I run a small YT channel for fun (not selling anything) and I am subscribed to a number of RPG related channels, so YT feeds me recommendations in that area

I noticed that a lot of these accounts look the same: even the guys running them look and sound the same (long hair, thin, makeup on, someone filming them, etc.). I then noticed that they had very high view and subscriber counts, even though their content was imho low-quality and pedestrian. Topics would include "how to create suspense in your DND game"! (yeah, like 10k channels with that same video in them), or "how to handle player inventory"! (sounds pretty boring to me, so I don't get the 20k views)

So I went back in time and checked their earliest videos to see how the channels grew. Two things I noticed:

1. Guys like "Bonus Action" have over 500k views and hundreds of subs on their very first YT upload. Even with people going back to check out his earlier videos, this does NOT happen (YT algo isn't going to recommend a new channel to 10 million people on first upload--ever), unless you are a musician accidentally going viral. His first video was basically an expose on other YT personalities like Matt Mercer, Brian Murphy, etc.

2. Another channel "Castle Caster" got very few views on his first couple of uploads. Then he did a video on Brian Murphy and Matt Mercer, along with links to those channels in the video and description. His views exploded from 250 to 14,000.

I identified 4-5 other 5e-related accounts all doing the same thing. It also happened within 2-3 months of the others. Sometimes on the same day.

This is called influencer farming and algorithm manipulation, and YT doesn't like it. I suspect there is a group of YT personalities (they look like they are all in the same studio, using the same equipment, etc.) working with big, established channels to push WOTC products. "New guy" comes in, posts a video linking to Murphy, Mercer, Guy, whoever, and the big channels then promotes the smaller ones through callouts, links, interviews, or backroom external views.

Why is this important? Simple, it shows that the popularity and hype around WOTC 5e is manufactured and bullish*. The guys listed above have crappy channels--people aren't watching them for good content: they are being directed to the channels from elsewhere, and many of the views are external/fake (I wouldn't put it past WOTC to have server farms in India generate views and subs for these channels)

Now some of these guys are complaining that they aren't getting the views, subs, and revenue they were getting before. Guy made a video declaring he was going to quit. "Bonus Action" just posted a video saying he was also quitting

no one with 50k to 3 million subs "quits" YT. Something else is going on. Either WOTC is no longer supporting these guys through back channels, or YT is coming down on them with threats or a ban hammer.

WOTC 5e isn't popular because it is good. It is popular because of nonsense like this: advertising, social media manipulation, shady tactics, and fake hype.

I wouldn't put it past WotC to do this, but it sounds more like a hunch. We would need some more proof to support the theory.

It still won't transfer into sales so fuck 'em.

Shadiversity actually had a recent section on Youtube monetization, and in it he referred to a D&D Youtuber who said he was stuck being suppressed by the algorithm, and that his representative said (more likely implied) that this was a permanent and intentional policy decision. At fist I suspected that D&D 5E Youtube channels were actually the product of a backroom deal between Youtube and Hasbro which was expiring.

But after some reflection I think it's more likely Hasbro had bots watching lots of Youtube D&D content to push Youtube into serving it to the general public more. I am reasonably convinced that someone at WotC or Hasbro maintains a bot network on Reddit, anyways, so maintaining a bot network on Youtube would be a logical extension of the same principles.

Youtube found out and is over-correcting, which is probably going to kill most of Youtube D&D.

I know there's been some discussion especially recently about Youtube not providing much support to Tabletop RPG creators, so that might also have to do with people jumping ship. Dungeon Craft sort of did a video about it here: https://youtu.be/laL0yf1dKfQ?si=dKygsC_vju6J9l8c (I say sort of because he starts discussing it and then spends half the video talking about how he's on that Youtube grind himself)

This is the same company who used AI for illustrations in various products and wouldn't back down until pinned tightly in a corner. They also raided someone's house over some unreleased cards. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

https://www.polygon.com/24029754/wizards-coast-magic-the-gathering-ai-art-marketing-image

https://kotaku.com/mtg-aftermath-leaks-pinkertons-wotc-magic-the-gathering-1850368923

Quote from: Fheredin on February 01, 2025, 08:17:50 AMShadiversity actually had a recent section on Youtube monetization, and in it he referred to a D&D Youtuber who said he was stuck being suppressed by the algorithm, and that his representative said (more likely implied) that this was a permanent and intentional policy decision. At fist I suspected that D&D 5E Youtube channels were actually the product of a backroom deal between Youtube and Hasbro which was expiring.

