I'm sitting here at star bucks, working on my home brew Pathfinder world. This is the first time I've tried to develop anything for the Arabic portion, the Hezzesheol. Other than the little I picked up about pre-Islamic Arabia in my history of Islam class, I don't know a whole fucking lot about it (although I'm a quick study when it comes to getting the short of something off of Wikipedia).

I went to the LFGS and picked up this comic:



Sense I don't feel like reading 1001 Nights just yet (;

I bring all this up because, while I was there, I noticed they have a copy of the original Al-Qadim campaign setting book. I would have snatched it up, knowing that I was going to start working on this, but they want 30 dollars for it.

I feel pretty confident that I can read a little about the ancient world, mythology, and warfare, and put together something convincing. A lot of times RP supplements are dumb as hell and full of shit. I've read enough bad ones that I have to pause when I see a price tag like that. I've never known anyone that played in that setting.

The back of the book lists a lot of cool stuff. Is it worth getting? Would it help a lot with writing up a Pathfinder / Ancient Arabic setting? Could I get a lot of work done just by converting things from it? Is it historical like the TV show Rome or historical like the TV show Zena?

Quote from: Cranewings;462157I bring all this up because, while I was there, I noticed they have a copy of the original Al-Qadim campaign setting book. I would have snatched it up, knowing that I was going to start working on this, but they want 30 dollars for it.

I feel pretty confident that I can read a little about the ancient world, mythology, and warfare, and put together something convincing. A lot of times RP supplements are dumb as hell and full of shit. I've read enough bad ones that I have to pause when I see a price tag like that. I've never known anyone that played in that setting.

The back of the book lists a lot of cool stuff. Is it worth getting? Would it help a lot with writing up a Pathfinder / Ancient Arabic setting? Could I get a lot of work done just by converting things from it? Is it historical like the TV show Rome or historical like the TV show Zena?

The setting stuff is a pretty skeletal overview - nothing you couldn't get from primary sources with a little work. It's not historical; there are Orcs hanging out in the bazaar and ancient cities of the Yak Folk. Some character archetypes you could rework into feats or PrCs if you wanted to. I think the magic chapters are interesting and have some cool content that I made a lot of use of in the 2e days. So overall while I think it was decently well done it's not a crucial book. Some of the expansions for the line were good - I liked Cities of Bone and there are some concepts worth adapting in the Sha'ir book, but they don't depend on the core book either.

But frankly what you want to do is read the 1,001 nights after all. That is RPG gold.

Quote from: Cole;462159The setting stuff is a pretty skeletal overview - nothing you couldn't get from primary sources with a little work. It's not historical; there are Orcs hanging out in the bazaar and ancient cities of the Yak Folk. Some character archetypes you could rework into feats or PrCs if you wanted to. I think the magic chapters are interesting and have some cool content that I made a lot of use of in the 2e days. So overall while I think it was decently well done it's not a crucial book. Some of the expansions for the line were good - I liked Cities of Bone and there are some concepts worth adapting in the Sha'ir book, but they don't depend on the core book either.

But frankly what you want to do is read the 1,001 nights after all. That is RPG gold.

I've got two novels I keep picking at, but me and my fiancee just got a house and I just had finals - so studying and painting have destroyed my pleasure reading. I really should read it, I know.

Side question - I can't find anything on line about early Arabic warfare. Besides riding dromedaries and shooting arrows, what did they do? Its so easy to find information on Persia and Greece. There isn't much on Arabia.

Quote from: Cranewings;462160I've got two novels I keep picking at, but me and my fiancee just got a house and I just had finals - so studying and painting have destroyed my pleasure reading. I really should read it, I know.

Fair enough; on the up side it is a collection of tales you can read a bit at a time.

Quote from: Cranewings;462160Side question - I can't find anything on line about early Arabic warfare. Besides riding dromedaries and shooting arrows, what did they do? Its so easy to find information on Persia and Greece. There isn't much on Arabia.

