Im working on a sci-fi setting with a bit or retro-tech (think 80s sci fi movies) and am theorizing an alternative history where the electronic revolution we enjoy today was stymied in the 80s for several reasons. The result is a future, space faring society, with no cellular networks, no internet, no micro-computers and the like but massive mainframes and DOS bound work stations, heavy and clunky mechanical based, rather than electronic, construction elements etc. Im not talking Steam Punk here, just a culture stuck in the "Aliens" movies for a frame or reference. To give credit where its due Im using the excellent Cepheus Engine/Traveller setting "Hostile" by Zozer games. (Good stuff there, you should check it out.)

What Im laboring with a bit is a contrived logic as to WHY technology took off in this new direction. I have a working list of historic events that explain the fall of solid state dominance but I dont have a working replacement. Vacuum tubes? Really?

Im not a tech-junky but Im betting some of you are. What kind of alternative, techno-babble laced, technology could replace the diode and the transistor in the construction of electronic equipment? What are the computers, control mechanisms, monitoring equipment, hell... radios, vehicles, and generally anything you can think of, built of if its not solid state, printed circuitry etc.?

Help?

Just throwing this out there. Some techno rambling version of Vacuum Tube application would probably work. Something large, heavy, power hungry but maybe a bit further on the developmental scale than the good old Triode. I was reading about NASA playing around with something called a vacuum channel transistor that looks like a possibility. Essentially it performs like an old vacuum tube but doesnt generate the heat and actually performs faster than a comparable solid state transistor. Its bigger of course, which is what Im looking for. Hmmm

Thoughts?

Quote from: rgrove0172;1039817Im working on a sci-fi setting with a bit or retro-tech (think 80s sci fi movies) and am theorizing an alternative history where the electronic revolution we enjoy today was stymied in the 80s for several reasons. The result is a future, space faring society, with no cellular networks, no internet, no micro-computers and the like but massive mainframes and DOS bound work stations, heavy and clunky mechanical based, rather than electronic, construction elements etc. Im not talking Steam Punk here, just a culture stuck in the "Aliens" movies for a frame or reference. To give credit where its due Im using the excellent Cepheus Engine/Traveller setting "Hostile" by Zozer games. (Good stuff there, you should check it out.)

What Im laboring with a bit is a contrived logic as to WHY technology took off in this new direction. I have a working list of historic events that explain the fall of solid state dominance but I dont have a working replacement. Vacuum tubes? Really?

Im not a tech-junky but Im betting some of you are. What kind of alternative, techno-babble laced, technology could replace the diode and the transistor in the construction of electronic equipment? What are the computers, control mechanisms, monitoring equipment, hell... radios, vehicles, and generally anything you can think of, built of if its not solid state, printed circuitry etc.?

Help?

A real man would use Babbage engines and spark-gap transmitters. (And don't forget the Battle of the Currents, either.)

Reread the original Foundation Trilogy for inspiration.

There is no reason Moore's Law can't reach major deceleration. Right now computers double in power every 3 years. What if Moore's law was based on 30 year cycles? Or 300 year cycles? AKA, what if we are currently reaching hard(ish) limits on computing power and must move forward with current tech? Thus, we would need the giant computers of Traveller to make space travel possible.

I had a Traveller GM who ruled "jump space fucks electronics", aka the computers needed major shielding to exist in any functional manner after a jump.  Thus, you could have badass tech on planets, but then everything goes kinda retro in space.

Also...I find most players are cool with Traveller's tech wobbles.

You do realize that 'solid state electronics' has been around since the 80's, right?  When Nintendo came out with the game cartridge for it's new console.  All the SSD and USB keys are refinements on that technology.  One thing you need to realize is that once humanity creates something, we try to make it more efficient and compact.  So if you're sticking to vacuum tubes and the like, the technology will still shrink, no longer will their be house sized calculators, they'll still be palm sized.  Or as close to it as physically possible.  Because the point is to make as convenient as possible, and room sized rigs just are not.

Quote from: chirine ba kal;1039827A real man would use Babbage engines and spark-gap transmitters. (And don't forget the Battle of the Currents, either.)

