Quote from: camazotz;353597Damnit all this post is doing is giving me a wicked urge to pick up Ultimate Rifts and give it a spin.

I'm not too fond of the heavy-handed approach Kev takes to his books; his authorial voice intrudes when I don't want it there....but I still have fond nostalgic memories of my years playing Palladium Fantasy, and I know I would like to play/run Rifts, if I could just muster up the effort to wade through the rules-confusion it will inevitably cause....does any Palladium book ever adequately describe not only how to dodge but how to parry, anywhere? Last time I looked at one of their books (Dead Reign) I was unfortunately not surprised to see that it still seemed to overlook describing even certain basic mechanics, such as how you actually parry, how to order multiple actions from combatants, and so forth...my memory is  a bit foggy though, and I don't own the books anymore, but those bits seem to surface up when I think about it.

Sorry for the Necro-bump but this caught my eye.

I actually don't understand your question about parrying in Palladium.  I've always thought parrying was pretty well described from the original Robotech RPG onward.  But to put it simply, parrying in Palladium is to use an object to block an attack.  To do this, the defender must roll higher than the attacker on a 20 sided die.  Dodge works exactly the same way, however they have clarified that one can only use Dodge once in a round, and that Dodge counts against all incoming attacks.  The idea being; You see a group of bad guys with guns and dive behind a robot's leg for cover.  All of those attackers have to roll to attack against that single dodge roll.

simple and to the point.  I've never understood why people say the rules are broken.  It's usually either people who have never played the game (I don't even know how many times I've seen some jackass insist that some insane bullshit was an actual rule and it wasn't), or people who played a game with an extremely bad/lazy/stupid GM.

Quote from: The Butcher;351869I have nothing against the MDC mechanic. Of course, something like the "heavy armor" rule from Savage Worlds does the same thing, in a considerably simpler manner, but I don't find MDC particularly clunky and of itself.

The real problem with MDC is that it's overused. Nearly everything that crawls out of a rift is MDC. The fauna of Rifts Earth is teeming with effectively indestructible transdimensional animals, which should raise several interesting questions about ecology.

Of course, the height of siliness was reached in Wormwood, with MDC humans.

MDC in and of itself is not a bad concept, it's just way overused. It should have been saved for dragons, greater demons, alien intelligences and other really big supernatural heavy-hitters.

Exactly.  The last time I picked up a Rifts book was many ages of man prior, but I recall seeing a vibro-knife that did MDC damage.  I am likely recalling incorrectly, and I didn't get into the game enough to really see how it played out.

But a switchblade that could cut a tank in half?  Definitely overused.
(Caveat:  I am/was unaware of the different 'scales' of MDC, so that may have been part of my disconnect)

Overall, however, I do think it is a fairly elegant mechanic.  While a bit on the blunt side, it addressed the problem of Batman vs Superman without resorting to algorithmic scales or conceptually difficult numbers to work with.  As Ian notes:

Quote from: Ian Absentia;351866The only time I had a problem with MDC was  when scale wasn't consistent.

A persistent problem, then, but with a fairly simple solution had it been implemented.  Let us praise Mr Siembieda for never succumbing to the hobgoblins of foolish consistency.  

The Rifts Conversion Book could give humans MDC way before Wormwood - you could convert a martial artist from Mystic China and the "Wrist Hardening" technique was worth 4 MDC...:cool: Not much compared to some of the Heroes Unlimited super powers or even being a mutant dinosaur, but hey at least your super-tough wrists help regular machinegun rounds bounce off.

On the necrotangent: I never thought Parry was overly hard to understand. I was caught by the Pundit not knowing that using "Roll with Punch/Fall" cost an attack, though...(in the thread Skofflox started that crashed and burned after a double derail, with much profanity and Starblazers).

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;407682The Rifts Conversion Book could give humans MDC way before Wormwood - you could convert a martial artist from Mystic China and the "Wrist Hardening" technique was worth 4 MDC...:cool: Not much compared to some of the Heroes Unlimited super powers or even being a mutant dinosaur, but hey at least your super-tough wrists help regular machinegun rounds bounce off.

On the necrotangent: I never thought Parry was overly hard to understand. I was caught by the Pundit not knowing that using "Roll with Punch/Fall" cost an attack, though...(in the thread Skofflox started that crashed and burned after a double derail, with much profanity and Starblazers).

The Rift's conversion book was probably written in one sitting and went to print without being edited.

Interestingly, Zenjorki powers from N&S has their Chi cost quadrupled, even though they don't cost anything to use.

Quote from: Cranewings;407696The Rift's conversion book was probably written in one sitting and went to print without being edited.

