, the books won't be there forever.  We're all we have.

So this is my request, what I ask of you.  Quit worrying about who has the most linkbacks.  Quit scrabbling to be the "authoritative voice in the wilderness".  Ask yourself a question: what am I doing today that makes Original, Basic or Advanced D&D hang on?  Is it pontificating over silly concepts like GNS and how D&D does/does not fit in to them?  Is it trying to reinvent the wheel?  Or is it writing adventures, doing artwork and maps, announcing that you'll be at a 'con and inviting people to come - or inviting them to come to your local games?  Are you doing this for the love of the game, or are you doing this for a little self-aggrandizement?  

All of this assumes that you're in it for the furtherance of the hobby, and not just for a dick-length measuring contest.  I'll admit, I once worried about that sort of thing.  This "OSR" that came along - why, I was at the forefront of it, why wasn't I being mentioned more often?!  Then I realized that...well...I sit here, doing my occasional output, writing stuff, I've got a group of folks who like what I do and ultimately, that's what matters.

Linkbacks and press and all of that are good, but they're not what matters.  What matters is letting people know that the games we enjoy are still viable.  There was some talk in a Q&A thread from a WotC muckety muck about the possibility of going PoD on old products.  I'm sure they'll strongly consider that if there's a market.  How can there be a market if people aren't gaming, though?  How will people get the verve, the vibe, the coolness that is old D&D if all you're doing is worrying about who's on top of the pile at the moment?  It's all well and good to promote - but sitting back and saying "Oh yeah, big push coming, just as soon as I get heard in enough places!" is...well, self-defeating.  Because you'll constantly (and I think unconsciously) keep moving that goal back again and again.  Just a few more links.  Just a few more visitors.  You will never let yourselves hit critical mass.  You'll worry more about making sure your voice is heard than you will about what your voice is saying.  What's more important, saying something vital that will slowly spread as it is heard by a tiny handful of people, or saying nothing to a huge crowd?

Don't worry about the machine.  Quit making the game "Let's see who's the biggest boldest 'blogger".  The games are supposed to be what we're playing, not some Alternate Reality Game about who has the most "important" FRPG web-'blog.

Finally, the "OSR".  Guys...quit being tourists.  It's kind of creepy.  I'd rather sit down once every six months with a bunch of Zep-listening beardos (I am one, I should) who can quote page, paragraph and line of the Dungeon Masters Guide and play G1 than sweat who is the more nouveau-Olde Schoole.  Just...just game for goodness' sake.  Don't worry about a revival or renaissance.  It's here!  It's been going on since 2e came out!  Why don't you come over and join us?

-Bill Silvey,
AKA, The Dungeon Delver
24 March, 2010

Well said.
I love some of the gimmicks, tricks, tips, and general productivity shown by the OSR bloggers, but all this haggling about the definitions and inane posturing is on my last nerve at the moment.

You know a good place to talk about all those Vintage Games?

Quote from: StormBringer;369389You know a good place to talk about all those Vintage Games?

Yes, and I've got a link to my 'site in my sig, thanks!



No, seriously, your forum's swell too.

Quote from: StormBringer;369389You know a good place to talk about all those Vintage Games?

I visit the Citadel every day. Throw me a bone, and I'll bite.
Post some topics. Let's get cracking!

Honestly, I'm tired of these tirades about "the OSR this", "the OSR blogosphere that"...

NAME NAMES. Post links to examples of what you're talking about.
Point the finger, because I don't know who the fuck you are talking about. On the OSR scene, you've got guys from dragonsfoot, guys from K&K Alehouse, guys writing blogs like Akrasia, or Rob Conley, or Chgowiz, or Zach, or Jeff Rients, next to other guys like James M and Grognardia, you've got guys on mailing lists, and guys doing the Castle of the Mad Archmage like the Greyhawk Grognard.

Who the HELL are you talking about? Seriously? We're talking about vastly different types of crowds, interests, personalities, etc here.

I don't get it. It's like everyone assumes that Grognardia speaks for the OSR... which is complete and utter bullshit.

QuotePoint the finger, because I don't know who the fuck you are talking about. On the OSR scene, you've got guys from dragonsfoot, guys from K&K Alehouse, guys writing blogs like Akrasia, or Rob Conley, or Chgowiz, or Zach, or Jeff Rients, next to other guys like James M and Grognardia, you've got guys on mailing lists, and guys doing the Castle of the Mad Archmage like the Greyhawk Grognard.

There's two kinds of people. Those who are doing, and those who, well...are just about bitching, blogging, bragging, and yammering on about each other and creating specious news. Frankly, those people know who they are and they're hanging around watching the first group of people - who at this point are too busy and rocking too hard to give a fuck about them.

That grognardia guy is a bit of a fruit loop. That's all that comes to mind at the moment, the truly nutty ones I usually read once then forget about.

Apparently there was a drama this week about some deepthroating gamers or something. Whatever.

