The recent set of D&D 5e playtest material had a sort of theme to them that reminded me alot of TSRs Arabian Knights setting and got me wondering if they are planning a return of Al Quadim.
It is one of the few TSR settings I have never had a chance to look at. Just heard others accounts and the occasional articles on it.
Anyone ever used it and what were their impressions?
I've used all of Al-Qadim - I crashed my PC's onto Al-Qadim (from Spelljammer) and we ended up spending a solid year of real-time gaming there. I also wrote some of the "official" 3e Al-Qadim stuff for Dragon, so yeah, it's near and dear to my grizzled black heart.
My impressions: one of the best versions of D&D in terms of setting and production. I still have all my Al-Qadim stuff. It had flavor - it *really* captured the Sinbad swashbuckling vibe and its presentation of elemental magic and the Genie courts made it stand out without deviating too far.
None of my players realized there were in Al-Qadim for almost three sessions. None of them ever wanted to play in it... but after doing some adventures there, they loved it. One even "went Native".
I never really groked on to Al-Qadim.
No way in hell will it be Al-Q. TSR properties (aside from FR and minor traces of others) are dead. OTOH, if there is an Arabian Nights-themed MtG setting, WotC might publish something like that.
Quote from: Shasarak;1124031I never really groked on to Al-Qadim.
What's to grok? Sinbad! Ali-Baba and the 40 Thieves! Sherezade! all the classic Ray Harryhausen movies! Then toss in some D&D-style Vancian magic and conceits.
No impact?
I used Al-Qadim! I actually ran it converted to 5e before I stopped playing 5e. My players seemed to really enjoy it. Swashbuckling through desert markets was lots of fun, and it's got a lot of fantastic adventure elements that have a different play feel from fantasy Europe.
There's some neat ideas and material about the importance of things like social station and how that affects interactions, and some cool character options that I did some slapdash mechanical bullshittery to make 5e-compatible-enough-whatever.
It's also a very pretty book, nicely done. I don't have that much TSR stuff so I don't know how it compares overall. I'm really happy I bought it though and it's something I definitely wouldn't get rid of lightly, even though I have never played 2e and would only ever use the material with conversion work.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1124033No way in hell will it be Al-Q. TSR properties (aside from FR and minor traces of others) are dead. OTOH, if there is an Arabian Nights-themed MtG setting, WotC might publish something like that.
They just did a Greyhawk module last year. Ghosts of Saltmarsh is set in Greyhawk.
Emirates of Ylaruam is a nice little precursor to Al-Qadim for BECMI D&D. They pack alot of info into that thing!
I loved Al-Qadim...pre-9/11. We had such great fun, total Sinbad & Arabian Nights fantasy...but post 9/11, I could not get a table to get excited about touching anything from the Middle East. The few tables I ran just turned into political suckfests. But my last attempt was 10 years ago, and I've been yearning for some "Desert Fantasy" again.
Of course, I hope WotC is NOT doing Al-Qadim. As their entire staff is made of concentrated SJW flavored dumb, they can't be trusted to do anything remotely smart, useful or accurate with the setting.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1124066Of course, I hope WotC is NOT doing Al-Qadim. As their entire staff is made of concentrated SJW flavored dumb, they can't be trusted to do anything remotely smart, useful or accurate with the setting.
Its just a guess really on my part based on the playtest class paths. Warlock patron Noble Genie, Clockwork Sorcerer were what stood out as possible nods to the setting.
Quote from: Omega;1124055They just did a Greyhawk module last year. Ghosts of Saltmarsh is set in Greyhawk.
Sure, it was an ankle-deep Greyhawk insertion. It was intentionally made to be separable from Greyhawk and playable in other settings, and it's hardly the same as imagining that they would put out a Greyhawk setting book.
Quote from: HappyDaze;1124082Sure, it was an ankle-deep Greyhawk insertion. It was intentionally made to be separable from Greyhawk and playable in other settings, and it's hardly the same as imagining that they would put out a Greyhawk setting book.
"Ankle-deep" is a very good description of how I viewed most 5e fare. ALL of these settings - especially Greyhawk, and Al-Qadim deserve better.
If WoTC do bring it back I am sure they will run it past Hamas and Hezbollah sensitivity readers. If not outright hire them to write it.
Quote from: Gagarth;1124105If WoTC do bring it back I am sure they will run it past Hamas and Hezbollah sensitivity readers. If not outright hire them to write it.
In an abstract sense, the "foreign" settings were written by people who weren't actually very familiar with the real world settings that inspired the genres and thus ended up relying on exotic stereotypes. A person raised in Arabic culture is going to have a very different concept of an "Arabian Adventures" setting than someone who wasn't raised in Arabic culture.
You don't need to hire sensitivity readers. Just hire consultants from the pool of people with degrees in Arabic studies. An "Arabic Adventures" setting isn't going to have Muslims running around in it anymore than the standard generic pseudo-medieval European-inspired fantasy setting is going to have Jews and Christians running around in it.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1124106In an abstract sense, the "foreign" settings were written by people who weren't actually very familiar with the real world settings that inspired the genres and thus ended up relying on exotic stereotypes. A person raised in Arabic culture is going to have a very different concept of an "Arabian Adventures" setting than someone who wasn't raised in Arabic culture.
Then they should write that book/boxset and sell it to me. Otherwise... Al-Qadim works fine for my fantasy game of makebelieve. I don't care about authenticity for another person's feelings about a game *they* are not playing with *me*. I care about perceiving something as "good" to use in *my* presentation to my players at a level *I* am fine with.
Stereotypes exist for a reason. Whether someone "feels bad" about a specific stereotype - is not my problem. No one is being forced to consume anything they choose not to consume. Win/win.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1124106You don't need to hire sensitivity readers. Just hire consultants from the pool of people with degrees in Arabic studies. An "Arabic Adventures" setting isn't going to have Muslims running around in it anymore than the standard generic pseudo-medieval European-inspired fantasy setting is going to have Jews and Christians running around in it.
Or you know... you can just watch a bunch of Harryhausen movies and copy that, if that's what you want to play. I'm Asian, and I'm a Herculean-level fan of Oriental Adventures and the Kara-tur Boxset. I'm pretty confident that no one at TSR or Mike Pondsmith has a degree in "Asian studies" when they wrote those books. Did they get things "historically" wrong? Sure. Point me to an RPG book that gets any analog culture 100% accurate for a *fantasy elf-game*. That's the whole point - it doesn't need to be. If it's an issue - and you're the GM and you perceive it as an issue, fix it at your table. I do it all the time.
What is the point of being offended that a stereotype is being used? What *ISN'T* a stereotype by the standards of someone looking for something to be outraged at?
Make it good and interesting. Play the game how you want. RPG's aren't making people racists and they're not supposed to be historical textbooks you're going to be tested on. "Cultural appropriation" is a stupid idea. It seems to me that RPG's as a hobby is collecting passive-aggressive racists in the form of "Progressives" that are bringing their own inherent bigotries to the hobby and placing those bigotries over the engagement of the hobby itself in order to control things.
Eh, I got dice to roll and fun to be had. I.e. "Better things to do".
Edit: And why wouldn't/couldn't an "Arabic Adventures" setting have Muslims running around in it? Or Jews and Christians in a European game??? I'm confused? Are those elements magically verboten?
Quote from: tenbones;1124107Then they should write that book/boxset and sell it to me. Otherwise... Al-Qadim works fine for my fantasy game of makebelieve. I don't care about authenticity for another person's feelings about a game *they* are not playing with *me*. I care about perceiving something as "good" to use in *my* presentation to my players at a level *I* am fine with.
Stereotypes exist for a reason. Whether someone "feels bad" about a specific stereotype - is not my problem. No one is being forced to consume anything they choose not to consume. Win/win.
Or you know... you can just watch a bunch of Harryhausen movies and copy that, if that's what you want to play. I'm Asian, and I'm a Herculean-level fan of Oriental Adventures and the Kara-tur Boxset. I'm pretty confident that no one at TSR or Mike Pondsmith has a degree in "Asian studies" when they wrote those books. Did they get things "historically" wrong? Sure. Point me to an RPG book that gets any analog culture 100% accurate for a *fantasy elf-game*. That's the whole point - it doesn't need to be. If it's an issue - and you're the GM and you perceive it as an issue, fix it at your table. I do it all the time.
