I know what the difference is.

Do you? Tell me. I need help articulating it.

One isn't constrained by dungeon walls?

What's an 'adventure game'?

When is a dungeon crawl not an adventure game?

If you can answer that, you're more than halfway home.  Here's a start:

A dungeon crawl is only an adventure game when its moving parts interact with one another.  Killing the acolytes in room 3b will trigger a change in the behavior of the high priest's guards in rooms 6 to 9.

Briefly and dogmatically: A dungeon crawl is never by itself an adventure game, but it may be part of one. An adventure game is about roaming a whole world. In order for a dungeon crawl to be part of an adventure game it must be part of that world. QED

A dungeon crawl is going through a dungeon.  

An "adventure game" is a made up piece of jargon, or a type of computer game that involves a lot of puzzles that make no sense if you aren't on drugs.

Settembrini is the "expert" here with his preaching the gospel of ARS (AbenteuerRollenSpiel), however he's off writing a module for Module Writing Month.

I'd have thought that a dungeon crawl was a possible type of Adventure Game, but Pierce's idea that a DC is only a component of an Adventure Game makes sense.

I don't know if you'd agree with Sett's idea anyway--whatever it is. Calithena, maybe you could at least put up some of your ideas, or few "games" that fall on either side of the line in your opinion.

Quote from: J Arcanea type of computer game that involves a lot of puzzles that make no sense if you aren't on drugs.

B-But I liked Syberia...

You guys are kidding - right??

An Adventure Game ? - thats a much debated phrase that means different things to dfferent people. (sadly its also a phrase that gets mis-appropriated from tme to time )

 Dungeon Crawl - thats what happens when the bad guys all have archers or all the traps are set at eye-level or rigged to chop the heads off of adventurers - you better start crawling through that "dungeon".


- Ed C.

Adventure Games - The only way to game

Dungeon Crawls - see adventure games

Anything else/Thematic/Story Games - The wrong way to game or go fuck yourself with a stick

Regards,
David R

This thread productive for you so far, Cal?

This is foolish.

Most roleplaying games are adventure games. An adventure game is one where the characters go places and do stuff.

This is opposition to the thematic game which is about characters that have feelings and issues.

A dungeon crawl is a subset of the adventure game because it always involves going places and doing stuff.

"Adventure game" is not a meaningful term; for starters, it doesn't refer to a commonly agreed thing.

Quote from: Melan"Adventure game" is not a meaningful term; for starters, it doesn't refer to a commonly agreed thing.

Well said. Especially it begs the question that if a game isn't about adventure, what is it about then? Is DitV not about an adventure? Agon? The weekend where the players all just sat on the council of S'pfhreathul, deciding about the future of the Thirteen Allied Fiefdoms?

Quote from: Melan"Adventure game" is not a meaningful term; for starters, it doesn't refer to a commonly agreed thing.

That never stopped the Forge...

-clash

The question is bogus as long as we don't know what a adventure game is. I've made up a definition for myself, but a.) it is only in German (and exact translation would be a hell) and b.) I smashed a lot of heads about that definition with Sett on the German BBS', so I guess it isn't universal usable.

Now, I define adventure gaming as a gaming style where tactical player performance (as opposed to character performance), hard-won victories (as opposed to "the story the GM fudges") and competition against the obstacles and the try to show off as a valuable player are main elements.

Now, according to that definition, I can think of dungeon crawls that aren't adventure gaming. For instance, if the GM fudges behind the screen, changes secretly enemy stats and does other Illusionism stuff, the value of the player performance is discarded, and cheaty-storytelling takes over. I don't know mof English examples, but I've seen that a lot in TDE dungeons.
I can also think of dungeon-crawls that are basically interactive stories. For instance, I remember a Earthdawn adventure I've played where a Kaern and the entry of it played a important role, but there didn't adventury stuff happen. It was more about convincing the dwellers that we aren't demons and to free them from their now needless hideout.