So, I know there are several projects of AD&D2 clones out there. One of them is titled "For Gold & Glory". I just found out that the PHB and DMG materials for the retroclone are 100% complete at this point, with the MM material being at 5% completion, with steady progress.
The Rich Text Document of the rules so far can be found on that site (http://feysquare.com/?page_id=3).
Synchronicity. :)
I just found this game and website last night and downloaded it. I'm looking forward to reading through it.
Huh.
I wouldn't have thought there'd be much of a market for such a thing, but there we are!
(not trying to start an edition war here, I'm happy for 2e fans)
Yeah, that's my point of view as well. If anything, I would have actually liked to see a 2nd ed OSRIC Companion of some sort. I didn't think that several 2nd ed projects would come up (and honestly, I think there are too many people coming up with new retroclones now rather than adding to existing ones their own takes on them), but I do know there are some big 2nd ed fans around here so... I guess the game can find some aficionados here. :)
Quote from: Benoist;410778Yeah, that's my point of view as well. If anything, I would have actually liked to see a 2nd ed OSRIC Companion of some sort. I didn't think that several 2nd ed projects would come up (and honestly, I think there are too many people coming up with new retroclones now rather than adding to existing ones their own takes on them), but I do know there are some big 2nd ed fans around here so... I guess the game can find some aficionados here. :)
I know a couple of big 2e fans over at DF were absolutely convinced that OSRIC was "illegal" (which was ridiculous on so many levels, of course it isn't "illegal") - I'm not sure how big of an influence they may or may not have been on the 2e community, but regardless (if 2e is what 2e fans like) I'm glad they've shaken that off if it indeed was a factor and are getting what they want...
Myth & Magic was the other 2e clone I had heard of: http://www.newhavengames.com/
If Gold & Glory is going for "hot 'n ready" then Myth & Magic looks like they'll win the slow, pretty merit badge. I only managed to glance over the current free document but it looks like they might be going for an "inspired by 2e" game and then creating some new rules. Maybe someone with more time could poke it a bit further.
Watch in another decade or so, there will be more than a thousand retro clones which replicates older editions of any and all rpgs which ever existed (and many variations). :cool:
Quote from: ggroy;410789Watch in another decade or so, there will be more than a thousand retro clones which replicates older editions of any and all rpgs which ever existed (and many variations). :cool:
I as a joke said "Oh I want to see a Dragons of Underearth retro-clone, ha ha ha" (I didn't understand the lineage between DoU and TFT) and lo and behold there's a TFT clone!
Quote from: thedungeondelver;410771I wouldn't have thought there'd be much of a market for such a thing, but there we are!
With AD&D 2e the dominant game of it's era, like AD&D 1e was, it only a matter of time before interest in a retro-clone developed.
First we will see nostalgia and folks who never quit buy stuff. Followed by a expanding network of new fans.
How long before we see a white-wolf retro-clone. Granted there a couple of more problems like the lack of an open gaming base and that the game was setting heavy. But I bet a fan community will develop within the decade if not sooner along with developing an alt-world of darkness.
It's a tossup for me on which edition I played most between B/X and 2e. B/X holds a special place in my heart because it was my first introduction to RPGs but 2e gave me my first adventure publishing credits through Dungeon so I'll probably give a serious clone a look. My only real issue with 2e was its system inconsistencies. Like having a character who can only be surprised on a 1 on 1d6 encounter a monster who surprises 50% of the time. Sure, I can do the math and convert but I shouldn't have to! :-)
Pete
Something else feels different about this current batch of clones: Do you think it matters that most of the 2e library can still be bought and sold online for peanuts? My own books are in great condition, even though they saw heavy use (probably because everyone had their own copies of the PHB and we "went through" a few). But really, on Amazon or whatever it looks like the core books are going for just a few dollars unless you want "new" or "collectible" condition.
I mean, I dig that part of the push for cloning is to strike up enthusiasm, a community, and a new generation of support. If all those things follow the clones, I think that's great.
But it does feel a little different somehow to go clone when the original is so accessible. Maybe I'm just getting too old to feel this is retro yet. Or something.
Quote from: winkingbishop;410814Something else feels different about this current batch of clones: Do you think it matters that most of the 2e library can still be bought and sold online for peanuts? My own books are in great condition, even though they saw heavy use (probably because everyone had their own copies of the PHB and we "went through" a few). But really, on Amazon or whatever it looks like the core books are going for just a few dollars unless you want "new" or "collectible" condition.
