I only managed to get halfway through, but it seemed like the interviewer felt out of his depth, which was a shame. Ron Edwards really needed challenging on his definitions of brain damage, incoherence and the function of the golden rule. It's understandable though, he's had years to perfect his spiele and the support of many in refining it.

Interesting, in a "look at the funny man talk" kind of a way, but from bits I did listen to it seemed like the bloke is so entrenched in his beliefs that he's lost perspective on what people are actually doing with the games he has such problems understanding.

All the "goth subculture" crap was exactly that.

Well.

He did explain german-german history to us. And talked to us like we were schoolchildren.

There was heavy eyerolling going on.

Later I was told, one of his german satrapes tried to stop him, unsuccesfully.

And this happens all the time: He´ll speak with enthusiastic importance of his own enlightenment in areas others have long, long, long time ago explored.
There is no intellectual modesty in him, and this makes him make totally ridiculous statements.

See, lack of modesty is not a bad thing in itself. But if it´s coupled with serious lack of knowledge and obliviousness to the thoughts of other people.
 
I can express it much better in german:

http://hofrat.blogspot.com/search?q=spione

look for "We´re off to see the wizard!"

When I met him, it really was a Wizard of Oz moment. He has not even played in a decent adventure gaming campaign, let alone GMed one!
I was shaken, indeed.
He doesn´t understand D&D or Rifts. He can´t think outside of what he calls "story", but should be called thematic gaming. He will tell otherwise, but from what he says, you can quickly point out, that he hasn´t experienced what 99% of happy gamers have experienced.

The real moment of loss of intellectual respect was one in direct personal conversation involving politics. To honour the situation, I´ll just say that he came across politically naivé in the grandest manner.

I am told there were other situations like these involving his satrapes, and all I and they did back then was smile and nod.

Listening to the interview:

OMFG!
He does it again!

US-TV and cinema and story.

It´s pathetic.

Northern Exposure.
Cowboy Bebop.
Star Wars

How can anyone take him seriously?

EDIT: He´s brain damaged from reading comic books. He thinks everything is a parable, that action is irrelevant and only a vehicle for some third rate and cheesy guy´s soap opera. Like Supers comics.
It´s this simple. You can explain all of Ron with that.

Oh, now I see what you mean... that's interesting. I should listen to it after all.

Too bad I have to go to the library now and read some actual B.O.O.K.S.

I kind of stopped listening after hearing his...extremely idiosyncratic definition of story (yeah, I'm in a charitable mood today...).

That's pretty typical Ron, I think. If a game sells better than his (or has a larger fanbase than his) it becomes a target. That it manages to achieve such success using ideas that he has repeatedly decried as being 'broken' or 'wrong' only makes him sound more bitter.

In this interview he not only attacks a game more successful than anything he has ever written as boasting flawed design only because it succeeded by doing things in a different manner than the one that he prescribes -- he also attacks its fanbase as being pathetic goth wannabes looking to get laid. Over and over again.

This is all unfortunate because this bitter resentment overshadows the few really sensible things that he has to say. Ron doesn't speak -- he preaches. And that alienates a lot of his potential audience. His tendency to openly attack the character of those who don't do things his way doesn't help him very much.

Quote from: SettembriniHe´s brain damaged from reading comic books. He thinks everything is a parable, that action is irrelevant and only a vehicle for some third rate and cheesy guy´s soap opera. Like Supers comics.
It´s this simple. You can explain all of Ron with that.

Back up there a sec, pardner.  I'm brain damaged from reading comics books, too.  Comics aren't the issue here.  Ditto TV.  Most of the material for my games comes from so-called trash culture.  That stuff can feed into a very satisfying D&D game.

Settembrini,

What do you make of Ron's actual play reports on Tunnels & Trolls? They seem to be an 'off data point' for your overall interpretation.

Quote from: JohnnyWannabeWhy all this talk about Ron Edwards? He's not special. He's just another nerdy game designer with some outlandish opinions. That's damn common if you ask me. As for the pod cast . . . I got bored listening to it after about two minutes.

Yep I agree.

He is an idiot and the only brain damaged gamer I can think of is him.

Ignore Ron, he is a kook and the more attention he is given the worse he seems to get.

He is irrelevant to gaming (Both Indie and Non-Indie).

Quote from: jdrakehThat's pretty typical Ron, I think. If a game sells better than his (or has a larger fanbase than his) it becomes a target. That it manages to achieve such success using ideas that he has repeatedly decried as being 'broken' or 'wrong' only makes him sound more bitter.

