Quote from: SettembriniEDIT: I´m positive though that moving away from department and toy stores reduced the sales.

For the basic boxes, definitely. Possibly even for adventures. Freaky completists (that a word?) buy it wherever it's sold.
Did it decrease the amount of gamers by the same ratio? Don't quite think so.

Also it would be interesting to know the ratio between DSA3 stick-in-the-muds and AD&D 1E/2E players (both compared to the current edition of the game).

Also, you have to consider that there was a TV-COMERCIAL for the first Edition of DSA. That should have helped getting these sales-figures a little bit.

QuoteNope. Translation is okay, but no forthcoming supplements. Game line is dead, they've got a new publisher who probably won't do a new English version. The fourth edition game system sucks anyway...

Acctualy - we don´t have the license to do an english version. That license is still with the original company. But i also think, that there won´t be any new products for english DSA.

Wait a minute. I distinctly remember there being an English translation of the game that was just recently made available. Am I mistaken? :confused:

Just to muddy up the waters a bit more regarding these sales numbers...

When dealing with the book trade, selling to major chain bookstores instead of smaller FLGS', third party distributors and game companies are usually under contract to buy back any books sold to a chain bookstore that do not move off the shelf fast enough. This can kill both third party distributors and game companies, and is cited by Joe Fugate as one of the reasons GDW went out of business (see the Citizens of the Imperium forum for Q&A session). Now you may report a sale to the distributor and then the chain bookstore, but then you have to acknowledge a return if that previous sold book doesn't move - which screws up your numbers.

Quote from: Silent PatAlso, you have to consider that there was a TV-COMERCIAL for the first Edition of DSA. That should have helped getting these sales-figures a little bit.

Dude, did it include THE MASK? That alone would be enough reason for at least 40000 boxes sold.

Hmm, wasn't there advertising for the fourth edition, too? Or did I confuse that with the cellphone games? (Which apperantly sold like hotcakes)

Quote from: Silent PatAcctualy - we don´t have the license to do an english version. That license is still with the original company. But i also think, that there won´t be any new products for english DSA.

Maybe WotC needs a new setting

Quote from: Sacrificial LambWait a minute. I distinctly remember there being an English translation of the game that was just recently made available. Am I mistaken? :confused:

Depends what "recently" means to you.

The newest book was released at Gencon last year. There are now three english books available - the ruelbook, an adventure and a "light" setting. I really don´t think, that there will be any new books soon.

In germany we have - 4 ruleboxes (changing to hardcover at this moment), half a dozend supplemental rulebooks, 9 setting hardcovers and 150 published adventures (including a lot of very successful solos). And it is still expanding (there are at least 4 more setting books to come for example)

It is almost impossible to translate the success of DSA from germany to the USA. Aventurien has grown into the gameworld that it is today. All the players already know this world (sometimes better than the authors).

Quote from: SosthenesHmm, wasn't there advertising for the fourth edition, too? Or did I confuse that with the cellphone games? (Which apperantly sold like hotcakes)

It probably was for the cellphone solos. And, yes - they also sold very well (but unfortunatly- different license, different people that earn money;) )

Quote from: Silent PatDepends what "recently" means to you.

The newest book was released at Gencon last year. There are now three english books available - the ruelbook, an adventure and a "light" setting. I really don´t think, that there will be any new books soon.

In germany we have - 4 ruleboxes (changing to hardcover at this moment), half a dozend supplemental rulebooks, 9 setting hardcovers and 150 published adventures (including a lot of very successful solos). And it is still expanding (there are at least 4 more setting books to come for example)

It is almost impossible to translate the success of DSA from germany to the USA. Aventurien has grown into the gameworld that it is today. All the players already know this world (sometimes better than the authors).

Is the English translation at least....umm....an ACCURATE translation? If it is, I'd like to see what 100,000 Germans are excited about.

Quote from: Sacrificial LambIs the English translation at least....umm....an ACCURATE translation? If it is, I'd like to see what 100,000 Germans are excited about.

The problem with this is, that the german gamers are NOT excited about the rules, but about the setting.

The english setting book is really only a "light" version.

As already said, there are 9 setting-books  so far, so the one english book won´t give you the whole "feeling" for the setting. There is also a bi-monthly magazine just with in-game information about the different kingdoms, baronys etc... It´s really a living, breathing world which can´t properly be translated into another language this way

Quote from: Silent PatIt´s really a living, breathing world which can´t properly be translated into another language this way

Not without some effort. Other settings manage to do that, mostly coming the other way 'round.

Not that the world is finding _new_ fans in Germany anyway... It's a rather incestuous community.

Quote from: SosthenesNot that the world is finding _new_ fans in Germany anyway... It's a rather incestuous community.

That, my friend, is your subjective opinion - and totaly wrong, by the way

Quote from: Silent PatThat, my friend, is your subjective opinion - and totaly wrong, by the way

I'd like to heart about the contrary. In general I think that role-playing games seem to have hit a hump, i.e. not that much growth in general.
I'm not even talking about sold products, but the amount of players. Please tell me I'm too pessimistic

Quote from: SosthenesI'm not even talking about sold products, but the amount of players. Please tell me I'm too pessimistic

Oh, that´s not what i meant to say. You are not to pessimistic - the hobby is shrinking :mad:  But you stating that DSA gamers are a incestuous comunity is not correct (to be honest, i was thinking the same thing a couple of month ago ).

There are people leaving the hobby, but there are also coming new gamers. The Starter-Box (or the new Starter-HC) always was and still is the best-selling product, even if it´s only useful for beginners and not necessary to play "real" DSA. We also had a poll concerning the average age in the gaming groups - the result was quite surprisingly that there are many groups with an average age of 20 or less...

My hint: Enable new and budding players to make their own modules.

Quote from: Silent PatOh, that´s not what i meant to say. You are not to pessimistic - the hobby is shrinking :mad:  But you stating that DSA gamers are a incestuous comunity is not correct (to be honest, i was thinking the same thing a couple of month ago ).

Just my experience. While there might be new players, there aren't that many _new groups_, i.e. not many people buying the box(es) and starting something new.

Quote from: Silent PatWe also had a poll concerning the average age in the gaming groups - the result was quite surprisingly that there are many groups with an average age of 20 or less...

Many groups age 12-15? That was the starting age back then. Some people started even younger and there were special games for young adolescents (the blue box and the literary adventures). So a 20-ish group today was a young one 8 years ago.