I am in no way an expert on this period so I'm not sure about a good online source for the equipment and fighting techniques of the armies, if that's what you are asking. Maybe go to a local library and see if they can get you some of the relevant Osprey volumes through Borrow Direct?

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/Armies-of-the-Muslim-Conquest-_9781855322790

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/The-Armies-of-Islam-7th%E2%80%9311th-Centuries_9780850454482

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/store/Saladin-and-the-Saracens_9780850456820

This is late but might interest you nonetheless, (excerpts from) "A Mamluk Manual of War from the Fourteenth Century"

Possibly relevant wiki articles that might help you find sources :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine%E2%80%93Arab_Wars

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umayyad_conquest_of_Hispania

Cole, thanks for the links. I wouldn't have thought of finding those books in particular. Sometime in the future I'm certain to run a game set in the crusades.

This game world, I've been pretty consistent with setting the technology level around 300 B.C. for all of the cultures. That's been the problem with reading about Arabia. Its so overshadowed by the Greeks and Persians, its hard to find anything on Google.

You might also check out True20's Tales of the Caliphate Nights if you can find it. The story-within-story stuff is pretty awesome.

So. can we see this when you are done with it Cranewings? I'm a sucker for good Arabian fantasy stuff. I loved Al Qadim since it was rather interesting for its time. Now I'd like something mind expanding. Write it!


Maybe someone will do an Arabic setting for High Valor...

Silver Lion, this is all I got done tonight. Going to bed, but I have a start:

Overview

   Hezzesheol is the name given to the great north-eastern desert by men the world over. It is a vast, dangerous, inhospitable land whose culture is born from hardship. Only a tiny portion of the southern land provides fertile valleys which support agriculture and therefore, permanent settlements and kingdoms. Much of the rest of the land is populated by rugged nomads and herders. The people of Hezzesheol do not see themselves as a single people, but as different tribes and kingdoms, each with its own religion, material culture, and way of life.

   The prosperous southern region is ruled by three kingdoms. Once unified, each kingdom is now ruled by the descendants of the first king, King Muhsin. His sons successfully established hereditary monarchies which have endured for 12 generations. In the interest of peace, the three families have intermarried since their inception.

The three kingdoms are tied together militarily, as well as politically. For fear of the Zathurm in the south and the nomadic tribes to their north, each kingdom has dedicated itself to the construction of beautiful but fearsome palaces along their borders. In the north, each town is fortified by walls and earthworks. In the south, the few clear mountain passes are guarded by great fortresses. Like the walls of Troy, they rise into the sky and provide a formidable barrier to even King Kamram the Godly.

A fourth kingdom of mysterious power and beauty exists in the desert land’s north east. A peninsula of life that claims a portion of the desert is home to a godly people that believe the desert was given life as a gift for their righteousness. There, the golden citadel looms over the land – a tower of pure gold raised into the sky to honor the sun and speak to the sun’s glory.

While the kingdoms in the south are peacefully aligned, a vicious war for control over the trade routes has raged between the merchant guilds, kings, and thieves’ guilds. The mountain passes are virtually impossible to watch and so tradesmen are forced to pay a high price for protection if they wish to sell their wares for Hezzesheol gold. The merchant guilds are not just at war with the thieves or maneuvering for political recognition; they are at war with one another.

Quote from: Cranewings;462163Cole, thanks for the links. I wouldn't have thought of finding those books in particular. Sometime in the future I'm certain to run a game set in the crusades.

This game world, I've been pretty consistent with setting the technology level around 300 B.C. for all of the cultures. That's been the problem with reading about Arabia. Its so overshadowed by the Greeks and Persians, its hard to find anything on Google.