In this interview he not only attacks a game more successful than anything he has ever written as boasting flawed design only because it succeeded by doing things in a different manner than the one that he prescribes -- he also attacks its fanbase as being pathetic goth wannabes looking to get laid. Over and over again.

Sounds like someone who is jealous of other peoples success.

It's pathetic when a person has such a low self-esteem that they have to attack other successful people/game designers to make themselves better.

QuoteBack up there a sec, pardner. I'm brain damaged from reading comics books, too. Comics aren't the issue here. Ditto TV. Most of the material for my games comes from so-called trash culture. That stuff can feed into a very satisfying D&D game.

Yeah, I know.
But only if you take the action and adventure in it it at face value!

If you cut only the "story" (== soap-trash) out, and elevated it to the thing "superhero comics are really about and they are relevant in this function", your gaming and your "brain" would suffer.

In short: Trash culture is not the problem. The problem is with people, who think the real value of trash culture lies within the themes and "story" brought up in it. Whereas the themes and "story" in there are mostly an excuse for BigExplosionsTM or CrazyCrossoverTM.
At the very least one can rightfully say that mass culture creators aren´t  using sophisticated techniques for adressing themes and story. I´d go even so far as that it´s mass appeal relies on the triteness and repetitivity of storytelling in mass media.
Which is especially depressing when there is no adventure stuff or explodey stuff involved = Grey´s Anatomy, Northern Exposure, Friends.

And I cannot imagine a Jeff Rients who blogs that he reads the X-Men because of the strong political undercurrents and the exploration of the human condition.

The Jeff I know, would rather post a pic of a BigExplosionTM on his blog.

Because BigExplosions is what Comics are good at.

Quote from: Elliot WilenI believe the definition of indie at the Forge is the same one used by the indie roleplaying awards. Essentially, it means that the game's copyright is owned by someone who has written 50% or more of the game. There are complications involving licensing. But basically, by the Forge's definition, Marco, Clash, Hinterwelt, Atomic Sock Monkey Press (Chad U.) all have "indie" products.

I have been told, point blank, at GTS 5 or 6 years ago that HinterWelt is not Indie. Since then, I have happily referred to myself as small press.

Bill

Quote from: Blue DevilSounds like someone who is jealous of other peoples success.

Yes, it does.

I've heard him damn D&D and Vampire for the better part of a decade. I've yet to hear him explain why these games are bad outside of the fact that they don't do things the way that he likes to do them (personally). This interview is a great example of what I'm talking about. His Fantasy Heartreaker essay is another.

In said essay (which I've been known to defend), Ron makes some valid points (e.g., that innovation itself isn't a compelling reason for a game to exist). That said, most of these points are buried under a steaming heap of "It sucks because I say so!". Most people who read it see only the steaming heap and that is what's unfortunate.

And, as he does in the interview, Ron alludes to the fact that most of the good bits in popular, mainstream, games are accidental. As if it is impossible that anybody other than Ron could have a good idea. It's this kind of attitude that puts people off of the Forge and much of the product that comes out of there. Which is ironic, because. . .

Lately Ron has taken it upon himself to divide the Forge into "Us" (people who kowtow entirely to Ron's will) and "Them" (people who dare question things that he says) camps. I think that he's calling them 1st Generation Contributors and 2nd Generation Contributors, but he recently made it very clear that the new ways aren't his way and, therefore, are wrong.

While I agree with some of what he said in the series of threads where this division was set up (specifically that people shouldn't publish games simply because they can), I cringed when I saw him draw that line in the sand. The Forge is clearly not about forward motion now (whether it ever has been is another topic entirely, but it clearly is not now).

Quote from: HinterWeltI have been told, point blank, at GTS 5 or 6 years ago that HinterWelt is not Indie. Since then, I have happily referred to myself as small press.

Indie, Small Press, Vanity ---- it's all the same to me. Debating the merits or classifications of each for 10 pages worth of posts is ludicrous and highly annoying, yet unavoidable on just about every forum. All this because some people prefer to use Ron's self-defined vision of Indie...

Quote from: pigames.netIndie, Small Press, Vanity ---- it's all the same to me. Debating the merits or classifications of each for 10 pages worth of posts is ludicrous and highly annoying, yet unavoidable on just about every forum. All this because some people prefer to use Ron's self-defined vision of Indie...

Don;t worry, I am not hung up on definitions. I just wanted to be clear that according to the man who coined the term, my company is not. If everyone wants to debate what the differences are for hundreds of pages, that up to them.

Bill