Quote from: RPGPundit;625207Yeah, I don't think the problem with MHR is that its rules-lite.

RPGPundit

what problem?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;625219Does that include all powers?

No, they were defined in either the GM book or on the character sheet in MSH core. Possibly both.

Quote from: Bill;625221Being a comic book and superhero fan I was quite excited when I got a copy of MHRP; I was very enthusiastic.

Then, I discovered the pure screaming horror of 'battle of the dice pools' and my dreams were crushed.

I like the core mechanic of MHRP but then it jumps off a cliff for no reason with metagame stuff.

I know at least one gamer that likes it, but it does not work for me.

So sad.

Pretty much my experience. OTOH, we've had 3 really good Marvel systems so far, so I saw no need for a new one.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;625222what problem?

Read: "problem for anyone who wants to play an RPg and not a storygame or who gives a crap about immersive play". If those two things aren't what you want, then no problem I guess.

Because of the tastes of the people with whom I regularly play -- most of whom choked, for instance, on 3E D&D -- I'm not likely to be in the market for anything as centrally and player-facingly rules-heavy as a lot of popular RPGs.

Stuff that's easily decoupled from what the players need to handle is another matter. The Arduin Grimoire series, the original Dungeon Masters Guide, the Tri Tac games (e.g., Fringeworthy), and other books full of such bits and bobs have appealed to me.

Quote from: RandallS;625074That's actually likely to turn me off right there. I prefer systems with simple rules (and not many of them) that allow me to create my own campaign setting. I'm less likely to be interested in games with lots of rules or very detailed settings and I'm seldom interested in games with lots of both.

I can get behind this statement.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;625222what problem?

The problem of it not being an RPG.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;625410The problem of it not being an RPG.

RPGPundit

and you still can't define why. Nor have you read or played it.

Did FASERIP ever need that table? Could it not have been done without it?

I cant remeber if it was easier than DC Heroes, but I do remember the sheer amount of content that DC gave you.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;625457Did FASERIP ever need that table? Could it not have been done without it?

I cant remeber if it was easier than DC Heroes, but I do remember the sheer amount of content that DC gave you.

FASERIP could have been done without the table, I suppose, using some hideous system where each stat level has two values, one used as a dice roll modifier and one for resolution. Then you'd end up with Monstrous (for example) giving a +40 to all rolls, with a modified roll of 65 or more being Green, 95+ being Yellow, and you'd probably have to drop the way the yellow band grows on the chart and just call Red 125+. Then you'd fall back to the traditional value of Monstrous (75) for your effect.

But that's an overly complex system that you'd only ever pursue if you had a phobic reaction to the use of look up tables. Which describes most modern RPG designers, so I suppose someone will doubtless use it at some point. (Bias Alert: I always found universal table games like MSH, DC Heroes and Torg to be perfectly speedy in play, and find it regrettable that they're so totally out of fashion now).

FASERIP basic is a lot simpler than DC Heroes (MEGS). The main advantages of MEGS are the better scaling and the cool initiative rules they had (using pre-action declarations, another deeply out of fashion mechanic).

EDIT: Of course, in many cases your action FEAT is using a different stat to your effect FEAT. But you'd still need both the die adjustment and the effect values on each stat for the different cases.

I like to note a pattern I found in one of my favorite video game publishers, SEGA.

They'll make games with very simple controls, but expect a level of finesse that builds upon itself. Ultimately the best players are masters of finesse for these simple controls. With basic tools that build upon each other and a wide canvas, true complexity can be accomplished.

Ever seen someone go from Crazy Taxi beginner, to after Crazy Box practice, go to Crazy Taxi insane master? Or note how you go from Jet Set Radio beginner and end the game by pulling stunts that blow you away? Yeah, that. That's what I like.

I need another rule set like I need more bulk mail advertisements. However, I'll gladly welcome it at home if it's KISS designed and develops complex mastery through experience. A whole bunch of complex controls sometimes only means a whole bunch of complex controls.

Nowadays, I'd rather sift through the ones with simple controls to find that magical one with high finesse.

Quote from: Grymbok;625469FASERIP basic is a lot simpler than DC Heroes (MEGS). The main advantages of MEGS are the better scaling and the cool initiative rules they had (using pre-action declarations, another deeply out of fashion mechanic).

EDIT: Of course, in many cases your action FEAT is using a different stat to your effect FEAT. But you'd still need both the die adjustment and the effect values on each stat for the different cases.

What are the initiative rules?

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;625484What are the initiative rules?

In MEGS initiative, you declare actions in reverse Speed order (or whatever the initiative stat is), but then act in Speed order. This allows for things like the GM to declare that Captain Cold will shoot hostages with his cold gun, but then the Flash gets to declare his action that he will take Captain Cold's gun off him. The Flash goes first, and so if he succeeds Captain Cold's action is now invalid.

It's not suitable for everything but works well for the back and forth of comics and speedster characters in particular.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;625457Did FASERIP ever need that table? Could it not have been done without it?

I cant remeber if it was easier than DC Heroes, but I do remember the sheer amount of content that DC gave you.

FASERIP could be converted to a D20 roll pretty easily, but you gave up alot of the granularity of the system. OTOH, with the table, its still one of the fastest systems ever designed, so the desire to get rid of it is probably more of an aesthetic thing.

MEGs is a great system as well, but is crunchier. I love both, but FASERIP was specifically geared towards Rulings vs Rules play, while MEGs is more for those who want a solid system like HERO for their supers games...without actually having to deal with Hero's ruleset.

I played Bloodbowl (Team Manager) last night and the dice mechanic there made me think how it could translate:

essentially if you have two players going toe to toe to try and tackle you roll custom dice (to give specific results - nothing, defender knocked down, attacker knocked down). However if your guy is stronger you roll two such dice and pick the result; if you're equal, you roll one. If you're weaker, then you roll both and the opponent picks the result.

So maybe:

PC vs weaker NPC - roll 2d, pick the result. If even, NPC takes a hit.
NPC vs weaker PC roll 2d, GM picks the result. If odd, PC takes a hit.