What is the point of being offended that a stereotype is being used? What *ISN'T* a stereotype by the standards of someone looking for something to be outraged at?
Make it good and interesting. Play the game how you want. RPG's aren't making people racists and they're not supposed to be historical textbooks you're going to be tested on. "Cultural appropriation" is a stupid idea. It seems to me that RPG's as a hobby is collecting passive-aggressive racists in the form of "Progressives" that are bringing their own inherent bigotries to the hobby and placing those bigotries over the engagement of the hobby itself in order to control things.
Eh, I got dice to roll and fun to be had. I.e. "Better things to do".
Edit: And why wouldn't/couldn't an "Arabic Adventures" setting have Muslims running around in it? Or Jews and Christians in a European game??? I'm confused? Are those elements magically verboten?
That's not my point.
I think a genuine understanding of the inspiring cultures would improve the quality of the setting. I am tired of the endless parade of shallow schlocky theme parks that dominate the fantasy genre.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1124109That's not my point.
I think a genuine understanding of the inspiring cultures would improve the quality of the setting. I am tired of the endless parade of shallow schlocky theme parks that dominate the fantasy genre.
Its funny that when you do see a truly deep and detailed fantasy world all you hear is how some people only liked it when it was a shallow schlocky theme park. **shrug**
Quote from: Shasarak;1124110Its funny that when you do see a truly deep and detailed fantasy world all you hear is how some people only liked it when it was a shallow schlocky theme park. **shrug**
Yup.
And it doesn't matter *what* culture they're emulating. There's always small niche groups that do enjoy getting "deep into the taco" with their setting's culture. But most of that in my games becomes emergent. Otherwise most gamers like to keep it light and fun.
And lets face... WotC, if they should go the route BoxCrayonTales is suggesting (and it's fine if you want that for your game) the odds are they'll do so to create a very specific narrative rather than actually use real historical context to it. And it's partially inevitable *because* in fantasy games many of the cultural practices are emergent in context with that happened *historically*. Fantasy games don't require it - in fact shouldn't have those things since the very conceits of a fantasy game would likely make its history very different than any real-world culture.
But that doesn't preclude a designer from creating those analogs as well, contextually, in their setting. Which is why there is no reason you can't have Muslim/Jew/Christian analogs in your fantasy settings. Happens in fiction all the time. But you better get your consistency right.
Quote from: tenbones;1124100"Ankle-deep" is a very good description of how I viewed most 5e fare. ALL of these settings - especially Greyhawk, and Al-Qadim deserve better.
I think its more the recurring problem that these books take alot of pages to say very little. The Eberron book for example and the Sword Coast one. Both of these I came away from having not learned all that much really about the locations. Sure there were some tidbits of history and political movements. But even that was scattershot.
I have a feeling if they did do an Al-Qadim book or module it would be just as vague somehow one way or another.
I wouldn't want anything even remotely resembling reality, I would want the Ray Harryhausen Sinbad movies.
Yeah realistic Arab setting and Arabian Knights do not exactly mix.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1124106You don't need to hire sensitivity readers. Just hire consultants from the pool of people with degrees in Arabic studies. An "Arabic Adventures" setting isn't going to have Muslims running around in it anymore than the standard generic pseudo-medieval European-inspired fantasy setting is going to have Jews and Christians running around in it.
Then when why would they need people with degrees in Arabic studies ? The average D&D writer, especially these days, knows fuck all about medieval Europe all they know about is Renfair fantasy and Marxist talking points. Also I doubt that anything produced now based on an Arabic setting would have a section discussing the evils of Medieval Arabic culture which are now mandatory when creating anything based on European cultures of anytime period. Based on the recently published offerings of Arabic settings the authors go out of there way to do the exact opposite.
I'd settle for writers with a better understanding of basic human nature.
Quote from: Omega;1124073Its just a guess really on my part based on the playtest class paths. Warlock patron Noble Genie, Clockwork Sorcerer were what stood out as possible nods to the setting.
They have it backwards. The Sha'ir does not serve the genie; the genie serves him.
Quote from: Aglondir;1124204They have it backwards. The Sha'ir does not serve the genie; the genie serves him.
Probably serve a female Genie... :rolleyes:
But as said, the two paths just reminded me of Al-Qadim and got me wondering if that is a possible setting book down the line. Theres no official statements.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1124147I'd settle for writers with a better understanding of basic human nature.
Amen to this.
I expect WotC management would view Al-Qadim or Kara-tur as complete non-starters because of "cultural insensitivity". The grievance-mongers would have a field day.
Quote from: Marchand;1124338I expect WotC management would view Al-Qadim or Kara-tur as complete non-starters because of "cultural insensitivity". The grievance-mongers would have a field day.
Ironic considering the vast majority of these people are white while pretending they're all about "representation" but only of the stripe that is 1) unmarketable 2) has to denigrate themselves based on their own skin-color as an a-priori assumption.
So white people will always be the bad guys in such settings where they would dare allow them to exist. OR they'll be absent. Worse case scenario is they pretend everyone gets along and you have black vikings, Arabian-analog samurai, Asian knights, all free of any context.
Quote from: Marchand;1124338I expect WotC management would view Al-Qadim or Kara-tur as complete non-starters because of "cultural insensitivity". The grievance-mongers would have a field day.
There are currently people trying to blacklist people who make Al-Qadim products for the DM's Guild. There is no way they would stand for WotC bringing Al-Qadim back.
Of course, being the contrarian that I am, I made a 5e conversion that depicted the Pantheon (the "totally-not-Moslem conquerors and religious oppressors"), as both the Pentatheon and the good guys of the setting.
Quote from: Fergurg;1124358There are currently people trying to blacklist people who make Al-Qadim products for the DM's Guild. There is no way they would stand for WotC bringing Al-Qadim back.
LINKS!!!
Any of these Al-Qadim products on the DM's Guild worth getting?
If authors doing good quality work are under threat of blacklist, we should promote them ASAP.
Quote from: tenbones;1124345Worse case scenario is they pretend everyone gets along and you have black vikings, Arabian-analog samurai, Asian knights, all free of any context.
Everyone gets along... not so keen
But black Vikings, Asian knights etc. I am OK with. Ripping off real world cultures (as opposed to being judiciously inspired by them) and dumping not-Vikings and not-Samurai into your fantasy world is lazy and stupid, unless you explicitly have a setting where real-world people have been spirited off, like Hyperborea from AS&SoH, which is also cool.
If I was worldbuilding I would start at a minimum with having it in the southern hemisphere, just to start messing up expectations.
That's actually a thing in at least two D&D settings that I recall. Greyhawk has people descended from Gypsies. (Not to mention Zagyg traveled to Boot Hill.) Mystara has a region populated by the descendants of people from France - who either were, or became werewolves. Probably more not aware of.
Quote from: tenbones;1124025I've used all of Al-Qadim - I crashed my PC's onto Al-Qadim (from Spelljammer) and we ended up spending a solid year of real-time gaming there. I also wrote some of the "official" 3e Al-Qadim stuff for Dragon, so yeah, it's near and dear to my grizzled black heart.
My impressions: one of the best versions of D&D in terms of setting and production. I still have all my Al-Qadim stuff. It had flavor - it *really* captured the Sinbad swashbuckling vibe and its presentation of elemental magic and the Genie courts made it stand out without deviating too far.
None of my players realized there were in Al-Qadim for almost three sessions. None of them ever wanted to play in it... but after doing some adventures there, they loved it. One even "went Native".
Al-Qadim was one of the better settings. What stuff did you do for Dragon?
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;1124548Al-Qadim was one of the better settings. What stuff did you do for Dragon?
Lessee - I did "Return of the Sha'Ir" in Issue #315, and "Heroes of Fate" in issue #321. I would have done a lot more but it would have turned into a full blown 3e setting and we can't have that. Noooo!
Originally I was going to do the Kara-Tur stuff for 3e. But James Wyatt was doing the book (which I did not like), and he got first dibs on the Magazine slot (grr), and literally *no* one on their feature writer pool wanted to do Al-Qadim. I jumped at it, as it was my close second choice. I whipped out so much material they split it up into two features.