I mean, I dig that part of the push for cloning is to strike up enthusiasm, a community, and a new generation of support. If all those things follow the clones, I think that's great.
But it does feel a little different somehow to go clone when the original is so accessible.
Yeah AD&D can be bought for peanuts too but the 2e clones - and I swear I'm not making this up, there's a 3.0 clone out there somewhere (not Pathfinder, either) - do feel a little unstuck in time.
Sooner or later someone is going to get confused and do a Labyrinth Lord clone.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;410930Sooner or later someone is going to get confused and do a Labyrinth Lord clone.
RPGPundit
"A simpler game to revisit the heydays of the first half of 2010, when rules were simpler and dammit you could just sit down and
game with some friends using PDFs and
3g iPhones before the whole hobby became swamped with people who wanted to drag in a bunch of irrelevant mush."
Quote from: RPGPundit;410930Sooner or later someone is going to get confused and do a Labyrinth Lord clone.
RPGPundit
Tom Moldvay did that! Sooner...much sooner, in fact. :)
It's pretty awesome that he found the time and energy to do this because it's a huge project. I was thinking of doing it, but haven't had enough time/energy. So, it's great that someone finally did it.
I can't wait for this to be finished.
2e is my favourite edition of D&D by far.
2e -- the high watermark of fantasy roleplaying.
Someone wondered if this is worthwhile because of the used book market.
a) Lots of people don't like used, grubby books.
b) Lots of people don't have access to a store that would have them. I couldn't even find a complete set at the largest game store in Canada.
c) Lots of people don't like to use ebay.
d) PDF is convenient, free, and can be printed.
Without a retro-clone, the game seems dead to most people. With a retro-clone, it's alive again -- come join the party. Some people don't see it this way, but many do.
Ah, the table describing the paladin's spellcasting progression is missing...
5 years later, I find the links presented are dead.
Even if I'm only looking for 2E-compatible monsters, having the PHB and DMG but no MC.
I'll only care if it has my favorite 2nd Ed. art in it: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0149/6074/files/DMG_2nd_Edition_Sorceress_large.jpg?515
Quote from: Jame Rowe;8356875 years later, I find the links presented are dead.
Even if I'm only looking for 2E-compatible monsters, having the PHB and DMG but no MC.
http://www.lulu.com/shop/justen-brown/for-gold-glory/ebook/product-21832476.html
Raven, thank you. I'll look at it eventually.
Quote from: Matt;835688I'll only care if it has my favorite 2nd Ed. art in it: http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0149/6074/files/DMG_2nd_Edition_Sorceress_large.jpg?515
That is damn good art.
Quote from: 1989;410998It's pretty awesome that he found the time and energy to do this because it's a huge project. I was thinking of doing it, but haven't had enough time/energy. So, it's great that someone finally did it.
I can't wait for this to be finished.
2e is my favourite edition of D&D by far.
2e -- the high watermark of fantasy roleplaying.
Someone wondered if this is worthwhile because of the used book market.
a) Lots of people don't like used, grubby books.
b) Lots of people don't have access to a store that would have them. I couldn't even find a complete set at the largest game store in Canada.
c) Lots of people don't like to use ebay.
d) PDF is convenient, free, and can be printed.
Without a retro-clone, the game seems dead to most people. With a retro-clone, it's alive again -- come join the party. Some people don't see it this way, but many do.
A 2E clone done right (i.e. not tacking a homebrew or variant skill system on in place of proficiencies, and properly integrating kits) would be awesome. Right now the top problem with 2E as a fan is that it's spread out over two dozen handbooks, and they do indeed get grubby and unpleasant...and 2E often had more than one rule or approach to many of the additional content options that came later.
A good 2E clone needs to emulate the core 3 + account for the stuff that everyone used which made 2E so distinct (kits, priests of specific mythoi, proficiencies, all those great combat rules in the Fighter's Handbook, wild magic, so forth) and if someone does that I'll be quite happy to shift over to their retroclone instead of trying to recover the couple dozen 2E books over which the info is currently spread.
Quote from: Raven;835691http://www.lulu.com/shop/justen-brown/for-gold-glory/ebook/product-21832476.html
Perusing right now...this looks great.
