There are many mechanics in many games that I think of as "a bit of a shortcut, but in the end, it works."

I do not put MDC in this category. I find it a bit TOO unsatisfying, and if I were to occasion to play RIFTS again soon, I'd be sorely tempted to whip out my house rule scalpel.

Mekton Zeta and The World of Synnibarr achieve the same results in a far more consistent and manageable manner.  The Mega-Damage concept does not work very well in practice due to Siembieda's lax workmanship.

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;351895Mekton Zeta and The World of Synnibarr achieve the same results in a far more consistent and manageable manner.  The Mega-Damage concept does not work very well in practice due to Siembieda's lax workmanship.

Why?

I've never played RIFTS so maybe I'm missing some history and possible abuses and mangling of the MDC/SDC system, but it seems entirely reasonable to me: little tiny stuff, no matter how lethal to a squishy human (think .22 bullets, baseball bat blows, knife stabs) are utterly ineffective against massively armored targets.  You can chip away at an Abrams' front glacis all day long with a Weatherby .22 squirrel gun.  There is no critical, no cumulative damage (not in your lifetime), nothing that you can do with that rifle that's going to make the Abrams crew (or Veritech pilot, or M.A.C.-II crew, etc. etc.) so much as flinch.  Period.  Hit it once, hit it a thousand times, it will not give.

One RPG-14, however?  Yeah, that's gonna need some bondo and paint to fix.

Battletech either fails miserably (by allowing a puny rifle to knock down an Atlas on a good roll) or succeeds wildly by representing cinematic flair, in doing what Robotech does admirably.

Even the Silhouette combat system doesn't do so well (enough massed rifle fire will bring down any target, which is just silly).

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;351895Mekton Zeta and The World of Synnibarr achieve the same results in a far more consistent and manageable manner.  The Mega-Damage concept does not work very well in practice due to Siembieda's lax workmanship.

Yeah, I think that's the key point...it could work, but it doesn't because the implementation is sloppy or untested (or both).

Quote from: thedungeondelver;351900Why?

Siembieda fails at physics.  The original use was in the original Macross book for Robotech.  Only mecha had, including tanks and aircraft, had (and could do) Mega-Damage.  Starting with Southern Cross, infantry had the same capabilities as tanks; this is when it broke, and it only got worse with Invid Invasion/Sentinels.  RIFTS continued the trend to this day; shit does not work as intended, because physics doesn't work that way.

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;351903Siembieda fails at physics.  The original use was in the original Macross book for Robotech.  Only mecha had, including tanks and aircraft, had (and could do) Mega-Damage.  Starting with Southern Cross, infantry had the same capabilities as tanks; this is when it broke, and it only got worse with Invid Invasion/Sentinels.  RIFTS continued the trend to this day; shit does not work as intended, because physics doesn't work that way.

In Siembieda's defense with regard to the Robotech series, it may not have been physics he was trying to simulate.  As portrayed in the shows, Cyclones were virtually as tough as full-sized mecha.  While it seemed a little hinky at times (I would've liked to see Cyclones on a middle-step of MDC), it was largely in keeping with the action one saw in the shows, which didn't appear to be particularly devoted to simulating real world physics.

!i!

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;351903Siembieda fails at physics.  The original use was in the original Macross book for Robotech.  Only mecha had, including tanks and aircraft, had (and could do) Mega-Damage.  Starting with Southern Cross, infantry had the same capabilities as tanks; this is when it broke, and it only got worse with Invid Invasion/Sentinels.  RIFTS continued the trend to this day; shit does not work as intended, because physics doesn't work that way.

I wish we had a 'go play Gurps' animated emoticon.

Needless complexity.

There's a lot I like about Rifts. What I don't like about Rifts is that scenes like the one appearing below, which shows everything that's wonderfully batshit insane about the Rifts setting, can't happen according to Rifts mechanics.

Good image. I will note that today we ran RIFTS, there were three big battles (two against Gargoyles, the third against Haydonites) and it was great.

RPGPundit

I despise the MDC mechanic. It leads to the issue of having a Glitterboy and a researcher type of PC in the same party and trying (and failing) to reconcile that difference in power levels. When a 'hold-out' pistol can blow out the entire wall of your average saloon, I see that as a problem.

I prefer how Savage Worlds and earlier editions of Gamma World handled the issues. They just flat out say, "Weapons below a certain power level, can't harm armored vehicles." Straight forward and simple.

If I were to ever run Rifts (which is about as likely as me flapping my arms and flying) I would drop the MDC mechanic and add a class of 'heavy weapons' to the game. Hold-out pistols would not be in that category.

Quote from: The Butcher;351869Of course, the height of siliness was reached in Wormwood, with MDC humans.

I wish Wormwood had been an SDC setting.

As for the OP, I have no problem with MDC really. I use a few optional rules for armor damage pass through to make things more interesting though. However, having every damn creature MDC is annoying. Oh well.

Quote from: Tetsubo;351941I despise the MDC mechanic. It leads to the issue of having a Glitterboy and a researcher type of PC in the same party and trying (and failing) to reconcile that difference in power levels. When a 'hold-out' pistol can blow out the entire wall of your average saloon, I see that as a problem.

I prefer how Savage Worlds and earlier editions of Gamma World handled the issues. They just flat out say, "Weapons below a certain power level, can't harm armored vehicles." Straight forward and simple.

If I were to ever run Rifts (which is about as likely as me flapping my arms and flying) I would drop the MDC mechanic and add a class of 'heavy weapons' to the game. Hold-out pistols would not be in that category.

One of the few characters I played as a RIFTS PLAYER rather than GM was a Rogue Scholar. An AWESOME class, very poor at anything to do with firepower. He was a non-combat character, and he ended up being immensely useful for the team.

The problem with your line of argument is that you set up this patently absurd supposition that every character MUST be equally good at fighting.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;352013One of the few characters I played as a RIFTS PLAYER rather than GM was a Rogue Scholar. An AWESOME class, very poor at anything to do with firepower. He was a non-combat character, and he ended up being immensely useful for the team.

The problem with your line of argument is that you set up this patently absurd supposition that every character MUST be equally good at fighting.

RPGPundit

It it's absurd to expect one player to have the survivability of an ant while another has the survivability of an elephant. The MDC mechanic is absurd in and of itself. I have no need to add any absurdity.

Quote from: RPGPundit;351840I notice its one of the biggest areas of complaint about Palladium, but I find it brilliant.

Does anyone else agree?

RPGPundit

MDC is fine. It's MDC ponchos with no A.R. that are the problem.