Edit: I should add - those articles as listed are neutered versions of what I originally did. I made them more meaty. I'd begun my downward slide into loathing 3e, and realizing that 5-lvl beefy PrC's were the way to go in dealing with LFQR issues, editorial fought me a lot on it.
Quote from: Marchand;1124528If I was worldbuilding I would start at a minimum with having it in the southern hemisphere, just to start messing up expectations.
Nyambe: African Adventures (https://www.atlas-games.com/nyambe) beat you to the punch. The Sword & Soul genre deserves more love.
It's sad how little attention Nyambe received. At least Spears of the Dawn has a footprint.
Quote from: DeadUematsu;1124660It's sad how little attention Nyambe received. At least Spears of the Dawn has a footprint.
Greetings!
Indeed. I fully agree. I purchased the Nyambe setting book back when it first came out. The setting is interesting, detailed, and well done. It was a real tragedy that the setting was not marketed extensively, and it drifted into obscurity. I know many gamers lament the tired tropes of Western European fantasy--but the sad truth seems to be that in the aggregate, gamers are liars or deluded. Distinctly different historical and fantastic campaign settings have been produced through the years, and they are all generally obscure. The vast majority of the market continues to want and demand the same campaign setting stuff year after year, decade after decade.
I know there is a small niche of gamers, like myself, that genuinely love interesting campaign settings, and actually pay money and support them. They seem to be a distinct minority though. I think there is such a huge scope for fantastic historical settings, whether African based, Asian based, or South American based, among others. Some really awesome and interesting potentials involved there. I love it all.:D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK;1124663Greetings!
Indeed. I fully agree. I purchased the Nyambe setting book back when it first came out. The setting is interesting, detailed, and well done. It was a real tragedy that the setting was not marketed extensively, and it drifted into obscurity. I know many gamers lament the tired tropes of Western European fantasy--but the sad truth seems to be that in the aggregate, gamers are liars or deluded. Distinctly different historical and fantastic campaign settings have been produced through the years, and they are all generally obscure. The vast majority of the market continues to want and demand the same campaign setting stuff year after year, decade after decade.
I know there is a small niche of gamers, like myself, that genuinely love interesting campaign settings, and actually pay money and support them. They seem to be a distinct minority though. I think there is such a huge scope for fantastic historical settings, whether African based, Asian based, or South American based, among others. Some really awesome and interesting potentials involved there. I love it all.:D
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
The following post gets a bit rambling, so excuse that.
Even the faux medieval "European" settings bear no resemblance to any real European culture in any historical period. When was the last time you saw a faux European fantasy setting with believable countries distinguished by cultures, languages, fashions, etc?
Even
A Song of Ice and Fire, which gets attention for being grimdark, is terrible when it comes to distinguishing cultures and countries. I have no idea what the cultural difference between the Northern and Southern cultures is, much less the cultural difference between individual southern countries. A continent the size of South America all speak the same language with no dialectical variation. ASOIAF is overrated. It's grimdark melodrama, sure, but the worldbuilding is shit.
The four nations in
Avatar: The Last Airbender are better distinguished, and that's a children's show. They're distinct enough that they would make great sides in an RTS. Which IMO is the standard by which worldbuilders should set their cultures: your countries should be immediately visually distinguishable as sides in an RTS game.
Watching youtube videos about historical fashions (for example) is mindblowing. You wouldn't know that level of cultural diversity existed from reading the fantasy genre.
At least be honest and state your campaign world map is "The Only Fantasy World Map (https://www.deviantart.com/eotbeholder/art/The-Only-Fantasy-World-Map-245738593)" or "The Dangerlands (https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/3lgvjx/map_i_made_a_very_superserious_fantasy_map/)". The sheer absurdity of those maps is at least funny, in a
Discworld esque fashion.
On a related note, would anybody be interested in a
Stargate-inspired fantasy setting where many planets with wildly different human cultures are connected by gates?
Quote from: SHARK;1124663I know many gamers lament the tired tropes of Western European fantasy--but the sad truth seems to be that in the aggregate, gamers are liars or deluded.
Neither liars nor deluded.
They are worried they won't GM the setting right OR their players won't grasp the setting, and thus not have fun.
Running historical settings runs the risk of THAT GUY at the table who ruins everything because he can't just enjoy the game without nitpicking like a bitch. BTW, I actually sympathize with THAT GUY because when you have deep knowledge of a subject and a game setting just throws fact and fiction into a blender, it can be cringe inducing.
While most GMs are avid readers of setting books, most players are not. If you want to run a setting with deep cultural info, you need a method to get that info to the players in actual play, not via a 300 page book they will never, ever read.
And the players don't want to be playing it wrong. I run Legends of the Five Rings and many of my regular players won't join because they feel they won't "do it right" because they don't know anything about the setting, or ancient Japan.
I do not know how to overcome these problems. Zero idea. The best I've achieved is bringing in players who are willing to try, and then doing my best to immerse them in the setting in actual play with minimal handouts (1 page, 2 sides is my rule).
And I even read that one damn page aloud to them.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1124633Nyambe: African Adventures (https://www.atlas-games.com/nyambe) beat you to the punch. The Sword & Soul genre deserves more love.
A setting with no white or Asian people and Orc adjacent races which are all evil. Only an alt-right fascist could have written this.
Quote from: SHARK;1124663Indeed. I fully agree. I purchased the Nyambe setting book back when it first came out. The setting is interesting, detailed, and well done. It was a real tragedy that the setting was not marketed extensively, and it drifted into obscurity. I know many gamers lament the tired tropes of Western European fantasy--but the sad truth seems to be that in the aggregate, gamers are liars or deluded. Distinctly different historical and fantastic campaign settings have been produced through the years, and they are all generally obscure. The vast majority of the market continues to want and demand the same campaign setting stuff year after year, decade after decade.
I know there is a small niche of gamers, like myself, that genuinely love interesting campaign settings, and actually pay money and support them. They seem to be a distinct minority though. I think there is such a huge scope for fantastic historical settings, whether African based, Asian based, or South American based, among others. Some really awesome and interesting potentials involved there. I love it all.:D
Well, I enjoy small, niche settings. I usually don't like other peoples' take on small, niche settings. And while my own settings are definitely niche, they are derived largely from Western European fantasy (mostly Roman, Celtic, and Norse), with a smattering of Native American, Egyptian, and occasionally some tiny piece of something else (e.g. Sumerian, Slavic). That is, primarily I'm not buying someone else's setting to play or explore it. I'm buying it to mine some nugget to use in my own campaigns. The more niche their setting is, the less it matches my preferences, the less likely it is to correspond to something that I'll use. At least on average--every now and then something completely different but niche could be helpful. Yet, I don't usually want to waste the time to wade through a bunch of settings to find that helpful one--the work/reward ratio is poor from my perspective.
Every now and then, I'll get some benefit out of a setting because it is coherent enough to provide me a reaction. For example, I'm never going to run Pundit's medieval authentic stuff. I'm not interested in running a medieval authentic campaign. I am, however, very interested in running pre-medieval and alternate fantasy not really medieval that derives from another fantastical pre-medieval world. (That is, one of my own settings that is pre-medieval projected into a later era.) Thinking about what it means to be an "authentic medieval" game is a useful marker, even though I'm not going to do that. For a different setting to be useful to me, it may or may not matter that it be true to the source material, but it is vital that it be true to itself--whatever that means.
I think this gets back to the way most people are adept at recognizing that they are dissatisfied with something, but lousy at telling you why. You've got Joe Gamer out there getting a little bored with whatever setting he has been playing. So he expresses that as he wants something New, Different, Exotic! You give him 57 varieties of exactly what he asked for, and he isn't happy with any of them. Because what he really wanted was an interesting, slightly different twist on what he was doing before. Of course, a lot of lazy authors take that too literally, as well, where the put out the same old stuff with nothing changed but a twist on the surface (e.g. "It's just like Forgotten Realms with lots of Pirates and Muskets"). That might be a playable concept for a setting for some people, but to make it work, they have to extrapolate the differences into the setting.