I'm happy to name names, it's just that they're so insignificant that they're quickly forgotten.

I don't even visit those blogs, go to "OSR" sites, and I haven't heard anyone say if TRAVELLER is "Old School" or not.
 Is Traveller disqualified because its science fiction and space traveling?

In other words : What the fuck is the big deal about "OSR" ?

(and why should I care? Or why should gamers who do stuff besides "D&D" care?)

- Ed C.

Quote from: Kellri;369403There's two kinds of people. Those who are doing, and those who, well...are just about bitching, blogging, bragging, and yammering on about each other and creating specious news. Frankly, those people know who they are and they're hanging around watching the first group of people - who at this point are too busy and rocking too hard to give a fuck about them.

OK. That's already more helpful.

Quote from: Koltar;369407I don't even visit those blogs, go to "OSR" sites, and I haven't heard anyone say if TRAVELLER is "Old School" or not.
 Is Traveller disqualified because its science fiction and space traveling?

In other words : What the fuck is the big deal about "OSR" ?

(and why should I care? Or why should gamers who do stuff besides "D&D" care?)

- Ed C.

FWIW, I consider Traveller "old school" because I like it (and, if you need something more substantive than that, because as Elliot Wilen put it a couple days ago: "if it feels like it was designed by someone who also played/designed Avalon Hill and SPI games in the 1970's, it'll feel "old school""). We have a dedicated Traveller board at the K&K Alehouse because our founder (the late Jerry Mapes) was a huge Traveller fan, but it gets almost zero traffic (and most of the traffic it does get is from people complaining about how little traffic there is!).

As for whether anyone else considers Traveller "old school": don't know; don't care...

Yeah, Classic Traveller is great!  I'm getting ready to run Mongoose Traveller, which manages to get back to being pretty much just a cleaned up version of Classic, with a few nice little fixes.  

As for the OSR, there's so many different communities out there involved in it that I may have missed some of the stuff DD talks about.  When it comes to classical gaming, I don't really have time for dickwaving or onetruewayism, and most of the blogs I pay attention to right now don't, either.  

Really, there's nothing a steady diet of Jeff's Gameblog, Bat In The Attic, and Greyhawk Grognard won't fix.

Quote from: Zachary The First;369424Really, there's nothing a steady diet of Jeff's Gameblog, Bat In The Attic, and Greyhawk Grognard won't fix.

Appreciate the compliment there Zach.

I had my fill of drama running ARGO, a NERO a boffer live-action chapter. I will just focus on writing useful stuff this time around.

Quote from: Benoist;369396I don't get it. It's like everyone assumes that Grognardia speaks for the OSR... which is complete and utter bullshit.

Spot on!  But lest we focus he is the Eternal Pharaoh of the Old School Kingdom

Quote from: Kellri;369403There's two kinds of people. Those who are doing, and those who, well...are just about bitching, blogging, bragging, and yammering on about each other and creating specious news.

I wrote about this here. The group of people writing stuff for older edition share many characteristics with groups that write open source software, and groups that use a lot of volunteers to run their events.  These groups are dominated and shaped by those who do the work.  I talk about it here.

http://batintheattic.blogspot.com/2009/08/those-who-do-and-old-school-renaissance.html

QuoteSeveral years ago I created and developed through several version add-ons for the Orbiter Space Simulator. I specialized in recreating historical spacecraft so accurate you can use the original flight plans and toggle every switch.

The Orbiter Space Simulator community attracted a diverse crowd of fans and developers. Orbiter attracted space fans like a magnet because unlike just about every space simulator out there it is highly customizable.

Every so often flames wars would erupt among the participants in the various Orbiter forums. There were numerous reasons why most of them started, unimportant in retrospect. Those whose views shaped the community in the long run are those who DO. Not talk but DO by creating add-ons.

From about 2002 to 2005 my voice was a powerful influence in Orbiter Community. Because I released a half-dozen addons and consistently updated them. Today my opinion may be read but it doesn't carry as much weight. Why? Because since 2006 there are those in the Orbiter Community that DO far more than I have in the past 3 years.

And you know what? It is OK. Various things happened that to cause my hobby time to shift away from Orbiter development, mostly because now I am writing stuff for you guys.

What does any of this has to do with the Old School Renaissance?

Simply if you want to shape the OSR you can't just write about it you have to DO. You have to make stuff for people to use. The experience of Orbiter taught me that those do the work shape the community far more than those who just talk about the community.

This is not a criticism of those who like to talk about the community. Many do it very well. Like James Maliszewski of Grognardia. or Jeff Rients of Jeff's Gameblog. As people it is natural we like to talk about what we do with others who share our interests. It also important because for those of us that DO it gives us feedback.

If you are a fan and feeling frustrated of not being heard then the best course is to make the product you want. Whether it is commerical or not, write it up and get it out there. Don't be concerned about what is the current fad or orthodoxy. Write it the way you want it written and make it your best work.

The definition of the Old School Renaissance will be created by those who DO.