But after some reflection I think it's more likely Hasbro had bots watching lots of Youtube D&D content to push Youtube into serving it to the general public more. I am reasonably convinced that someone at WotC or Hasbro maintains a bot network on Reddit, anyways, so maintaining a bot network on Youtube would be a logical extension of the same principles.

Youtube found out and is over-correcting, which is probably going to kill most of Youtube D&D.

I think you are correct on the bots

and if WOTC gets caught doing it, Youtube isn't going to do a whole lot, because lots of advertising dollars would be lost

so YT is likely going after the content creators themselves

These could be harvester bot swarms.

This used to be a thing on Yahoo Groups and a channelk could end up infested with literally thousands of the things. They just sat there harvesting member e-mail addresses.

Seems a new generation of these things are on YouTube, except now they comment too. Theres been intermittant discussion of it. Also see them infesting a few manga translation sites.

On top of this Youtube has started actively cutting support of D&D channels and possibly RPG channels in general. Theres been some comment on that as well. Not sure what they mean. But seems to be effecting a few regulars.

Quote from: Omega on February 01, 2025, 08:44:39 PMThese could be harvester bot swarms.

This used to be a thing on Yahoo Groups and a channelk could end up infested with literally thousands of the things. They just sat there harvesting member e-mail addresses.

Seems a new generation of these things are on YouTube, except now they comment too. Theres been intermittant discussion of it. Also see them infesting a few manga translation sites.

On top of this Youtube has started actively cutting support of D&D channels and possibly RPG channels in general. Theres been some comment on that as well. Not sure what they mean. But seems to be effecting a few regulars.

Social media is basically dying. FB is a graveyard of inactive group and users, and it is pretty much all Boomers and some Gen X on there. Instagram is losing popularity, and YT seems to be suffering from a lot of the issues discussed here. Tik Tok looks like it is getting banned for good

I am probably going to outright delete my FB account in the coming days --my group (6300) members is very quiet these days, as I suspect people have moved to other platforms, or simply don't use social media anymore.

Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on February 02, 2025, 11:35:39 AM

Quote from: Omega on February 01, 2025, 08:44:39 PMThese could be harvester bot swarms.

This used to be a thing on Yahoo Groups and a channelk could end up infested with literally thousands of the things. They just sat there harvesting member e-mail addresses.

Seems a new generation of these things are on YouTube, except now they comment too. Theres been intermittant discussion of it. Also see them infesting a few manga translation sites.

On top of this Youtube has started actively cutting support of D&D channels and possibly RPG channels in general. Theres been some comment on that as well. Not sure what they mean. But seems to be effecting a few regulars.

Social media is basically dying. FB is a graveyard of inactive group and users, and it is pretty much all Boomers and some Gen X on there. Instagram is losing popularity, and YT seems to be suffering from a lot of the issues discussed here. Tik Tok looks like it is getting banned for good

I am probably going to outright delete my FB account in the coming days --my group (6300) members is very quiet these days, as I suspect people have moved to other platforms, or simply don't use social media anymore.

FB is dead at its own hand. They lock accounts for absolutely no reason. Yahoo used to do this too and YouTube is still doing it. Ive lost accounts to all three.

TikTok is a cancer festering on and off the net and has actually gotten a few people injured or outright killed. Now these fucks are migrating to YouTube like cockroaches.

On top of that alot of online forums are bleeding themselves out with woke agendas. BGG, RPG.net. ENWorld and others.

Were it still around YahooGroups would likely be even worse now than it was back then.

Even art sites are showing cracks. DA up and stole everyones art to feed to their damn AI. Oh you can block it, or so they claim. But its already taken your art so its like putting on a bulletproof vest after someone shot you.

I expect things will get worse. Especially on youtube.