Oh, I missed that by "early" you meant that far back in the past. I guess I was thrown off by the Arabian Nights reference. So you mean like the roughly Hellenic area guys like the nabataean, sabaean, minaean kingdoms, sorry, I don't have any idea about a source specifically about warfare there, anything I know about that is from greek/roman sources to begin with : /

There is an Osprey about the ancient middle east which depicts libyan, syrian, arabian tribal warriors/mercenaries but that deals with a much much earlier period of time and only has the briefest information about each group.

Quote from: JDCorley;462164You might also check out True20's Tales of the Caliphate Nights if you can find it. The story-within-story stuff is pretty awesome.

Interesting - How does the story-within-story aspect play out? Do you have a separate storyteller character and actor character, sort of a modified troupe style?

Cole, I'll look up the osprey stuff. I honestly don't know when Arabian nights is set. I thought it was pre Islamic.

Quote from: Cranewings;462172Cole, I'll look up the osprey stuff. I honestly don't know when Arabian nights is set. I thought it was pre Islamic.

When it is set is not a question with an easy answer since it collects/adapts tales from many times and not all are of arabic origin. The collection probably comes from 10th century at least some form of it.

Which version of the Arabian Nights is recommended?
The only version I've ever owned is basically a children's book from the '30s... so I'd imagine there were more extensive and accurate translations available.

Penguin books has recently done a very good translation of the tales. It comes in three volumes and is available in paperback. Later this year they will republish the hardback version (hoping the folks get this for me for Christmas; have been dropping hints.)

If you don't want to tackle the entire collection of tales, there's a very good translation of a selection of the tales by Husain Haddawy. Its listed on Amazon for 12.95. Another book to consider is The Arabian Nights: A Companion by Robert Irwin. I just finished reading this a few weeks ago and its a very interesting look at the Tales and what they tell us about the early Arabian cultures which spawned them. Using the Tales as a starting point he talks about the criminal underclass, views about magic and the supernatural world, an average citizens place in the society and, of course, the role of the professional storyteller. There's a ton of stuff you can lift from that one resource.

Dunno if this is useful but
http://www.al-qadim.com/
(under submissions) has a 2E/3E conversion guide and a netbook (among other things) that may be interesting.

Quote from: Cranewings;462157I'm sitting here at star bucks, working on my home brew Pathfinder world. This is the first time I've tried to develop anything for the Arabic portion, the Hezzesheol. Other than the little I picked up about pre-Islamic Arabia in my history of Islam class, I don't know a whole fucking lot about it (although I'm a quick study when it comes to getting the short of something off of Wikipedia).

I went to the LFGS and picked up this comic:



Sense I don't feel like reading 1001 Nights just yet (;

I bring all this up because, while I was there, I noticed they have a copy of the original Al-Qadim campaign setting book. I would have snatched it up, knowing that I was going to start working on this, but they want 30 dollars for it.

I feel pretty confident that I can read a little about the ancient world, mythology, and warfare, and put together something convincing. A lot of times RP supplements are dumb as hell and full of shit. I've read enough bad ones that I have to pause when I see a price tag like that. I've never known anyone that played in that setting.

The back of the book lists a lot of cool stuff. Is it worth getting? Would it help a lot with writing up a Pathfinder / Ancient Arabic setting? Could I get a lot of work done just by converting things from it? Is it historical like the TV show Rome or historical like the TV show Zena?

The AD&D setting is good if you don't want to research and build your own campaign. Like others have said it isn't historical. But it works great for Arabian Nights style campaigns.

I've run both al-Qadim and a more authentic campaign based on real history. In my experience it was much easier for the players to grasp the al-Qadim setting than it was to grasp the historical one (even though I layered it with myth and supernatural). I think people felt more obligated to understand the history and culture of the authentic setting. al-Qadim is simplified and tweaked enough that its pretty digestible (in terms of grasping the key cultural differences and key setting concepts quickly).

For what its worthy my authentic setting completely nosedived. Between the names, the detailed cultural and historical context, etc, the players just had a hard time keeping pace with things (though most of this was definitely my own fault in how I presented things).