Quote from: SpikeI will vaguely warn you away from the new 'Core' book, however. While you get essentially the same rules, they are a mess, and the added 'complexity' rule for skills doesn't add as much to the game as it subtracts from character creation.

I just removed complexity when I ran a game using Silcore.

Thanks for all the replies, everyone.  Very helpful!

Does the Heavy Gear 2nd rulebook have the vehicle design rules in it?  I wonder because from what I've read the vehicle design system was not included in the Jovian Chronicles book, but instead was in put into the companion book.

Also, how do people feel about Mekton Z?

Quote from: RPGPunditFrom how I understand it, if you prefer VOTOMS then Heavy Gear is your game, but if you want something more like Gundam, then JC is the way to go.

RPGPundit

There is an Armored Trooper VOTOMS RPG. Its now long out of print. But it a fun game. I havent gotten a chance to play anything serious with it. But I would like to.

Quote from: SettembriniDrop the idea. Play Mechwarrior Second Edition instead!

Quote from: KoltarHow about GURPS:MECHA ?

 D20 MECHA??

Or, better yet, why not try Exalted?  It has mecha.

Guys, pay attention to his question.

!i!

Quote from: PseudoephedrineYeap. I played HG 1e right when it first came out, and own a copy of 2nd, and there was barely any  info about the world in 1e, and only a little more in 2e, and that mostly focused on Paxton Arms. Life on Terra Nova is really the only supplement you "need" though. Anything else is purely optional. Lest that be taken as a criticism, Life on Terra Nova is one of the best setting supplements I've ever read. I think it got even better with the 2e version.

LoTN is absolutely fantastic. It has recipes for Terra Novan food with native ingredients along with substitutes that a person on Earth can use. One of my biggest complaints with JC was that they did not do a "Life in the Solar System" book in the same vein and instead went for publishing faction books.

Quote from: newtmonkeyThanks for all the replies, everyone.  Very helpful!

Does the Heavy Gear 2nd rulebook have the vehicle design rules in it?  I wonder because from what I've read the vehicle design system was not included in the Jovian Chronicles book, but instead was in put into the companion book.

Also, how do people feel about Mekton Z?

I don't have HG 2e, but IIRC the vehicle design rules were removed to make space for the extra setting material. The VCS is available for free on the DP9 website.

However, there is an important thing to consider. The VCS presented in the Jovian Chronicles Companion as well as SilCore is a more general build system. The HG 1e VCS allows for you to build pretty much any conventional vehicle (but lacked things like space movement, which were added in a supplement) and modify off-the-shelf weapons - but had no rules for creating weapons wholecloth. Since in HG tactical and rpg combat used the same rules, an attempt at balance was made and values were tweaked where needed. Many HG players never did more than use the modification rules to modify existing designs.

The JCC VCS included the weapon design system and a bit more flexibility in vehicle design, including things like AI, thought control, FTL, Transformables, etc. Those things are not part of JC's setting, but it was decided to include a full vehicle construction system for those who wanted those elements. The calculations are also a little different - for example, the weapon creation rules are derived from guidelines used to create HG 1e's weapons, but because some values in HG 1e were tweaked and the calculations in the final design system might vary somewhat this means that a HG 1e weapon system recreated using the JC VCS might come out with a slightly different cost.

Quote from: WilI don't have HG 2e, but IIRC the vehicle design rules were removed to make space for the extra setting material. The VCS is available for free on the DP9 website.

However, there is an important thing to consider. The VCS presented in the Jovian Chronicles Companion as well as SilCore is a more general build system. The HG 1e VCS allows for you to build pretty much any conventional vehicle (but lacked things like space movement, which were added in a supplement) and modify off-the-shelf weapons - but had no rules for creating weapons wholecloth. Since in HG tactical and rpg combat used the same rules, an attempt at balance was made and values were tweaked where needed. Many HG players never did more than use the modification rules to modify existing designs.

The JCC VCS included the weapon design system and a bit more flexibility in vehicle design, including things like AI, thought control, FTL, Transformables, etc. Those things are not part of JC's setting, but it was decided to include a full vehicle construction system for those who wanted those elements. The calculations are also a little different - for example, the weapon creation rules are derived from guidelines used to create HG 1e's weapons, but because some values in HG 1e were tweaked and the calculations in the final design system might vary somewhat this means that a HG 1e weapon system recreated using the JC VCS might come out with a slightly different cost.

Oh wow, I'm glad you mentioned this!  This is definitely something to think about.  I'm very much interested in playing around with vehicle/mech design and would like as many options available as possible.  Thanks!

Quote from: newtmonkeyOh wow, I'm glad you mentioned this!  This is definitely something to think about.  I'm very much interested in playing around with vehicle/mech design and would like as many options available as possible.  Thanks!

The forum ate my response :mad:

To answer your MZ question, it's a very good system (especially with Mekton Zeta Plus, the advanced build rules). The full Sil VCS and MZ+ are both very flexible, but they do it in different ways. Sil is more concerned with the final result and less concerned with the path that the fictional engineers in the universe took to get there. In both games you could design a tank the size of a Humvee with unlimited range, 600kph ground speed and a 300mm cannon - but in SilCore there is less hammering and cursing involved (well, there's no cursing with MZ+). MZ+ designs, particularly the ones I like to build, can get complicated very quickly. Sil is also more dependent on a single guiding hand in sanity checking designs...it's not really for players to custom design their own mecha. In MZ+ the GM still has to make sure that there aren't bad rules abuses or elements that violate the tech or theme of the campaign, but it's a pretty long-standing tradition for players to design or custmize their own mecha. One way to look at is that for settings like Macross (or "real robots" or settings where the vehicles are pretty much set in stone) I would use SilCore, but for "super robots" or where I want a bit more crunch or I want to allow the players to modify and build their own mecha I would use MZ+. Different tools for different goals.

Thanks again for the reply, this is very helpful.

How is MZ as a tactical game?  Are there rules for this in either of the books?

Quote from: newtmonkeyThanks again for the reply, this is very helpful.

How is MZ as a tactical game?  Are there rules for this in either of the books?

Silhouette definitely plays faster once the maps and figures come out, and MZ makes the assumption you will be using a hex map. It is primarily a roleplaying game with some wargamey elements tacked on so it doesn't play as werll tactically as a dedicated wargame. There just isn't a wargame level of precision in the rules. Also the MZ GM's screen also has a dramatic system called Mekton the Movie that greatly simplifies mecha stats and combat, and mecha can be converted from the full build system to the compressed stats. I've never really used it though.