I'm not sure about that.
I watch a YT channel called "Knights of last Call", Dude usually has long streams about varying topics- from the evolution of classes through editions to first looks of esoteric games. Streams are like 2-3 hours.
Obviousely he's not on the top charts of any YT list, but he talks openly about it and the 5e exposure, how he was watching a new 5e channel "mystic arts" or something like that come up in the scene and pass 20K subs relatively quickly. I watched a few of this guy's videos too- production quality seems high, nothing groundbreaking in presentation or substance but obviousely there's demand for 5e stuff. Even Dungeoncraft says so- much more people watch his 5e related news than original content.

Can't all be manufactured

Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on February 02, 2025, 11:35:39 AM

Quote from: Omega on February 01, 2025, 08:44:39 PMThese could be harvester bot swarms.

This used to be a thing on Yahoo Groups and a channelk could end up infested with literally thousands of the things. They just sat there harvesting member e-mail addresses.

Seems a new generation of these things are on YouTube, except now they comment too. Theres been intermittant discussion of it. Also see them infesting a few manga translation sites.

On top of this Youtube has started actively cutting support of D&D channels and possibly RPG channels in general. Theres been some comment on that as well. Not sure what they mean. But seems to be effecting a few regulars.

Social media is basically dying. FB is a graveyard of inactive group and users, and it is pretty much all Boomers and some Gen X on there. Instagram is losing popularity, and YT seems to be suffering from a lot of the issues discussed here. Tik Tok looks like it is getting banned for good

I am probably going to outright delete my FB account in the coming days --my group (6300) members is very quiet these days, as I suspect people have moved to other platforms, or simply don't use social media anymore.

I don't really care about social media. I have never had an account so I don't mind them going away. Back when FB first launched I thought about signing up then gave it a little thought. IF FB is a business then they must have a product and customers. They were not charging anyone to create an account so the users obviously were not the customers. Well that meant that the users and their data were the product. So who were the customers? I ended up never signing up for any social media and have not regretted that decision.

Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on January 31, 2025, 09:39:06 AM1. Guys like "Bonus Action" have over 500k views and hundreds of subs on their very first YT upload. Even with people going back to check out his earlier videos, this does NOT happen (YT algo isn't going to recommend a new channel to 10 million people on first upload--ever), unless you are a musician accidentally going viral. His first video was basically an expose on other YT personalities like Matt Mercer, Brian Murphy, etc.

It's quite common for some creators to remove or archive all their old videos up until their first big hit video, especially if they pivoted from making quite a different kind of content - or the old videos are just too amateurish to keep up. It may be that he wants the option of remaking videos on subjects he covered previously but didn't do that well technically the first time round.

Quote2. Another channel "Castle Caster" got very few views on his first couple of uploads. Then he did a video on Brian Murphy and Matt Mercer, along with links to those channels in the video and description. His views exploded from 250 to 14,000.

That doesn't seem like an unreasonable jump in views to me, especially if it's on a subject that people will click through to.

QuoteNow some of these guys are complaining that they aren't getting the views, subs, and revenue they were getting before. Guy made a video declaring he was going to quit. "Bonus Action" just posted a video saying he was also quitting

no one with 50k to 3 million subs "quits" YT. Something else is going on. Either WOTC is no longer supporting these guys through back channels, or YT is coming down on them with threats or a ban hammer.

Some creators with a lot of subs and views do end up quitting - especially if their success comes very quickly. A channel can appear to be doing very well but actually not be producing that much revenue for the creator versus the amount of work they're actually putting in, it's only until they actually get to that level of success that they realize the Youtuber career probably isn't for them.

I'm not denying WOTC may well be supporting content creators in various ways but I think there are other explanations for the things you mentioned. I certainly don't see why YouTube itself would have any reason to punish or ban that kind of practice, it's extremely common across all kinds of industries and if anything it just keeps more people engaged with their platform.

My bigger annoyance is with the major channels who entered the hobby with 5e. They're often very critical of WotC but they can't get out of the 5e frame of mind, so all their output is still related to 5e, house rules for 5e, games to exit 5e with, comedy sketches where people are playing 5e, etc. Any time they come up with what they present as a new exciting idea, it's really reinventing the wheel from something another game did, including other editions of D&D.