So according to this article by him the Internet is killing RPGs, because MMOs and the peripheral activities around them scratch the same itch (citing all sorts of things which don't involve sitting around the table with other human beings), and then goes on to mention how RPGs managed to survive the Magic: the Gathering boom (which he argues made good use of the Internet - so the net didn't kill RPGs then, but are killing them now), and then goes on to praise indie RPGs, the old-school movement, and virtual tabletops as the future of RPGs. Which depend on the Internet.

So the Internet:
a) is killing RPGs.
b) has previously failed to kill RPGs.
c) is keeping RPGs alive and vibrant.

Contradictory, eh?

Again ?

Edit: I should have bought him a drink when he was living, my country.

Regards,
David R

He starts off listing sales figures, numbers of stores, magazine circulation, etc.  Then jumps to:

QuoteThe entire tabletop hobby is shrinking and graying, and will eventually join model railroads and rocketry as an obscure, geriatric pursuit.

I think what he meant to say is "The entire tabletop hobby INDUSTRY is shrinking"

They're not the same thing.

Regardless of the merits of the article, it still makes me feel kind of warm and fuzzy to see Allen Varney mentioning Fight On!.

It's probably true to some degree though ultimately a pointless exercise to write about it - as if people will stop playing and writing games (especially, ironically, when it has never been easier to make and publish your own little game).

He's just WRONG.


Yes, the Gaming/RPG Hobby Industry is shrinking.  Meanwhile, most of "retail" is shrinking as well.
 The Gaming industry is a subset of retail - its not an isolated pocket or anything.

I see NEW players coming to the hobby all the time - they're just being more careful with how much money they spend. (like I said in the other thread) Heck, I was just talking with a guy yesterday who said he really learned to play Dungeons & Dragons while he was serving in Iraq with the Marines. He'd only played once or twice in high School and didn't think much of it. While in Iraq he met a good Dungeonmaster and group at the base he was at.

AS for computers? There are times people get sick of sitting in front of a screen .  Being around a table gaming anf sharing snacks is a much more attractive alternative for people at those times.

- Ed C.

Quote...will eventually join model railroads and rocketry as an obscure, geriatric pursuit.

I wish rpg's were as popular as model railroads.  They at least still have two or three in print magazines for sale at every bookstore.

Quote from: Stuart;290361I think what he meant to say is "The entire tabletop hobby INDUSTRY is shrinking"

They're not the same thing.

Well, I would say that if the industry shrinks away to nothing, then the hobby will shrink too; new product not being sold means that the only possible new players will come by word-of-mouth (or occasionally maybe used bookstores and such), and you'd better believe that this will make it harder to have a hobby.

Especially since, unlike say Model Railroading, our hobby actually depends on not just two but THREE OR FOUR people at the very minimum being able to find each other and game together.

Now try doing that after there hasn't been a new large-scale rpg published in 10 years. 20? 40?

People who say "RPGs will be just fine without the industry" are deluding themselves; or are at the least being extremely selfish, thinking their little group will just keep going fine. But eventually, you'll lose people from your little group too, and no one will be around to take their place.

RPGPunditf

Oh yeah, and Varney's out of his mind.  He has been for quite some time now, ever since he tried to pretend that Paranoia XP hadn't borrowed any design principles whatsoever from D20.

RPGPundit

As a WoW player, and as somebody who has played CoC, Shadowrun, EarthDawn, and to my shame, even OWOD Vampire for the past 20 odd years, I can definitely say that trying to RP on WoW leaves a quite a bit to be desired.
 
  Nothing like my toons, named Shalvayez, Auren and such, trying to rp with a dipshit named iliketospooge.

yeh i agree on the general pointlessness of trying to rp on mmo's, thing is the companies who run the games could easily add some kinda filter to the roleplay based servers to stop idiots who lack an imagination from calling there toons stupid shit but they dont seem to give enough of a damn to do so.  thats why i no longer bother with city of heroes, i just cant buy into a city who's citizens want to be protected by a guy calling himself ilikecookies or xxxcaptainbigshlongxxx.

Quote from: Broken-Serenity;290424thing is the companies who run the games could easily add some kinda filter to the roleplay based servers to stop idiots who lack an imagination from calling there toons stupid shit

You could meet with your friends and do things as a group.  But that doesn't do anything about the bigger problem. It's far better than the first generation of computer rpgs but it's still a rigid environment.  You can't convince the head minion to turn on his boss or find a clever noncombat solution unless those things are already planned for by programmers and offered as part of the multiple choice of solutions.  It's like roleplaying with a turtle - whatever you do, it's still just a turtle.

I actually utilize the random name generator that WoW has. Comes up with some pretty good ones, but yeah, I run into  CaptainJizzSucker, I cap his ass without saying a word.
 
Something to be said about running table tops, the GM can squash stupid names and concepts.
 
 Another thing I don't like about Warcraft is... One cannot play a Horde Human, and Alliance Tauren, etc. I like to play characters as individuals, and sometimes that means grossly going against the grain. What's to stop a Tauren from saying, 'I don't believe in what the Horde is doing, it's wrong, I will fight for the Alliance!" ?
 
 And...people cannot eat pizza, drink beer, and smoke cigarettes with their guildmates. RPGs are superior in this regard.
 
OTOH, if the publishers of Shadowrun, Dark Heresy, Vampire, etc wanted to, what's stopping them from making MMORPGs of their own?

Quote from: RPGPundit;290414People who say "RPGs will be just fine without the industry" are deluding themselves; or are at the least being extremely selfish, thinking their little group will just keep going fine. But eventually, you'll lose people from your little group too, and no one will be around to take their place.
 
RPGPunditf

The internet has greatly reduced the need for an industry.  You can still find new players, new amatueur games, and pdfs of old games even if there is no one producing games.  
 
A hobby doesn't need money involved to be a hobby.  An example of this are the fanfic communities, which are entirely amateur (at least in English).  They produce new stuff, share ideas, and do things cooperatively without any hope of anyone going pro.  Ultimately, it's even more pathetic than rpgs but it's an example of a hobby without a pro site
 
(Yes it does feed on professionally produced media.  RPGs do the same thing with non-rpg media.)

Quote from: shalvayez;290430And...people cannot eat pizza, drink beer, and smoke cigarettes with their guildmates. RPGs are superior in this regard.

LAN party.. get friends, try it.