One of my favorite settings, which is a lot like Al-Qadim, is Legends of the Burning Sands. It's a spin-off of Legend of the Five Rings. But if I ever run it, it will be with B/X or D6.
w00t! Yay, fans of outside ersatz Britannia unite! :)
I love Legend of the Burning Sands (LBS) even before they made an RPG book for it. It was an interesting retake on the AEG L5R card game mechanics and politics; I think their Dueling was better than L5R, and the finite pool of water reminded me of VtES.
I still have a big chunk of cards from its last set -- one of each starter deck! And the insinuated cultural friction in Medinaat al Salaam was awesome. So glad I got those cards AND my LBS rpg book. The metaplot set up is nuts with easy PC starting points and rapidly increasing (or optional) wheels within wheels.
And thanks for the ringing suggestion of Nyambe, everyone! I've been eyeing it but have an allergy to anything D&D 3.x/PF-esque. Maybe I will give it a second glance. :)
Quote from: Opaopajr;1124771I still have a big chunk of cards from its last set -- one of each starter deck! And the insinuated cultural friction in Medinaat al Salaam was awesome. So glad I got those cards AND my LBS rpg book. The metaplot set up is nuts with easy PC starting points and rapidly increasing (or optional) wheels within wheels.
I have two full shoeboxes of LBS. Regretfully, not much from the final set, The Awakening, which is hard to find. If I ever run it, I'm going to create two decks to use for random encounters: One of NPCs and one of events. Draw one card from each, so you get "Fatima, assassin" and "Knife fight." You could do that with other CCGs as well.
Quote from: tenbones;1124039What's to grok? Sinbad! Ali-Baba and the 40 Thieves! Sherezade! all the classic Ray Harryhausen movies! Then toss in some D&D-style Vancian magic and conceits.
Now you got ME interested in the setting...
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1124714Well, I enjoy small, niche settings. I usually don't like other peoples' take on small, niche settings. And while my own settings are definitely niche, they are derived largely from Western European fantasy (mostly Roman, Celtic, and Norse), with a smattering of Native American, Egyptian, and occasionally some tiny piece of something else (e.g. Sumerian, Slavic). That is, primarily I'm not buying someone else's setting to play or explore it. I'm buying it to mine some nugget to use in my own campaigns. The more niche their setting is, the less it matches my preferences, the less likely it is to correspond to something that I'll use. At least on average--every now and then something completely different but niche could be helpful. Yet, I don't usually want to waste the time to wade through a bunch of settings to find that helpful one--the work/reward ratio is poor from my perspective.
Every now and then, I'll get some benefit out of a setting because it is coherent enough to provide me a reaction. For example, I'm never going to run Pundit's medieval authentic stuff. I'm not interested in running a medieval authentic campaign. I am, however, very interested in running pre-medieval and alternate fantasy not really medieval that derives from another fantastical pre-medieval world. (That is, one of my own settings that is pre-medieval projected into a later era.) Thinking about what it means to be an "authentic medieval" game is a useful marker, even though I'm not going to do that. For a different setting to be useful to me, it may or may not matter that it be true to the source material, but it is vital that it be true to itself--whatever that means.
I think this gets back to the way most people are adept at recognizing that they are dissatisfied with something, but lousy at telling you why. You've got Joe Gamer out there getting a little bored with whatever setting he has been playing. So he expresses that as he wants something New, Different, Exotic! You give him 57 varieties of exactly what he asked for, and he isn't happy with any of them. Because what he really wanted was an interesting, slightly different twist on what he was doing before. Of course, a lot of lazy authors take that too literally, as well, where the put out the same old stuff with nothing changed but a twist on the surface (e.g. "It's just like Forgotten Realms with lots of Pirates and Muskets"). That might be a playable concept for a setting for some people, but to make it work, they have to extrapolate the differences into the setting.
Greetings!
Excellent, my friend!
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Eldritch_Knight;1125149Now you got ME interested in the setting...
Welcome Aboard Eldritch_Knight!
The original Al-Qadim is worth hunting down on eBay. I never needed anything beyond the core book, but some of the supplemental stuff was fun, like the Complete Sha'ir book which introduced cool new wizard variants. Most weren't great PC classes, but very flavorful NPCs.
Quote from: tenbones;1124039What's to grok? Sinbad! Ali-Baba and the 40 Thieves! Sherezade! all the classic Ray Harryhausen movies! Then toss in some D&D-style Vancian magic and conceits.
It's racist and should be banned. Everything the white patriarchy has produce should be recreated by women and POC and the originals destroyed. Even Cliffhanger https://deadline.com/2019/05/cliffhanger-reboot-jason-momoa-ana-lily-amirpour-cannes-female-1202608726/ (https://deadline.com/2019/05/cliffhanger-reboot-jason-momoa-ana-lily-amirpour-cannes-female-1202608726/)
All hail the Soc-Justice future my leader.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]4230[/ATTACH]
Quote from: Gagarth;1125197It's racist and should be banned. Everything the white patriarchy has produce should be recreated by women and POC and the originals destroyed. Even Cliffhanger https://deadline.com/2019/05/cliffhanger-reboot-jason-momoa-ana-lily-amirpour-cannes-female-1202608726/ (https://deadline.com/2019/05/cliffhanger-reboot-jason-momoa-ana-lily-amirpour-cannes-female-1202608726/)
...
I actually read the linked bit about the Cliffhanger reboot...
"...when audiences are crying out for bold departures and off-beat takes on tried and trusted genre formulas. ..."
Ummm, no they're not.
And WOTC will never release a setting that has even a whisper of unwokeness to it.
6e will be the new 4e.
Overall 5e official product has been mostly very low-key to nearly nil on its wokeness.
Instread what I keep seeing are just little meaningless insertions that go nowhere and impact nothing most of the time. They are just there and no ones crowing their presence so to me the product itself hasnt been JSW'd yet.
The couple of the WOTC staff on the other hand suffer from severs foot in mouth SJW disease.
Chaosium on the other hand cant stop beating you over the head with how racist, sexist, whatever-ist everyone was in the past and how horrible it is to like this stuff. But buy our product! Would not surprise me if they forced FFG to insert that "misgendered" character into the 3e Arkham Horror expansion.
Quote from: Omega;1125237Overall 5e official product has been mostly very low-key to nearly nil on its wokeness.
...
Really?
My group wanted to play the official 5e Waterdeep heist AP. So I'm in it.
It's a wokeapalooza.
From the early introduction of gay couple NPC's, to the basically gay pride parade set piece, to the tolerance for all races big bad Waterdeep has... The woke is sprinkled all over the place.
Really? Thats alot more than the low key stuff in Strahd. Tomb, or Dragons. Essentialls just has that weird throwaway bit with the gnomes. If ever get ahold of it will have a glance through Waterdeep and see. Still waiting on Ghosts of Saltmarsh.
As discussed in older threads.
Curse of Strahd has the totally throwaway mention of a crossdressing vishtani kid, how Barovia is a "diverse land", the gay relation of some knights, and even that was pretty much throwaway. The biggest is at the start where they go on about how Strahd is a "sexual predator" and Vampire = rapist. Other than that the insertions are meaningless.
Tomb of Annihilation has a throwaway mention of a guy and his husband, a cultist and her male and female incubus cohorts and possibly one or two other throwaways. Nothing really standing out.
Dont recall anything in the two Tyranny of Dragons books. But those were outshourced and not direct WOTC product. (which may be true of other books or modules as well.)
Essentials has the infamous crazy married gnome kings and so far havent seen anything else in there. And the gnome one is pretty much meaningless too.
Descent into Avernus havent had a read through yet.
I've only had a glance at Out of the Abyss and cant speak really on any of the others yet. I just assumed that the others were more of the same. Mostly meaningless entries. I have a suspicioun that even Waterdeeps insertions will turn out to be mostly meaningless.
Quote from: Aglondir;1124956I have two full shoeboxes of LBS. Regretfully, not much from the final set, The Awakening, which is hard to find. If I ever run it, I'm going to create two decks to use for random encounters: One of NPCs and one of events. Draw one card from each, so you get "Fatima, assassin" and "Knife fight." You could do that with other CCGs as well.
