Thanks, that clarifies a lot. Unfortunately, I'm not able to help much since I don't know SW (WEG or D20). And secondly, while I can take or leave the idea of awarding XP or "plot points" for "moral" behavior, it's a bit of an oxymoron to reward "amoral" behavior.

At most I'd think of maybe letting each player define a set of beliefs or (maybe better) urges for their character, which they get XP for acting on.

Quote from: Serious PaulThe problem I am having is basically this: Star Wars is a game set up around the idea of a "Hero". The players and I are not playing a heroic game at all: they are murderers, thieves, and much worse. The goal in the game is not for them to redeem themselves or save people, they will be paid to kill, rape and torture.

Can I say it? Can I?

Dude, you're not playing Star Wars. You should find another game that suits your playstyle. Get Traveller or GURPS Space or something.

Here's what I would do:

Get rid of Dark Side points. Your players' characters aren't turning to the Dark Side of the Force any more than Jabba the Hutt is. If you want to give them points for their actions, have them acquire a reputation. Key elements:

1) They have to do something well. Reward them for really high die rolls when they ply their trades.

2) They can't be seen as schmucks. Punish then for miserable rolls.

So now it's not good vs. evil, it's excellence vs. mediocrity.

3) They need people to spread their infamy, so don't award points if there's nobody left to talk about "that terrible night."

4) Divide the rep between planets or races or organizations. They can only spend their rep points when dealing with that faction. Frex, the crew robbed the Hutts of a small fortune in...oh hell, dyed wookie scalps, I don't know. They pulled off the job but left a heap of bodies in their wake.

+ points of rep with the Hutts (treacherous scum!)
+ points of rep with the Mos Eisley criminals (violent fuckers!)
+ points of rep with the local fences (messy but dependable)
+ points of rep with the Wookie elders of Kashykk (despoilers of our dead!)

So now you've got four factions tied to the players' characters, each with a general attitude about those characters. The Hutts are pissed, the freelance thugs of Mos Eisley are shitting their pants, the local fences will hire them but not for finesse jobs and the Wookies are probably sending some weird tribal spirit hunter to reclaim the scalps.

I don't own Traveler, and Star Wars is the system my players have settled on. So as much as I may want to buy what you're selling, I like my group and our games. So I'm afraid I'm fresh out of purchasing power for the moment.

I'll look into the rest of suggestions, but most of them seem a bit too much for our style of gaming.

I don't really know the SW system, so I'll try again in a generic sense:

It's not so much about "punishment" as it is complication.

Whenever a person acts entirely out of character there's usually a whole set of complications-- the thwarted expectations of friends and allies, the attention of the authorities ("I wonder if your feelings on this matter are altogether clear, Lord Vader...") and all sorts of other stuff that I'm sure you can come up with on your own. Complication, challenge and conflict are the driving force of traditional RPG's, and as a GM I always try to keep them in mind when figuring out the the consequences of the pc's actions.

Of course, there has to be payoffs at certain points. Having every victory give rise to yet another dilemma soon robs the players of any real sense of accomplishment. Just keep in mind that exciting and dangerous consequences-- particularly which result from acting against type --are one of the best ways of maintaining a well paced campaign where the players feel their actions actually matter.

EDIT: Maybe you can shift the XP system to awarding stuff for player defined goals, with some general combat related and "story" awards thrown in too.

Quote from: Serious PaulOne major obstacle is that you don't award XP for the same things-yes some of it is obviously the same, but some of it differs. Another is in how we should view dark side points. (Since they've already murdered do they get points for a body count? Or do they have to be really clever in how they get there?) Destinies are a bit easier, but so on and so forth.

I'd award XP in a typical d20 fashion: rewards for challenges overcome. No rewards for eating that baby, since it wasn't a challenge. Beating Chewbacca's big brother in a knife fight so you could eat him? XP all the way.

For Dark Side Points I'd follow the book. If they're force sensitive and headed towards the dark side, let them go. It's got its own pitfalls (like stat deterioration) so it's not a free ride to Power city. Also, if you're playing in an era of "One Master, One Pupil" you'll be engendering some interparty conflict once they get powerful enough to be noticed and sought out for padewan status.

Imagine the fun when Emporer Palpatine sends a message letting them know that the most powerful amongst them will be brought under his wing, but they must prove their worthiness.