Blame Brad. His harassment has finally gotten to me, so I'm doing this mini-review of ACKSII...
So, you want to know if ACKII is worth the coin?
Yes, but those are some serious tomes dude, how complex is this shit?
ACKSII is simplified and streamlined compared to 5e PC's in terms of complexity. You have class abilities, and proficiencies a.k.a. 'Feats', but you never get more than 6-7 or so of them over 14 levels, so it is more manageable. If you can do B/X, ACKSII does not burden the player much more. If anything, they'd probably like the additional options to individualize their class. i.e. You can have 3 fighters in a group, and have them start and be different to each other over their level progression.
The game is not fundamentally more complex than base B/X. What makes it look intimidating, is that it is Very Complete:
Naval battles; rules for that. Mass combat; rules for that. Sieges; rules for that. Ocean voyages and exploration; rules for that. Downtime activities; rules for that. INVADING, CONQUERING, OCCUPYING, AND PILLAGING DOMAINS; rules for that. Many games talked the talk, but when it comes to Domain play; ACKSII walks the walk.
And the Judge's journal will tell you how to run all of that. Custom Classes; rules for that. Custom monsters; rules for that. And they are the exact same rules used to build the classes and monsters in the game. Want to have realistic population demographics and economics in your game world based on circa 300ad historical Roman data? Rules for that. He also gives you the underlying math. One of the books in the recommended non-fiction section is: 'The Grain Market in the Roman Empire'... The fuck.
The Monster book: You can kill them and take their stuff. In this case their stuff also includes their hides and internal organs that are valuable trade goods, and can be used for spell components. And if one of your PC's decides he wants to capture, tame, and train one of the beast or monsters; rules for that. FYI; for game classification reasons Orcs are listed alphabetically under 'B' for Beastman, Orc. Not under 'O' for just Orc.
Attend, the only good Orc is a dead Orc. Verily, I have spoken.
It is the modular rules set that D&D Next promised, but 5e scuttled 'because reasons'. Macris took one look at the Rules Cyclopedia and said: "Your game is weak. Hold my beer..." He then fixed the whole linear fighter, quadratic wizard problem as a side-quest for the LOLZ.
I have designed a homebrew system that I have used to run a multi-year Star Wars campaign with. After reading ACKSII I have come to the following conclusion:
I am stupid.
All that being said, at its core, if all you want to do is play Keep on the Borderlands without all that additional rules crap; You can do that to. In fact, your players will like it better because the PC classes are more mechanically engaging than standard B/X.
Yes, ACKSII are some hefty tomes, but they are also very much choose your own adventure books in terms of how much of the rules you want to engage with at any given time at your table.
So should you get it?
Well, if you are perfectly happy with your old-school game of choice with it's whacked-ass busted rules, then probably not.
However, if 'ACKSII has rules for that' is indeed your bag baby, then yes, hell yes, throw a coin to your Macris o' valley of plenty.
Thanks for the review. Do you have experience of ACKSI, and if so, can you comment on whether it's worth upgrading to ACKSII?
Yes, thanks for the review.
Quote from: Krazz on January 28, 2025, 03:34:42 PMThanks for the review. Do you have experience of ACKSI, and if so, can you comment on whether it's worth upgrading to ACKSII?
I just have the main ACKS1e corebook, so my view comes from that.
The two main reasons why you would want to upgrade:
1: ACKSII is consolidating several separate supplements under one roof with the benefit of the years of playtesting as they are merged together. (This was the big reason for me, as I discovered ACKS just a few months before ACKSII was announced.)
2: The subtle, but
very impactful rules tweaks made to ACKSII. For example; the cleave ability given to various classes in ACKSII, that are not in ACKS1e. This is an important part of fixing the linear fighter, quadratic wizard problem. Part of this is also the subtle re-working of the spell list to enable this. Also the whole thing of actually balancing magic with mass combat...