Star Frontiers is a bit like that. Some of the tech like computers is fairly bulky, in part because of the immense calculations needed to safely use the jump process.

And on an interesting note. Theres an old SF short story where explorers encounter a derelict in space that uses solid state tech. Their vaccuum tube elements are all exposed to space with no need for covers.

Albedo is another odd one where alot of the tech is 80s-90s era NATO level tech just with better power plants not reliant on fossil fuels. The tech there is a mix of some bulky tech and some light. Just about all the military tech is 80s-90s NATO level with advanced VTOLs tossed in. No laser guns.

As for why stick to a certain type of tech? One reason might be some peculiarity of space travel. Solid state is immune to for example some type of electromagnetic radiation or EM bursts from solar flares. But requires some rarer elements in the components for this to work.

Note that this causes its own problems. Bigger computers mean you are wasting more fuel getting those things into orbit or moving them around. It also means that unless they are well protected, which is about impossible in space, then one stray meteorite could wreak havok. Or one crewman gone crazy and armed with a wrench. Though depending on expertise and parts on hand, repairing it could be just as easy depending on the elements.

There is a ton of give and take with the differing techs. One of the reasons tech got smaller was the need to reduce weight for things like aeroplanes and rockets.

What you can do is something like Clash did, you suppose ordinary tech development up to point X in time, and then warp drive (or whatever you call it) is invented, and it's relatively simple and easy to build. Other tech doesn't develop much because people are too busy jumping into makeshift spaceships and zooming off to other worlds.

Depending how you limit or don't limit the warp drive, this could get ridiculous. What if you don't even have to leave the planet to enter warp, and can "land" with pinpoint accuracy? Someone could go spacefaring in their RV, or their nuclear submarine. Or maybe you need a certain low atmospheric density or altitude, then something like a suborbital spaceship or even a high-flying jet liner is plenty.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1039881One thing you need to realize is that once humanity creates something, we try to make it more efficient and compact.

This statement is very nearly completely untrue. The only Industry, that is trying to make their technology more efficient and compact is the electronics Industry, and even with that, some sectors have become corrupt, and are really only interested in designing their techmology to exploit their users... Apple and Sony, I'm looking at you! I see you!

Reference:
The Epic Mistake about manufacturing that is costing America Millions of Jobs
https://qz.com/1269172/the-epic-mistake-about-manufacturing-thats-cost-americans-millions-of-jobs/

Cars are going smaller, use less fuel, more efficient.  Computers have gotten smaller, and use less electricity, more efficient.  Aircraft engines use less fuel now, more efficient.  Humanity refines, for good or ill, we refine a technology to a size that we are comfortable with.

Quote from: rgrove0172;1039817Im working on a sci-fi setting with a bit or retro-tech (think 80s sci fi movies) and am theorizing an alternative history where the electronic revolution we enjoy today was stymied in the 80s for several reasons... radios, vehicles, and generally anything you can think of, built of if its not solid state, printed circuitry etc.?

Help?

I've been thinking about this too.  How about analogue computers?  AFAICT, analogue computing became a dead end, when digital computers overtook the analogue ability to do things faster.

But let's see:
Analogues would be bulkier, because they depend on moving parts instead of micro-transistors.
Does every computer in effect have its own operating system, requiring every program to be written (or at least tweaked) for that particular machine?  (Hence the expense)
Would it be even possible to write a virus for analogue computers?

Most of what I've seen done before is based upon normal computer tech getting too advanced until a virus/AI develops that causes a massive disaster. Then new applications of archaic tech is put back into use. Dune did this, I think that TNE did it with Virus, and so too did the 2000s BSG series to some extent.

You could simply do what every other two-bit, genre mixing setting does and say "it's magic!" Then you have the option to fuck up your sci-fi setting some more by adding elves or some other ill fitting fey crap.

Can't you just say, 'the physics/chemistry of this universe are slightly different, such that these particular advances simply don't work?' I mean, sure a hypothetical chem major player might fume about how one can create a universe where glass exists but silicon chips can't keep getting more data-dense or something along those lines, but for the rest of your group, wouldn't that work?