You get a new game. It's a big book (not too big, a few hundred pages - the usual), has a detailed setting. Nothing off putting there. But if you find the rules are very simple, and not very detailed, do you feel a bit short changed? Does the size of the game, the detail of the background, require a cerain minimum detail of rules? If your character is defined in very simple terms - no reflection on the quality of the rules mind you - with very little rules detail, is that enough?

Personally, I would prefer a simple rules set in the first few chapters, or perhaps the first chapter, and then setting stuff to fill the book.

I have seen enough supplements that contain all the rules for a game, even though they use a generic system, so that it is a self-contained game. Fine for those who only buy that, not fine for those who have bought several versions of said generic game with several supplements.

As I now only use one or two rules systems for my gaming, I am interested in supplements that use the rules inventively and map the rules to the setting requirements. Those should have a "Uses the Rules, available from " statement and then notes about how to use the rules in that setting, then chapters and chapters of setting material.

The minimum amount of simplicity I like is in D&D or Classic Traveller. 6 or so stats and some skills (or a class).

The Fantasy Trip (and later GURPs) always bugged me by only having 4 stats. Str, Dex, Stamina, and IQ

I'm fine with a "lite" rules set...in fact I prefer it. As long as it covers everything necessary for the game and it isn't a matter of trying to split up the rules over a series of sourcebooks.

Simple to moderate length rules work great for me. When I was a kid, I loved complex stuff, but I am just not interested in learning yet another complicated game.

I can handle a wide range in terms of how much rules are in a book. For me it really depends on the game.

Quote from: danbuter;624533Simple to moderate length rules work great for me. When I was a kid, I loved complex stuff, but I am just not interested in learning yet another complicated game.

As I get older I tend toward simple as well. Still  crave some crunch and complexity once in a while, but something that is light and quick definitely feels a bit more natural these days.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;624523You get a new game. It's a big book (not too big, a few hundred pages - the usual), has a detailed setting. Nothing off putting there. But if you find the rules are very simple, and not very detailed, do you feel a bit short changed? Does the size of the game, the detail of the background, require a cerain minimum detail of rules? If your character is defined in very simple terms - no reflection on the quality of the rules mind you - with very little rules detail, is that enough?

First i would like to define what may be called "Rules".
Core Rules is everything that is needed to resolve skill rolls, combat, and so on.
Complimentary rules are optional, or like resources.
Those are like the long list of spells that can be done, with some specific rules for some spells, or an advanced list of combat moves.

No matter how big the gamebook is, i prefer the core rules to be short, easy, and un-complicated.
However, if i buy a book on several hundred pages, then i expect my share of "complimentary rules", be they descriptions of a lot of spells, fighting moves, traits, and/or info about the world it is set in, with possible enemies, NPC's, and so on.

Quote from: danbuter;624533Simple to moderate length rules work great for me. When I was a kid, I loved complex stuff, but I am just not interested in learning yet another complicated game.

I am in a similar spot.  I will make an exception if the complexity drastically improves gameplay.  That seems to be a rare occurrence, though.  Usually complexity makes it harder to play as you need to remember more things to engage in game activity.

I'm not sure I'd buy an RPG in the first place that was more than 200 pages at this point.

I like simple games, as long as the game feels substantial for what I pay for it. Don't gild the lily so to speak and make it complex to fill pages. Nor should one write too much and not leave me any setting areas to make my own.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;624523You get a new game. It's a big book (not too big, a few hundred pages - the usual), has a detailed setting. Nothing off putting there.

Well, actually, this is off putting for me. I kind of get more and more weary of several hundred pages to read just to get into a new game that does the same thing a billion other games did before, "only better." I like it more and more sweet and short on the rules, heavy on the actual play material (and I do NOT mean "the fluff" or "background info" by this. I mean the material that is actually meant to be played at a game table instead). I'm purchasing more modules and adventures than ever before, as a result.

I really do have a certain amount of crunch, below which it's no longer much fun to me because I can't quite feel the advantage over going freeform. Doesn't have to be a lot of crunch, I mean MERP or Rolemaster 2e with secondary skills is fine, but I want to have some knobs that do SOMETHING.

A separate but related issue is that I like rules reflecting the game reality to some degree (and, by and large, dislike purely narrative rules). For instance I like Dragon Warriors for the simple system it is but if I have a Knight and so does the player to my left then the Knights are basically the same character on paper (could be literally the same depending on stat rolls). But they're completely different in game reality! Hence, the dissonance.

If that even makes sense to anyone else.

Quote from: Catelf;624545First i would like to define what may be called "Rules".

Ok, what i'm really referring to is character detail: the mechanics that detail characters, stats, powers, weird attributes/aspects, etc.

If you have a detailed setting and a big book that's lavish and lovely, is it bit odd to then have next to no rules to detail your character?

I can enjoy a wide variety of rules complexity.  

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