Macris lays this out better than I can here:
Solving the Quandary of the Quadratic Wizard and the Linear Fighter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZaq9gh5L8E
Design Challenges of Mass Combat in Fantasy RPGs:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEoz3-HCKxs
Some of the stuff ACKSII does is not obvious at first glance. But that's OK. Macris has already figured it out so that you don't have to...
So it really depends on how pot-invested you feel you are in ACKS1e. If you don't engage in the areas of the game that ACKSII is a step ahead in, it might not matter that much to you.
But if wish a few things about ACKS were still just like ACKS, but objectively better; Then ACKSII is the new hotness.
I have like all the ACKSI stuff. Have only played it once at a convention, and enjoyed it
not all that motivated to go out and buy all new books and relegate the old ones to a lonely shelf.
Quote from: Jaeger on January 28, 2025, 03:05:11 PMBlame Brad. His harassment has finally gotten to me, so I'm doing this mini-review of ACKSII...
It was literally only like two PMs, sir.
Thanks for the info, though. Gonna go ahead and buy it.
Quote from: Brad on January 28, 2025, 08:15:33 PM...
It was literally only like two PMs, sir.
'Twas pernicious harassment! A veritable brigading campaign I say!
Aren't we supposed to believe all accusers!?
Quote from: MerrillWeathermay on January 28, 2025, 07:57:12 PMI have like all the ACKSI stuff. Have only played it once at a convention, and enjoyed it
not all that motivated to go out and buy all new books and relegate the old ones to a lonely shelf.
I'm not sure on the fiddly details of backwards compatibility, but you might only need to get the single revised rulebook to work with everything else you have for the updated/re-balanced classes and spell lists.
Hopefully Macris may elect to descend down from on high, and inform the unwashed as to the practicality of such a thing...
Quote from: Jaeger on January 28, 2025, 05:34:38 PMSolving the Quandary of the Quadratic Wizard and the Linear Fighter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZaq9gh5L8E
Incredibly valuable video. Recommended.
It may be sacrilege, but I want the "A" part and not the "CK" parts. I'm sure it's all amazing, but I just don't have time for anything that extensive. No desire for mass combat, naval battles, economics, etc.
Hey Macris, any chance of a 30 page "ACKS Lite?"
Quote from: Aglondir on January 28, 2025, 11:01:18 PMQuote from: Jaeger on January 28, 2025, 05:34:38 PMSolving the Quandary of the Quadratic Wizard and the Linear Fighter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZaq9gh5L8E
Incredibly valuable video. Recommended.
It may be sacrilege, but I want the "A" part and not the "CK" parts. I'm sure it's all amazing, but I just don't have time for anything that extensive. No desire for mass combat, naval battles, economics, etc.
Hey Macris, any chance of a 30 page "ACKS Lite?"
It can't hurt to ask.
My interest in ACKS developed late in the lifetime of 1e. It seemed too large an investment in both time and funds to get a real handle on. Internally I said to myself I would have a look if there was ever a second edition. Then lo and behold Kickstarter. So I pledged for the book set.
Now that I've had some time with the pre-release material I see that it does exactly what I want it too. And to my eyes that is B/X had it not been revised to align with Mentzer's vision. More importantly it is the most comprehensive OSR product on the market.
When playing OSR games I tinker with rules a lot and I like to jump around from base system to base system bringing along the tweaks that I've made along the way. ACKSII strikes me as a great reference as a consistent base system that I can apply those tweaks to and not have to recontextualize them against the current system I am using.
I will run a RAW ACKSII game when the books arrive but I think the greater value to me is having all those sub-systems at my fingertips. The domain level rules, particularly hijinks, mercantile ventures, and politics, are the missing piece of the puzzle for a campaign I have been planning for close to a decade.
My players are not particularly inclined to engage with in-depth mechanics so most of the game will remain GM-facing but that's fine with me. The mechanical foundation let's me focus on running the game and not building rules to run the game. I'm excited about this game not because it will supplant anything at my table but will enhance all of my OSR games going forward.
