The Tolkeen wars were kind of dumb for the most part, to me a relatively low point in RIFTS sourcebooks (though not as low as RIFTS England or Africa). But at least there, it was pretty clear what was going on, and why, and what the point was, and what your PCs could do.
None of that is clear in the "Minion War" books. They're just like "suddenly, there's demons! Two groups of demons, fighting each other, and because of that, they're all over the multiverse! You get to fight demons!".
It seems so fucking pointless, and ultimately, the problem is that it seems to reduce the PCs to just damage control + spectators of a war that has fuck all to do with them.
RPGPundit
I'm not buying them. I also didn't buy the Tolkeen books, and don't plan to. I don't need metaplot.
We're starting Palladium coverage on the club's website since someone has started a game. We feel forced to limit ourselves pretty much to just a few of the ancient books we've picked up cheap on ebay.
I pretty much blasted Palladium for pretty much everything they do - the way they write, bind and market their lines. I even gave a few options that I and my club feel would revitalize the game, and would be successful at least in getting our money.
Of course this is based on what was going on with the company about 13-14 years ago, when I ended my support of those games. They just never got anywhere, and were basically oversized comic books. I don't like comic books.
I'm not sure how they expect to be taken seriously.
Are they the same as the demons from Palladium Fantasy? Because that would make them a cannon part of the Palladium Multiverse since the early eighties. Why they have taken an interest in Rifts is anyone's guess.
Quote from: David Johansen;443985Are they the same as the demons from Palladium Fantasy? Because that would make them a cannon part of the Palladium Multiverse since the early eighties. Why they have taken an interest in Rifts is anyone's guess.
Same demons. They're in RIFTS because RIFTS is the mothership of Palladium's IP empire and is the one guaranteed profit-maker brand in the company. These facts do, of course, combine to produce yet another up-gunned set of stat blocks as well as warmed-over 80s era metaphysics.
You say that like it's a bad thing!
I really haven't looked into much Palladium stuff past Federation of Magic and Psyscape.
Isn't it just a puked up rehash of the Blood War?
The Demon/Devil war thing goes through Heroes Unlimited, Rifts, Phase World, and Palladium Fantasy.
In fact, the "Minion War" started in the pages of Palladium Fantasy in the first Land of the Damned book by Bill Coffin.
Big Kev apparently thought Bill's subplot of an eternal, never-ending war between demons and devils (that was nothing more than back drop; yet another danger in the most dangerous place on the planet) was such a good idea that he had waste time and resources on books no one wants, instead of publishing books people have been demanding for decades.
For the record, the greatest Rifts game I ever played was based in Rifts Africa. I'll never forget being at the Gathering of Heroes with the Skull Squadron, Greek gods, X-men, Ninja Turtles.... and so on and on...
So they recreated the Blood War in Rifts? Bleh.
Except now you can fight demons while piloting your Glitter Boy!
They get a mega damage upgrade on Rifts Earth right? Because otherwise this'll be the shortest of conquest of hell ever and Emperor Prozac will be taking the throne from any silly heavy metal contenders in short order.
Which would be a pretty funny take on the thing. Though the Palladium demons take that form for the sake of presentation rather than being that way because that's what they are in side. I don't recall the actual distinctions between the demons and devils but I'm pretty sure they were at war as early as the first edtion Palladium Fantasy RPG.
Kevin Siembeda excels at crafting wide open, "sandbox" settings, and sucks big time at writing plots or metaplots.
Consistency isn't exactly Kevo's forte. This is a gift for some things (Rule of Cool and all), and a curse for others.
I have Dimensional Outbreak, the Phase World minion war book, and its pretty good. Lots of info on Center (the core mega-world of the 3 galaxies), bunch of new resources and lots of Space Demon stuff.
I like the Minion War because Phase World can get pretty gray, anti-hero and overwhelming in its scope. The Demons and Dyvals are very B/W which leads to some interesting "enemy of my enemy" dynamics as well as a chance to add some upheaval to the existing powers.
Is Minion Wars the most amazing thing ever? Nope, but as metaplot goes its better than Tolkeen Wars.
BTW, in defense of the Tolkeen Wars, those books have lots of cool goodies. I didn't buy them for years and on a whim ordered them all in a Grab Bag a couple years ago. Yes, the metaplot sucks, but the books are packed with lotsa nice beasties and toys for PCs and NPCs.
Yes, the Minion War series sucks major ass.
The war is a boring concept and there really isn't much for PCs to do with it.
For some bizarre reason, it crosses over into Heroes Unlimited for the fourth book despite every other book being for Rifts, more or less.
The first book was released in mid 2007. The second book took until April of 2009 to come out. As far as I can tell, the fourth book in the line was only recently released and the fifth one is still being developed.
Me, I stopped caring after I bought the first book and found it to be a useful pile of crap that had nothing I wanted and squandered a lot of opportunities to have something interesting.
Me personally I'm enjoying the series.
Dyval & Hades: Liked them for the setting info.
Dimensional Outbreak: Ran a very fun Phase World game with material from this book and thought it was a great addition to the setting.
Heroes of the Megaverse: Not used it yet, so no strong opinion.
Armageddon Unlimited: Plan to buy it next month, some of the stuff listed in the table of content in the preview looked interesting.
No interest in RIFTS, and metaplot products tend to turn me off anyway, so no.
(I do like Palladium Fantasy though.)
Its not genius, but I welcome the excuse it presents Carl Gleba for writing so much for Palladiumbooks, as I like what he writes. The Minion War itself is mostly of interest re: Phaseworld to me. And Dimensional Outbreak is an exceptional sourcebook for Phaseworld. bonus: closer connection between the Megaversal parts.
ADD: Heroes of the Megaverse, though, is one of the most touching products ever produced for any hobby game.
I checked out RIFTS cursorily, and I like what I see. I have no interest in metaplot whatsoever, though.
Quote from: jgants;444154The war is a boring concept and there really isn't much for PCs to do with it.
I like the concept. I liked it in Planescape with the Blood War and it really works for me in Phase World with "total evil vs. total evil spilling over and taking out innocents and the powers that be shift to take advantage of it all"
Plus, it provides "no guilt" killings. Like orcs and goblins in D&D. You never have to worry about "baby demons" or the morality of wholesale slaughter of demons. Every kill is a win for good and in a morally grey world like the Three Galaxies, its a boon for those players who want to be Big Damn Heroes.
Quote from: David Johansen;443985Are they the same as the demons from Palladium Fantasy? Because that would make them a cannon part of the Palladium Multiverse since the early eighties. Why they have taken an interest in Rifts is anyone's guess.
They are, and the demons in question have been a part of the RIFTS setting since basically its beginning. There is a huge permanent RIFT open over Calgary which has become the center of a massive Demon territory in North America. That's from the main book.
The original Conversion Book had stats for pretty much all the monsters from Palladium fantasy, including demons. And that book came out in 1991.
RPGPundit
Heh, I can totally see Emperor Prozac sitting around reading Milton and thinging "Better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven? OF COURSE! What better way to solve the world's problems!
Now someone needs to photoshop the AD&D A Paladin In Hell picture with a Glitter Boy.