That is a great idea! And one that I have been working on here as my lil' pet project with MtG cards as a resource for a competing hegemon. ;) Just search this forum, it is around. :D
... which reminds me, now that I am indoors. :) I should finish those other mini-adventures drafted for that ersatz Eastern-European "Baroness Necromancer of the Ice Age Swamps."
(Been otherwise very busy trying to keep older family supplied & connected.:()
Quote from: Jaeger;1125218I actually read the linked bit about the Cliffhanger reboot...
"...when audiences are crying out for bold departures and off-beat takes on tried and trusted genre formulas. ..."
Ummm, no they're not.
And WOTC will never release a setting that has even a whisper of unwokeness to it.
6e will be the new 4e.
Batman now Chinese and Alfred is his gay uncle https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/first-look-batman-meets-gossip-150001236.html (https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/first-look-batman-meets-gossip-150001236.html)
Quote from: Omega;1125294... Essentialls just has that weird throwaway bit with the gnomes. ...
...
Curse of Strahd has the totally throwaway mention of a crossdressing vishtani kid, how Barovia is a "diverse land", the gay relation of some knights, and even that was pretty much throwaway. The biggest is at the start where they go on about how Strahd is a "sexual predator" and Vampire = rapist.
...
Tomb of Annihilation has a throwaway mention of a guy and his husband, a cultist and her male and female incubus cohorts and possibly one or two other throwaways. Nothing really standing out.
...
Essentials has the infamous crazy married gnome kings ....
And that's just off the top of your head... Yikes!!
Quote from: Omega;1125294...
...throwaway mention ...
Other than that the insertions are meaningless.....
Except they're not meaningless. Not throwaway.
You remember them. Lots of people do.
That's how SJW's work: a little here, a little there. Slowly upping the ante until it all becomes
Normal...SJW Entryism of any kind or amount must be called out and stamped out.
Otherwise be prepared for Everything you Like about D&D to be Perverted, Inverted, and Subverted, until the "D&D" you loved is unrecognizable.
Just look at what they did to Marvel and DC comics...
Look at what they are already getting away with in 5e. "Throwaway" my ass. The normalization is clearly already working...
Anyone here really think that they won't double down
HARD with 6e?
I think a 6e release for the 50th anniversary of D&D will be too hard for WOTC to pa$$ up.
5e will have been out 9 years by then, 1 longer than 3e. The perfect excuse for a double down...
On topic:
And despite having a cool sounding name: Al-Quadim will never be re-introduced by current year WOkeTC. Because sometimes the obvious is obvious.
Greetings!
You know, it is a shame that WOTC has just consigned the Al Quadim Campaign setting into oblivion. I remember buying most everything for the Al Quadim Campaign setting, and I always enjoyed everything they presented. The campaign setting usually featured detailed, interesting adventures, and fairly well-developed NPC's and villains. I also recall that nearly with every module, there were extensive maps and floor plans of all kinds of buildings, fortifications, palaces, and intriguing adventure locations. All of which was flavoured nicely with fantastic Arabian themes and writing. I think the Al Quadim Campaign setting is an outstanding example of a campaign setting done right, from start to finish.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK;1125450Greetings!
You know, it is a shame that WOTC has just consigned the Al Quadim Campaign setting into oblivion. I remember buying most everything for the Al Quadim Campaign setting, and I always enjoyed everything they presented. The campaign setting usually featured detailed, interesting adventures, and fairly well-developed NPC's and villains. I also recall that nearly with every module, there were extensive maps and floor plans of all kinds of buildings, fortifications, palaces, and intriguing adventure locations. All of which was flavoured nicely with fantastic Arabian themes and writing. I think the Al Quadim Campaign setting is an outstanding example of a campaign setting done right, from start to finish.
...
And that's the real shame.
WOkeTC wouldn't have to create "new" content from scratch.
They already have all the content they need. They would just need a competent line developer to bring it all together in a cohesive whole. Editing, reformatting, and new art all around for a clean look.
But like most things un-Woke, the Muggle's will try and memory hole that which they do not approve of.
Quote from: Gagarth;1124686A setting with no white or Asian people and Orc adjacent races which are all evil. Only an alt-right fascist could have written this.
A black version of MYFAROG?
Quote from: Jaeger;1125449And that's just off the top of your head... Yikes!!
Except they're not meaningless. Not throwaway.
1: Thats because we had a few threads on this recently.
2: They are throwaway and meaningless because they do nothing and no ones ever mentioned them even being there. Usually with this SJW nonsense they crow it so you know it. The stuff I mentioned tends to be one sentence or less and easy to miss. Its not at all in your face SJW rhetoric like that new trans character in 3e Arkham Horror.
Other than that bit on Strahd so far all the ones I've seen seem more like someone had a mandate to have X representation and someone else just dropped it in with zero fanfare. Resistance?
Quote from: SHARK;1125450Greetings!
You know, it is a shame that WOTC has just consigned the Al Quadim Campaign setting into oblivion. I remember buying most everything for the Al Quadim Campaign setting, and I always enjoyed everything they presented. The campaign setting usually featured detailed, interesting adventures, and fairly well-developed NPC's and villains. I also recall that nearly with every module, there were extensive maps and floor plans of all kinds of buildings, fortifications, palaces, and intriguing adventure locations. All of which was flavoured nicely with fantastic Arabian themes and writing. I think the Al Quadim Campaign setting is an outstanding example of a campaign setting done right, from start to finish.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: Jaeger;1125456And that's the real shame.
WOkeTC wouldn't have to create "new" content from scratch.
They already have all the content they need. They would just need a competent line developer to bring it all together in a cohesive whole. Editing, reformatting, and new art all around for a clean look.
But like most things un-Woke, the Muggle's will try and memory hole that which they do not approve of.
WOTC doesnt work that way. Theyd more likely release PDFs of the boxed sets and books in their original formats and then, if ever, do a setting overview or book like they have for other settings so far.
If the quality of their material continues on the current trajectory, it isn't going to matter if or when WotC goes full woke. All full woke might do is give them a last gasp from the usual suspects before they crash.
Hope to see Al-Qadim back some day. It had some good ideas and great adventures. Its strength was in encouraging narratives rather than dungeon-bashes (not that dungeon bashes are bad but one does like variety). I loved the tensions between the nomadic tribes and the city people, at times it felt like a less apocalyptic version of Dark Sun.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1125540If the quality of their material continues on the current trajectory, it isn't going to matter if or when WotC goes full woke. All full woke might do is give them a last gasp from the usual suspects before they crash.
As long as they pay by the word expect more of these books that spend alot of words saying very little.
Welcome aboard Nerag!!
Quote from: Nerag;1125711I loved the tensions between the nomadic tribes and the city people, at times it felt like a less apocalyptic version of Dark Sun.
Fully agree. The nomads vs. city theme was quite cool (and caused all sorts of shenanigans in games) and definitely less dire setting than Dark Sun, and that allowed for some great stories. I had tremendous fun running Al Qadim.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell;1125540If the quality of their material continues on the current trajectory, it isn't going to matter if or when WotC goes full woke. All full woke might do is give them a last gasp from the usual suspects before they crash.
No one I play with currently consumes WotC RPG products. A couple of my players are avid Magic players - they detest the Magic community for the woke bullshit.
But to your point - the material that WotC is putting out for D&D has zero appeal to GM's like myself that have a library of previous editions that require *zero* effort to mine for not just 5e, but other systems if I wanna play in those settings. So I've taken my queue from WotC - they're not producing stuff that is useful to me, or of a quality/content that is worth my money. Fine.
Al-Qadim has a ton of material from 2e that frankly stands far taller than anything put out for 5e. A little elbow-grease is all that is required to convert it.
Well, if you want to play a cracking fantasy setting with no white people in it, there's always Arrows of Indra (http://www.bedrockgames.net/about.html).
Quote from: RPGPundit;1126573Well, if you want to play a cracking fantasy setting with no white people in it, there's always Arrows of Indra (http://www.bedrockgames.net/about.html).
Bemusingly I've never heard a SJW nut ever refer to an Arab or Hindu (or whatever its trendy today to call them) as a "person of colour". Hell. Hispanics only get that nod when its convenient to the cultists agenda.