Quote from: Aglondir on January 28, 2025, 11:01:18 PMIt may be sacrilege, but I want the "A" part and not the "CK" parts. I'm sure it's all amazing, but I just don't have time for anything that extensive. No desire for mass combat, naval battles, economics, etc.
Hey Macris, any chance of a 30 page "ACKS Lite?"
I would definitely buy an ACKS Lite.
Quote from: Jaeger on January 28, 2025, 05:34:38 PM2: The subtle, but very impactful rules tweaks made to ACKSII. For example; the cleave ability given to various classes in ACKSII, that are not in ACKS1e.
Cleave was in ACKS 1e on page 105.
There is about twice the verbage and some clarifications, such as the continuing of the backstab/ambush bonus, in ACKS2 but it is the same ability.
In this way it is a great example of much of the change: ideas are clarified, questions that have been arisen answered, and information repeated where useful, such as the weapon limitations on number of cleaves is not only in the cleave rules but on the weapons table.
I'll certainly be looking into ACKS2
Curse you for making me have to spend more money kek.
I've had my eyes on ACKS2 for a while now, but now I'm quite inclined to get it eventually.
So is it still fundamentally OSR?
Quote from: RPGPundit on January 29, 2025, 04:29:37 PMSo is it still fundamentally OSR?
Six ability scores, Classes, HP, levels, saves... Anyone that has played D&D will know the basics of how this game works.
It's just tight and complete game design done on a level that I haven't seen before from anyone else.
I really like ACKS. I have to admit that the language around "throws" makes me twitch a little. Not enough to avoid it, but it would take some getting used to before I got rid of the twitch. :)
Quote from: Jaeger on January 28, 2025, 03:05:11 PMBlame Brad. His harassment has finally gotten to me, so I'm doing this mini-review of ACKSII...
Quote from: Krazz on January 28, 2025, 03:34:42 PMThanks for the review.
Quote from: I on January 28, 2025, 04:15:53 PMYes, thanks for the review.
I don't think
Blame is the word you are looking for.
Is it available in hardback?
Quote from: Ruprecht on January 29, 2025, 09:06:39 PMI don't think Blame is the word you are looking for.
I'm just living my Truth.
I refuse to be victim shamed!
Quote from: Mistwell on January 29, 2025, 11:11:56 PMIs it available in hardback?
I will hazard an assumption...
Not yet, but they are still shipping to KS backers.
I would assume that when that is done a POD hardback version will shortly be made available on drive thru.
But don't quote me on that until the word comes down from on high.
Quote from: Jaeger on January 28, 2025, 03:05:11 PMbecause the PC classes are more mechanically engaging than standard B/X.
Great review. But this part stuck out. It smacks of 5e and "modern" gamer complaints which drowns out the more common complaint that modern classes are needlessly complex. More widgets for widgets sake.
Quote from: Omega on January 30, 2025, 02:15:36 AMQuote from: Jaeger on January 28, 2025, 03:05:11 PMbecause the PC classes are more mechanically engaging than standard B/X.
Great review. But this part stuck out. It smacks of 5e and "modern" gamer complaints which drowns out the more common complaint that modern classes are needlessly complex. More widgets for widgets sake.
In my experience with ACKS 1e, the classes were perhaps a little more complex than B/X but quite a bit simpler than 5e. And the four core classes were the simplest - maybe comparable to AD&D? Anything outside the core can be a bit more complex, especially since with race-as-class you're folding elfness or dwarfness into the "class" bucket of complexity.
Quote from: Mistwell on January 29, 2025, 11:11:56 PMIs it available in hardback?
Remaining books will go on sale after backers get their copies in the next few months.
Which is one of the most anticipated packages I'll receive this year.
Does it still use OD&D style Saves? That's the one thing I came to really hate running Classic D&D in the 2010s, having to look up the saving throw table for monsters every time a PC cast a spell.