(by great I mean: a great retroclone of 2E. The art is terrifying)
Quote from: RPGPundit;410930Sooner or later someone is going to get confused and do a Labyrinth Lord clone.
RPGPundit
Pretty sure thats happened allready... :banghead:
The art in that version is pretty bad. There is also an art free LaTex version floating around as well. One thing of note with FG&G, the spell list is probably better than the TSR edition. I recall the FG&G editor talking about how he had to spend a lot of time working on the spell list. Apparently, much of it was copy pasted from 1e/UA and was not revised to be 2e compliant. I believe the entire document is OGL, so if you want to bake in some options (or in another document) please feel free to do so.
IIRC, there are also complete 2e spells, monsters, dieties and equipment files floating.
Had a quick glance over. Overall the art is not bad really. Some of the shading/colour work though somewhat diminishes a few pieces.
A glance through the various sections shows zero attempt to change the names of anything. So it comes off as more like a bootleg than an OSR in that respect.
It is though well organized and easy to read and someone put some effort into compiling all this.
Quote from: Teazia;835769The art in that version is pretty bad. There is also an art free LaTex version floating around as well. One thing of note with FG&G, the spell list is probably better than the TSR edition. I recall the FG&G editor talking about how he had to spend a lot of time working on the spell list. Apparently, much of it was copy pasted from 1e/UA and was not revised to be 2e compliant. I believe the entire document is OGL, so if you want to bake in some options (or in another document) please feel free to do so.
IIRC, there are also complete 2e spells, monsters, dieties and equipment files floating.
I would like to know where I can find these as I'm looking for dieties.
Quote from: estar;410805How long before we see a white-wolf retro-clone. Granted there a couple of more problems like the lack of an open gaming base and that the game was setting heavy. But I bet a fan community will develop within the decade if not sooner along with developing an alt-world of darkness.
I'm not sure you'd get quite the same deal going on for precisely the reasons you outline. Whilst you could put out a system an awful lot like Storyteller provided you changed enough terminology and presentation to avoid infringing copyright, the real problem you'd have would be that WW fans tended to be fans of the setting far more than they were attached to the system itself.
For those that are keen on the setting, a generic version with the trademarks filed off would feel like the cheap imitation that it was. For those that aren't, there's been
heaps of modern-day occult/urban fantasy games published ever since
Vampire came out (and indeed before) - Immortal, Fireborn, Legacy, Unknown Armies, Witchcraft, Pandemonio, Kult, and so on and so on - and so there's always been a release valve for that sort of desire.
If anything, I would say that the White Wolf nostalgia boom is already here in the form of Onyx Path's 20th Anniversary lines of the old World of Darkness games (which so far I've found to be greatly superior in execution to the originals).
EDIT: Oops - didn't read the date tagline on the post. Estar gets some prophetic points for calling the upcoming CWoD revival, I guess.
Quote from: Raven;835691http://www.lulu.com/shop/justen-brown/for-gold-glory/ebook/product-21832476.html
Excellent, now I can mark my adventure "Designed for FG&G and compatible systems"
Maybe I'm just *really* lucky but within the past two weeks I have found at yard sales: 1E Player's Handbook (2nd printing), *two* copies of the 1E Monster Manual, 1E Deities & Demigods (the Cthulhu edition), 2E Player's Handbook, The Red Book and B2 Borderlands module. I paid a total of $7. I just don't see a 'market' for clones I guess.
Quote from: Tetsubo;841265Maybe I'm just *really* lucky but within the past two weeks I have found at yard sales: 1E Player's Handbook (2nd printing), *two* copies of the 1E Monster Manual, 1E Deities & Demigods (the Cthulhu edition), 2E Player's Handbook, The Red Book and B2 Borderlands module. I paid a total of $7. I just don't see a 'market' for clones I guess.
Maybe I need to check yard sales for frequently, but I've never seen any of those things around here. I only see stuff like this in gaming stores that also sell used games - I recently saw the 2e PHB for $50, and the Mentzer Companion set for $75.
That said, making the rules available isn't the main point of most retro-clones. Usually, the first aim is to use the OGL to help publishers release new materials for "dead" games (this is explicitly the aim of OSRIC, Labyrinth Lord, and I believe Swords & Wizardry). The second aim is usually to tidy things up a bit and/or present some house rules that modify the game in a particular way.