Quote from: RPGPundit;1126573Well, if you want to play a cracking fantasy setting with no white people in it, there's always Arrows of Indra (http://www.bedrockgames.net/about.html).
I looked at the product page on DTRPG, and immediately in the comments somebody was calling you a misogynistic homophobic fascist.
It doesn't make sense that somebody who can appreciate foreign cultures and engages in a genuinely respectful form of cultural appropriation to produce
Arrows of Indra would be a fascist. Historically fascists were opposed to cultural exchange because it promotes the sharing of ideas and knowledge, which naturally leads to more open-mindedness and scientific progress.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1124664The following post gets a bit rambling, so excuse that.
Even the faux medieval "European" settings bear no resemblance to any real European culture in any historical period. When was the last time you saw a faux European fantasy setting with believable countries distinguished by cultures, languages, fashions, etc?
Even A Song of Ice and Fire, which gets attention for being grimdark, is terrible when it comes to distinguishing cultures and countries. I have no idea what the cultural difference between the Northern and Southern cultures is, much less the cultural difference between individual southern countries. A continent the size of South America all speak the same language with no dialectical variation. ASOIAF is overrated. It's grimdark melodrama, sure, but the worldbuilding is shit.
The four nations in Avatar: The Last Airbender are better distinguished, and that's a children's show. They're distinct enough that they would make great sides in an RTS. Which IMO is the standard by which worldbuilders should set their cultures: your countries should be immediately visually distinguishable as sides in an RTS game.
Watching youtube videos about historical fashions (for example) is mindblowing. You wouldn't know that level of cultural diversity existed from reading the fantasy genre.
At least be honest and state your campaign world map is "The Only Fantasy World Map (https://www.deviantart.com/eotbeholder/art/The-Only-Fantasy-World-Map-245738593)" or "The Dangerlands (https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/3lgvjx/map_i_made_a_very_superserious_fantasy_map/)". The sheer absurdity of those maps is at least funny, in a Discworld esque fashion.
On a related note, would anybody be interested in a Stargate-inspired fantasy setting where many planets with wildly different human cultures are connected by gates?
Is it me or that "The only fantasy World Map" seems to be a Meme of Golarion the world setting for Pathfinder :p
A Stargate style Fantasy setting has merit.
I enjoyed Spelljammer myself. Its how I linked my old Greyhawk campaign to the Forgotten Relams campaign. Fun times :)
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1126611I looked at the product page on DTRPG, and immediately in the comments somebody was calling you a misogynistic homophobic fascist.
It doesn't make sense that somebody who can appreciate foreign cultures and engages in a genuinely respectful form of cultural appropriation to produce Arrows of Indra would be a fascist. Historically fascists were opposed to cultural exchange because it promotes the sharing of ideas and knowledge, which naturally leads to more open-mindedness and scientific progress.
NPC's are gonna NPC
Its the only dialog they have been programmed with so what else can they say..... quite sad really.
Yep. You are a horrible person because they hallucinate you a horrible person.
You guys spend a lot of time stroking your hate boners for people you claim to hate. Is anyone going to do something game related and write something about Al-Quadim or is this a recruitment thread?
Quote from: Nerag;1126692You guys spend a lot of time stroking your hate boners for people you claim to hate. Is anyone going to do something game related and write something about Al-Quadim or is this a recruitment thread?
No. We all sit around waiting for someone to drive by defend these nuts.
And there so far seems nothing much more to say other than discuss some of the other Arabian Knights themed settings and adventures out there. I mentioned the one for BX/BECMI for example.
Wasnt there one for Runequest?
Quote from: Nerag;1126692You guys spend a lot of time stroking your hate boners for people you claim to hate. Is anyone going to do something game related and write something about Al-Quadim or is this a recruitment thread?
I did write some stuff for Al-Qadim. Now I get to stroke my boner!
Seriously - I have so much stuff to do these days, the idea of going back to write content for Al-Qadim is a luxury I can't quite afford. If my players *reeeeeaaalllly* pressed me to do some Arabian-flavored stuff, I'd definitely consider running it Savage Worlds.
Running it native in 2e? That would likely open up a whole box of worms all on its own. "2e? Let's do
where is not Al-Qadim!!" screeched the players!
Quote from: tenbones;1126712Running it native in 2e? That would likely open up a whole box of worms all on its own. "2e? Let's do where is not Al-Qadim!!" screeched the players!
If I'm gonna have to suffer 2e I'd vote Dark Sun. :D
In fairness I never actually played Al-Quadim. All I ever got was the City of Delights supplement with the sexy cover, rwar!
(https://http2.mlstatic.com/advanced-dungeons-and-dragons-al-qadim-city-of-delights-D_NQ_NP_732538-MLB27190039621_042018-F.jpg)
Quote from: Spinachcat;1124066Of course, I hope WotC is NOT doing Al-Qadim. As their entire staff is made of concentrated SJW flavored dumb, they can't be trusted to do anything remotely smart, useful or accurate with the setting.
Would the concentrated right-wing flavoured dumb that permeates this site be trustworthy?
Quote from: tenbones;1126712I did write some stuff for Al-Qadim. Now I get to stroke my boner!
Seriously - I have so much stuff to do these days, the idea of going back to write content for Al-Qadim is a luxury I can't quite afford. If my players *reeeeeaaalllly* pressed me to do some Arabian-flavored stuff, I'd definitely consider running it Savage Worlds.
Running it native in 2e? That would likely open up a whole box of worms all on its own. "2e? Let's do where is not Al-Qadim!!" screeched the players!
Since we are stroking boners, did you write professionally or for a personal game? If it was personal I wouldn't mind seeing your... uh... contributions.
I have been kicking around a conversion/adaption/related setting for 5E.
I think Al-qadim is a good subject to change the way priests and divine magic is treated philosophically, as opposed to mechanically. This has been touched on in 3E when they proposed having a monotheistic setting with a God of everything... I was thinking that there are aspects that embody parts of the divine and people venerate all aspects, but Priests are specialists. So.. if you are going on a sea journey you might venerate the aspect of storms, but if you want to meet your true love by moonlight you might pray to the moon maiden aspect...etc
I don't know if they expanded things because I only remember the core book, but I always through the Gods in Al-Qadim were lacking.
I'd also want to have multiple faiths, so you could have one influenced by zoroastrianism. I'd also want to do one based on sufi mystics but frankly I think the RPG version would be more staid then the ones IRL.
Quote from: yojimbouk;1126763Would the concentrated right-wing flavoured dumb that permeates this site be trustworthy?
And we have out drive by SJW defender for the day. Congratulations!
This place is about as far from the left or right as it gets.
Try again please.
Quote from: Nerag;1126768I don't know if they expanded things because I only remember the core book, but I always through the Gods in Al-Qadim were lacking.
A little research shows that the game saw a couple of attendant material. Not counting anything squirrelled away in Dragon, Dungeon, or Polyhedron.
Past the core Arabian Adventures book there was one Monstrous Compendium for Al-Qadim. Then the Complete Sha'ir's Handbook which I got from a DM that passed away.
There were some boxed sets that were mostly campaign settings. Land of Fate(campaign) the above mentioned City of Delights(campaign), Golden Voyages (campaign), Assassin Mountain(campaign), A Dozen and One Adventures(adventure collection), Secrets of the Lamp(campaign), Ruined Kingdoms(campaign), Cities of Bone(campaign), Corsairs of the Great Sea(campaign), and Caravans(campaign).
I believe RPGA put out one or two module? Reunion and I think Night of the Rakshasa? Its been a few decades!
And one obscure PC game.
Dragon 315 and 321 had articles for adding Al-Qadim classes to 3e.
I've seen Golden Voyages and it was pretty interesting looking. But at the time it did not register as an Al-Qadim product as did not know anything about it yet. (Despite having Al-Qadim emblazoned on it. ahem...)
Could have swore there were some pre-3e articles in Dragon, Dungeon or Polyhedron. But cant pin down any.
FWIW there's a very nice Arabian themed OSR book, The Thousand Year Sandglass
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/244365/The-Thousand-Year-Sandglass--Book-1
Sort of a B/X (it's based on LL) and Al-Qadim mashup.
Quote from: Omega;1126772And we have out drive by SJW defender for the day. Congratulations!