Interestingly, Zenjorki powers from N&S has their Chi cost quadrupled, even though they don't cost anything to use.

Are you suggesting that there might be a... quality control issue at Palladium games?

Quote from: Tetsubo;407697Are you suggesting that there might be a... quality control issue at Palladium games?

No, I would never, ever, dare slander, badmouth, or look cross eyed at Palladium. Fuck, they have sued 5 year olds. They would kill me.

Quote from: Cranewings;407698No, I would never, ever, dare slander, badmouth, or look cross eyed at Palladium. Fuck, they have sued 5 year olds. They would kill me.

Thankfully, the Palladium 'hit team' is also manned by 5 year olds. Clumsy, 5 year olds...

Quote from: Ian Absentia;351908In Siembieda's defense with regard to the Robotech series, it may not have been physics he was trying to simulate.  As portrayed in the shows, Cyclones were virtually as tough as full-sized mecha.  While it seemed a little hinky at times (I would've liked to see Cyclones on a middle-step of MDC), it was largely in keeping with the action one saw in the shows, which didn't appear to be particularly devoted to simulating real world physics.

!i!

Yeah, they all blew up in one hit!
(unless you had a valiant NPC death, or were a PC; then you 'crash-landed')

Quote from: pawsplay;352073First, you can't cut off someone's arm with a vibroblade, however carefully. Even a single point of MDC turns someone into mist.

Well...
1) You can always turn the vibro-field off, and use it as a regular knife.
2) I'm not sure I can blame the designer for figuring if someone's using a vibro-weapon, they might not be using it in such a way intended to damage but NOT kill their SDC opponent. I mean you could Disarm the poor bastard, without dis-'arm'ing them...

QuoteSecond, light combat armor can have MDC, which means a guy in a freakin' padded suit with a non-sealed helmet can get hit in the chest with a cruise missile and walk away from it.

A cruise missile may not be the best example (since I think the lightest does 4d6x10 MD), but an Incendiary Grenade works (4d6 MD, IIRC).

And I've had GM's that rules that such weapons work against target directly, that don't have environmental armor (making it a favorite of Coalition troopers).

Quote from: StormBringer;407669But a switchblade that could cut a tank in half?  Definitely overused.

Remember, in RIFTS, vibro-weapons are analogous to lightsabers, i.e. given time, they'll cut through anything.

Quote from: Tetsubo;407697Are you suggesting that there might be a... quality control issue at Palladium games?

I'm more interested if you're implying they HAVE quality control at Palladium. ;p

Quote from: Cranewings;407696The Rift's conversion book was probably written in one sitting and went to print without being edited.

Interestingly, Zenjorki powers from N&S has their Chi cost quadrupled, even though they don't cost anything to use.

Awesome.
That'd be alot of coffee to do in one sitting, but I could believe the 'no editing'. Partly to blame here could be that the Conversion Book was Siembieda while the oriental books were Erick Wujcik's (I said Mystic China last post, but I actually meant Ninjas & SUperspies; oops).

Also on the conversion book: does anyone else look at the Cyber Horseman of Ixion and go "WTF?".

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;407741Also on the conversion book: does anyone else look at the Cyber Horseman of Ixion and go "WTF?".

You mean "WTF" as in "WTF CYBORG CENTAUR WITH BIONIC SCHLONG"?

If so, yes. :eek:

Quote from: Novastar;407723Remember, in RIFTS, vibro-weapons are analogous to lightsabers, i.e. given time, they'll cut through anything.

That would make more sense, but I've always understood 'vibro-blade' (in general terms) to be something along the lines of an electric bread knife made out of adamantium, or ceramic alloys, or whatever the hardest material is in the game.

Quote from: The Butcher;407742You mean "WTF" as in "WTF CYBORG CENTAUR WITH BIONIC SCHLONG"?

If so, yes. :eek:

That's the one!
I tried convincing myself he's just wearing form-fitting Black Russian style armour over it, but I'm really suspicious its a laser.

Quote from: The Butcher;407742You mean "WTF" as in "WTF CYBORG CENTAUR WITH BIONIC SCHLONG"?

If so, yes. :eek:

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;407751That's the one!
I tried convincing myself he's just wearing form-fitting Black Russian style armour over it, but I'm really suspicious its a laser.

I heard that the Punisher had a similar weapon at one time.

Quote from: StormBringer;407753I heard that the Punisher had a similar weapon at one time.

I think this should be the new standard image for when someone goes "show me on the doll where the bad GM touched you..."

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;407775I think this should be the new standard image for when someone goes "show me on the doll where the bad GM touched you..."

:rotfl:
A winner is you.