It uses a modified system, with Paralysis, Blast, Death, Implement, and Spell saves. While I'm not a huge fan of classic style saves either, I think it has a pretty good description of when each is used makes it not too bad for me. Others mileage may vary.
I like some of the ideas, but domain play for me has always been the weakest point of D&D, so I've never been able to get into ACKS. My view has always been that you shouldn't hit domain play until like say level 14, and then it makes a good stopping point for a campaign. At that point it's basically a completely different game.
Quote from: Nobleshield on February 25, 2025, 09:05:10 AMI like some of the ideas, but domain play for me has always been the weakest point of D&D, so I've never been able to get into ACKS. My view has always been that you shouldn't hit domain play until like say level 14, and then it makes a good stopping point for a campaign. At that point it's basically a completely different game.
Most ACKS classes max out at 14th level, so the domain play occurs before then.
The Paladin, for example, can inspire his hirelings at 5th, attract followers by having a fortress at 9th, and maxes at 14th.
Quote from: Omega on January 30, 2025, 02:15:36 AMQuote from: Jaeger on January 28, 2025, 03:05:11 PMbecause the PC classes are more mechanically engaging than standard B/X.
Great review. But this part stuck out. It smacks of 5e and "modern" gamer complaints which drowns out the more common complaint that modern classes are needlessly complex. More widgets for widgets sake.
They are nothing like the complexity of 5e, IMO.
Sticking with the Paladin above for illustration, they get a total of 5 class abilities;
Bonus AC/Save vs. Evil
Id army standards/equipment/leaders/etc
Immune to Disease
Sense Evil (1/turn)
Lay Hands (1/day)
Really simple stuff. Next ability is 5th level (keeping in mind OSR advancement speed vs. 3.0 & latter pacing), last one at 9th (which is one-time-ever thing).
That is it, every class ability they can have. Not even a spell list.
Quote from: Jaeger on January 28, 2025, 03:05:11 PMThe game is not fundamentally more complex than base B/X. What makes it look intimidating, is that it is Very Complete:
There's more to a game than just it's core resolution mechanic. Storyteller works if you just look at the core mechanic. It's when you bring in the rest of the system that it falls apart. These other systems are part of the game too.
Quote from: Nobleshield on February 25, 2025, 09:05:10 AMI like some of the ideas, but domain play for me has always been the weakest point of D&D, so I've never been able to get into ACKS. My view has always been that you shouldn't hit domain play until like say level 14, and then it makes a good stopping point for a campaign. At that point it's basically a completely different game.
For what it's worth, "it's basically a completely different game" was intended as a feature not a bug. ACKS is partly inspired by games like Shogun: Total War and Masters of Orion, which have two different "games" in one (tactical and strategy), and by SPORE, which advanced through several different types of game as you advanced in level. I never liked the fact that at 1st level a character went into dungeons and fought monsters and at 14th level a character was still doing the same things. I wanted gameplay to change as you leveled up.
ACKS isn't for everyone so I don't take this to mean "you are wrong and I am right." I just figured it's worth saying that allowing you to carry your character into a "totally different game" was exactly what I wanted to achieve, and it's what separates ACKS' approach to domains from other games, where the domain is never more than a generator for gp/story hooks.
Quote from: rkhigdon on February 25, 2025, 07:34:50 AMIt uses a modified system, with Paralysis, Blast, Death, Implement, and Spell saves. While I'm not a huge fan of classic style saves either, I think it has a pretty good description of when each is used makes it not too bad for me. Others mileage may vary.
Ok thanks. That doesn't sound like much of a change so I will stick with Shadowdark and add bits from ACKS 1e to supplement.
I missed the kickstarter, but I'm hoping he'll have some extra prints available on the website after the backers get theirs. Cause, dang, I love the looks of this game.
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on March 01, 2025, 10:53:33 AMI missed the kickstarter, but I'm hoping he'll have some extra prints available on the website after the backers get theirs. Cause, dang, I love the looks of this game.
You can get the PDF from DriveThru. I'd expect a POD option at some point.