This place is about as far from the left or right as it gets.
Try again please.
I am so apolitical I don't even know who I am, where I am or what my name is anymore. Who are you? What are you? Where are we?! WHAT AM I!?
I found a free version of The Nightmares Underneath set in a Persian/Turkish setting next to a phantasmagorical horror land that spawn dungeon crawls from human subconsciousness. Looks good but is a species of OSR that seems able to be converted pretty easily.
Quote from: JeremyR;1126775FWIW there's a very nice Arabian themed OSR book, The Thousand Year Sandglass
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/244365/The-Thousand-Year-Sandglass--Book-1
Sort of a B/X (it's based on LL) and Al-Qadim mashup.
Hows it compare to BX/BECMI's Emirates of Ylaruam?
Prior to Emirates of Ylaruam there had been some modules with an Arabian Knights style setting.
Master of the Desert Nomads comes to mind. Another article received from the same DM that passed away along with The Lost Temple.
And of course Day of Al'Albar for AD&D. Wasnt that set in the Arabian Knights themed lands to the far west of Greyhawk?
And I had a look at Rahasia way back, an apparently Arabian Knights themed module by Weiss and Hickman. But was thoroughly unimpressed as aside from some names. The art and writing did did zero to evoke an arabian feel. I did though like the idea of an Arabian Knights themed elven land. If only W&H had provided that. ahem.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1124066I loved Al-Qadim...pre-9/11. We had such great fun, total Sinbad & Arabian Nights fantasy...but post 9/11, I could not get a table to get excited about touching anything from the Middle East. The few tables I ran just turned into political suckfests. But my last attempt was 10 years ago, and I've been yearning for some "Desert Fantasy" again.
Of course, I hope WotC is NOT doing Al-Qadim. As their entire staff is made of concentrated SJW flavored dumb, they can't be trusted to do anything remotely smart, useful or accurate with the setting.
If they do remake Al-Qadim it will be the most insufferable hectoring you've ever seen masquerading as an RPG supplement.
Speaking of Arabic fantasy settings, I would like a more authentic portrayal of jinn compared to D&D's mix of genie, djinn, jann, efreet, marid, and dao. They're made up by the D&D writers without basis in Arabic folklore. Genie, djinn, and jann are just variants or translations of the same word. I have found very few sources that distinguish jinn and jann, but it does seem to be present in Muslim demonology.
Legends of the Fire Spirits by Robert Lebling does mention that there are jinn of the air, earth, and sea in Muslim cultures of Tunisia and Malaysia, but it doesn't give them those names. (The book is about the variety of jinn folklore across the Muslim world. I highly recommend it!) In Tunisia, they are simply called "jinn of the air," "jinn of the sea," etc. The jinn of the sea are synonymous with what European cultures call mermaids.
Fisherman's Blues by Anna Badkhen mentions Mariama Sangomar, a genie with three heads, six arms, and one leg, one of many genies who gather at the Point of Sangomar in West Africa and usually appear as will-o'-wisps.
If they do re-do Al-Quadim then I hope they include Time Traveling Osama Bin Laden.
Quote from: Shasarak;1126876If they do re-do Al-Quadim then I hope they include Time Traveling Osama Bin Laden.
I don't recall inter-temporal bin Laden being a thing. I thought it was time traveling Obama because he didn't prevent the 9/11 attacks when Bush Jr was president, or didn't do something he couldn't have done due to not being in government at the time etc
Quote from: Mjollnir;1126861If they do remake Al-Qadim it will be the most insufferable hectoring you've ever seen masquerading as an RPG supplement.
Help I'm being oppressed! This straw man is oppressing me! I'm on the verge of doing some interesting work on a middle east inspired setting but a bunch of SJW scarecrows marched in, arrested me and sent me to SJW jail. You have to wonder why absolutely everyone we have talked about this far who recently did a take on the subject isn't in SJW jail with me... but that's not important. I am a strong, independent man who takes no crap and I am being oppressed somehow.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1126874Speaking of Arabic fantasy settings, I would like a more authentic portrayal of jinn compared to D&D's mix of genie, djinn, jann, efreet, marid, and dao. They're made up by the D&D writers without basis in Arabic folklore. Genie, djinn, and jann are just variants or translations of the same word. I have found very few sources that distinguish jinn and jann, but it does seem to be present in Muslim demonology.
Legends of the Fire Spirits by Robert Lebling does mention that there are jinn of the air, earth, and sea in Muslim cultures of Tunisia and Malaysia, but it doesn't give them those names. (The book is about the variety of jinn folklore across the Muslim world. I highly recommend it!) In Tunisia, they are simply called "jinn of the air," "jinn of the sea," etc. The jinn of the sea are synonymous with what European cultures call mermaids.
Fisherman's Blues by Anna Badkhen mentions Mariama Sangomar, a genie with three heads, six arms, and one leg, one of many genies who gather at the Point of Sangomar in West Africa and usually appear as will-o'-wisps.
Hell yes. The original mythology seems so interesting and D+D really doesn't seem to go into it much at all. I just had a look at Capharnaum which seems to have a few things to say about them. Its a arabia/middle east setting as well, but you can also play the equivalent of a European I think.
Quote from: Mjollnir;1126861If they do remake Al-Qadim it will be the most insufferable hectoring you've ever seen masquerading as an RPG supplement.
More likely it would just be more of the same. Mostly tiny little meaningless things. And only two or three at best. Maybee four. Thats the current pattern do far from the stuff I have from them. Aside from Curse of Strahd none of its been in your face and even in Strahd after the initial spiel its overall low key again.
So I'd suspect youd get something like on page 10 a little line like "the sultans son walks by. She is 18." or "The jewel merchant and his husband are tending the store." which is what most of these have been. One sentence and zero to back it up. Which is why I label them meaningless.
Quote from: JeremyR;1126775FWIW there's a very nice Arabian themed OSR book, The Thousand Year Sandglass
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/244365/The-Thousand-Year-Sandglass--Book-1
Sort of a B/X (it's based on LL) and Al-Qadim mashup.
This looks amazing! Here's a link to a review (https://osrnews.blogspot.com/2018/07/the-thousand-year-sandglass-book-1-gem.html). It uses Labyrith Lord rules, and the setting is a world encased in a giant hourglass.
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There are three kingdoms: one run by evil wizards, another which is a Baghdad clone, and another which is (possibly) Indian flavored. There are three non-human races: elf, cat person, and lizard person. Dex bonus to AC is doubled to reflect that armor's not really part of the flavor. The book contains several adventures, which are mainly dungeons.
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Quote from: Nerag;1126878Help I'm being oppressed! This straw man is oppressing me! I'm on the verge of doing some interesting work on a middle east inspired setting but a bunch of SJW scarecrows marched in, arrested me and sent me to SJW jail. You have to wonder why absolutely everyone we have talked about this far who recently did a take on the subject isn't in SJW jail with me... but that's not important. I am a strong, independent man who takes no crap and I am being oppressed somehow.
Your post is literally the definition of a straw man.
Not sure if it counts. But what about Chult for FR? Its got that weird Arabian Knights meets Land of the Lost vibe to it.
Quote from: Nerag;1126877I don't recall inter-temporal bin Laden being a thing. I thought it was time traveling Obama because he didn't prevent the 9/11 attacks when Bush Jr was president, or didn't do something he couldn't have done due to not being in government at the time etc
Not a Future Man fan?
Quote from: Mjollnir;1126885Your post is literally the definition of a straw man.
Help my strawman of a strawman is being strawmanned by a strawman. I'd respond but I am in SJW prison for making obscene threats to a scarecrow.
Quote from: Shasarak;1126889Not a Future Man fan?
Just reading about Future Man. Sounds pretty funny but where does Osama come in?
Quote from: Nerag;1126892Just reading about Future Man. Sounds pretty funny but where does Osama come in?
Season 3.
Quote from: Nerag;1126768Since we are stroking boners, did you write professionally or for a personal game? If it was personal I wouldn't mind seeing your... uh... contributions.
During 3e I was tasked to do an official feature for Al-Qadim (the only 3e material for it as far as I know) for Dragon Magazine when they did an issue that covered all their major settings. I gave them so much information they ended up doing two or three features in other issues, from the same piece. One of the them made it into the last Best of Dragon.
Quote from: Nerag;1126768I think Al-qadim is a good subject to change the way priests and divine magic is treated philosophically, as opposed to mechanically. This has been touched on in 3E when they proposed having a monotheistic setting with a God of everything... I was thinking that there are aspects that embody parts of the divine and people venerate all aspects, but Priests are specialists. So.. if you are going on a sea journey you might venerate the aspect of storms, but if you want to meet your true love by moonlight you might pray to the moon maiden aspect...etc
I don't know if they expanded things because I only remember the core book, but I always through the Gods in Al-Qadim were lacking.
I'd also want to have multiple faiths, so you could have one influenced by zoroastrianism. I'd also want to do one based on sufi mystics but frankly I think the RPG version would be more staid then the ones IRL.
Personally I think it would be better to update 2e than overhaul 5e to do what you're suggesting.
The left can't meme, or bantz apparently.
Quote from: Nerag;1126879Hell yes. The original mythology seems so interesting and D+D really doesn't seem to go into it much at all. I just had a look at Capharnaum which seems to have a few things to say about them. Its a arabia/middle east setting as well, but you can also play the equivalent of a European I think.
The "jinn" is the go-to term for
any paranormal phenomena. The angel and devil on your shoulder? The personification of various natural phenomena? A magical girlfriend from the mysterious land of Jinnistan? Hidden folk and their magical animals? Jinn.
In fact, several translations of Arabian fairy tales I found use fairy as a translation of jinn. (e.g. "The story of Prince Ahmed and the fairy Paribanou (https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_story_of_Prince_Ahmed_and_the_fairy_Paribanou)")
I've been doing some research (ok on Wikipedia but this isn't something I'm going to publish or send to a university) and the origins are quite fascinating and contradictory because every ethnic group has their own variants. The one I quite like is the Assyrian version that makes the Jinn like the Shedim, who were said to be spirits who were descended from an angel and a demon. This makes the Jinn a bit like the Grigori (giants) descended from the Nephilim and mortal women in certain apocryphal biblical texts. This makes me think that my idea of linking the Giants and the Jinn as part of the same heritage was a good idea.
So in my 5E version of al-qadim all giants, djinni, marid, efreet and dao are Jinn and they are all inter-related. They would all have the ability to travel to the elemental worlds and maybe have etherealness as well. To balance this they should have a vulnerability to being commanded and bound. Maybe anyone with an arcane background should be able to command or bind them using the cleric's rules for turning and destroying undead.
Quote from: Mjollnir;1126942The left can't meme, or bantz apparently.
This is a letter from Nerag's legal representative.
He instructs he is currently restrained from engaging in the 'bantz' process, due to his incarceration by 'hordes' of 'leftists' who have currently detained him in 'SJW jail' because you said this would happen.
He apologizes for any inconvenience.
Regards,
Mr Law, Lawman
Lawyer
Quote from: tenbones;1126927During 3e I was tasked to do an official feature for Al-Qadim (the only 3e material for it as far as I know) for Dragon Magazine when they did an issue that covered all their major settings. I gave them so much information they ended up doing two or three features in other issues, from the same piece. One of the them made it into the last Best of Dragon.
Personally I think it would be better to update 2e than overhaul 5e to do what you're suggesting.
I think I have that issue somewhere...
Quote from: Nerag;1127010Regards,
Mr Law, Lawman
Lawyer
I would have hired Lawie McLawface myself.
Quote from: Nerag;1127013I think I have that issue somewhere...
I have mixed feelings about it. Not that I don't stand by the work, but that the editing process *reeeeaaallly* broke my back starting with this feature going forward and ultimately ended my run as a "go to" feature writer for Dragon... and my descending dislike for 3.x...
Quote from: Nerag;1127009I've been doing some research (ok on Wikipedia but this isn't something I'm going to publish or send to a university) and the origins are quite fascinating and contradictory because every ethnic group has their own variants. The one I quite like is the Assyrian version that makes the Jinn like the Shedim, who were said to be spirits who were descended from an angel and a demon. This makes the Jinn a bit like the Grigori (giants) descended from the Nephilim and mortal women in certain apocryphal biblical texts. This makes me think that my idea of linking the Giants and the Jinn as part of the same heritage was a good idea.
So in my 5E version of al-qadim all giants, djinni, marid, efreet and dao are Jinn and they are all inter-related. They would all have the ability to travel to the elemental worlds and maybe have etherealness as well. To balance this they should have a vulnerability to being commanded and bound. Maybe anyone with an arcane background should be able to command or bind them using the cleric's rules for turning and destroying undead.
I'm doing something similar in one of my campaign setting concepts. See, typical kitchen sink fantasy throws in creatures from world mythology without any attempt at a cohesive cosmology. My idea was to create a
cohesive cosmology with creatures inspired by world mythologies, using comparative mythology as the bridge. My campaign setting is based primarily on Indo-European mythology (http://piereligion.org/pantheon.html), but does take inspirations from Middle Eastern and East Asian sources. The genies, fairies, etc are just different names for the same concepts. They generally (https://ogresvstrolls.wordpress.com/tag/dwarves-gnomes/) fall into two broad groupings (http://humoncomics.com/not-a-fairy) based on their nature and behavior: gods/demons/spirits and hidden folk.
The gods/demons/spirits are the personifications of agency ascribed to impersonal natural forces like weather, land, moonlight, disease, and abstract concepts by the animist philosophy that underlies all religious thought. The divinities and cthonic demons of Greek myth, the fair folk of post-Christian Europe, and the yokai of Japan are examples. They
aren't people.
By contrast, the hidden folk live similar lives to humans, though hidden from humans. They may live in other worlds, possess great powers, and have other oddities, but otherwise they are basically comparable to humans. They live, eat, reproduce, die, etc. They
are people.
The genies, when imagined as a race between mortal and divine, fit into the latter category.
Sometimes it can be difficult to distinguish the two. For example, gods/demons/spirits may be able to sire demigod offspring onto mortals.
Quote from: Shasarak;1127017I would have hired Lawie McLawface myself.
I based him on a real guy I know. Last name Law, is a lawyer by profession. Court staff call him the lawman. With a name like that you expect to see some badass fusion of cowboy and lawyer.... alas he's like 0% cowboy.
Quote from: tenbones;1127052I have mixed feelings about it. Not that I don't stand by the work, but that the editing process *reeeeaaallly* broke my back starting with this feature going forward and ultimately ended my run as a "go to" feature writer for Dragon... and my descending dislike for 3.x...
Do you have your original work? If so, what about adapting it for 5e and publishing it via DM's Guild?
Quote from: Spinachcat;1127099Do you have your original work? If so, what about adapting it for 5e and publishing it via DM's Guild?
I have it all on one of my archived backup drives. Conversion from 3.x to 5e would probably take more effort than simply doing a whole new re-write. And honestly, 5e's sensibilities are no more friendly to my current ideas on how I'd do "D&D" than 3.x was. I have different ideas on what D&D "should be" in play, and frankly it's not worth my effort since I don't run 5e. When I was running 5e, my campaign was set in Calimshan and I think I started doing a conversion for Djinn-pact Warlocks WAAAY early on as well as the "Sha'ir" class. I'd have to look around in my archive, it's probably horribly out of date by current standards.
It also probably doesn't help that I personally have no desire to contribute to DM's Guild or WotC.
How about an OSR not-Qadim game instead?
Quote from: Spinachcat;1127191How about an OSR not-Qadim game instead?
Any suggestions?
I might post my Mythras Al Qadim conversion a bit later, if people are interested.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1124664The following post gets a bit rambling, so excuse that.
Even the faux medieval "European" settings bear no resemblance to any real European culture in any historical period. When was the last time you saw a faux European fantasy setting with believable countries distinguished by cultures, languages, fashions, etc?
Dark Albion (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/152351/Dark-Albion-The-Rose-War).
Quote from: RPGPundit;1127560Dark Albion (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/152351/Dark-Albion-The-Rose-War).
I stand corrected. How common would you say settings with that depth of world building are?
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1127580I stand corrected. How common would you say settings with that depth of world building are?
Extremely rare. You need to have settings that are based on the real world for that.