Quote from: KingCheops;1058248These people are sick.

Pretty much imo. The only way for them to function in a group is to make it a echo chamber. Half of the bullshit they spout would never be accepted yet alone tolerated at my table or most sane normal moderate gamers.

One of them " you have to change the evil races in D&D to anything but evil because they represent the native americans of a fantasy setting and should not be needlessly killed off "

My response and most others " no I'm not doing that"

"Why not.  You have to because reasons and feels"

" i said no either accept it or move on"

I began reading the shame of D&D thread. Its not that hard to bypass a permaban espcially on a separate home computer. A more deluded insane bunch I have never seen. The sheer amount of worry and pearl clutching was and is pathethic.

Quote from: sureshot;1058280I began reading the shame of D&D thread. Its not that hard to bypass a permaban espcially on a separate home computer. A more deluded insane bunch I have never seen. The sheer amount of worry and pearl clutching was and is pathethic.

I tried to guess what the topics would be before reading the thread. Predicted most of them:

Orcs, check.
Drow, check.
Strength caps for female PCs, check.
Vistani from Ravenloft, check.
Girdle of masc/fem, check.
Tolkien, check.
Aleena the Cleric: not to be found! Interesting.

But there were some new ones:

Runner up: D&D is really about white people (the PCs) killing native americans (the monsters).
Winner: Pathfinder's orgres are "hicksploitation." (I was surpised that SJWs consider hillbillies a protected class. Their word, not mine. I prefer Applachian-American.)

Quote from: Aglondir;1058285Orcs, check.
Drow, check.
Strength caps for female PCs, check.
Vistani from Ravenloft, check.
Girdle of masc/fem, check.
Tolkien, check.
Aleena the Cleric: not to be found! Interesting.

For some of these things there's at least a discussion to be had (keeping in mind that we're talking about games and the stakes are so very very low).  But in todays climate it's a waste of time.

Shame.

Quote from: KingCheops;1058248These people are sick.

Mentally ill, they are.

Quote from: ponta1010;1058258How long before all OSR players are banned.

Honest Query:  Aren't they already??

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058291Honest Query:  Aren't they already??

I've got to say your question made me pause for some time...
I'd argue that in practice you're right, but TPB would say 'no'.

After all LibraryLass (who identified the Nazi problem which infests the OSR) is a non-banned member.

(This raises an interesting point if my logic is correct - As LibraryLass also identified as a fan of OSR, does this mean that they are a fan of Nazis, given that they are a fan of the OSR and the OSR has a Nazi problem? Therefore they should be or soon will be banned!)

At this stage TPB's D&D's specific forum is meant to cater for the following...
All versions of D&D, including OD&D, Basic D&D, AD&D, 3rd, 4th, and 5th Editions.
Plus, D&D-based fantasy games, including 13th Age, C&C, OSRIC, and Pathfinder.

Presumably this will amended at some stage to remove any reference to Nazi promoting RPGs.

Quote from: TJS;1058286For some of these things there's at least a discussion to be had (keeping in mind that we're talking about games and the stakes are so very very low).  But in todays climate it's a waste of time.

Shame.

No. There isn't. It's bullshit full stop.

Quote from: Lurtch;1058298No. There isn't. It's bullshit full stop.

Well that's me convinced.

Quote from: Aglondir;1058285I tried to guess what the topics would be before reading the thread. Predicted most of them:

Orcs, check.
Drow, check.
Strength caps for female PCs, check.
Vistani from Ravenloft, check.
Girdle of masc/fem, check.
Tolkien, check.
Aleena the Cleric: not to be found! Interesting.

But there were some new ones:

Runner up: D&D is really about white people (the PCs) killing native americans (the monsters).
Winner: Pathfinder's orgres are "hicksploitation." (I was surpised that SJWs consider hillbillies a protected class. Their word, not mine. I prefer Applachian-American.)

I did not make it far enough to read about the girdle. Talk about not understanding context. It's a cursed item it's not supposed to be a pleasant experience. The sad part is some feel sorry for the giants in Aganst the Giants module. (Pearl Clutching time ) Giants are evil it's not fair for those sapient being to be killed off by the PCs. Sure they are rampaging monsters yet even they deserve a chance at life. To be fair Pathfinder Ogres do kind of deserve to be pointed out in a bad way imo. Mixing the hillbilliess and the mutants from the hills hav eyes into a creature. So Paizo going woke with them in their Besitiary is hypocritical to the extreme. Everyone seems to be a protect class to SJWs. They could actual change the world in a postive way if they were not so offended about every and any damn thing.

Quote from: Lurtch;1058298No. There isn't. It's bullshit full stop.

I think there's a discussion to be had on how to make the various humanoid monsters more distinct than how many HD they have. "I"m a monster! GRRRR!" ceased being a meaningful opponent motivation in any game I've ever played in past the age of about 14.

Motivation can help with how they react to the PCs (and why the PCs might care about them... after all, if goblins were just tiny people who farmed mushrooms in caves using wooden tools and kept to themselves they'd present neither the threat nor have the treasure to motivate many PCs to do more than note their existence in the DM's flavor text). Are the Orcs raiding because, like a lot of Native American tribes, that's just what you do to your neighbors (before Europeans showed up there was near perpetual low-level conflict between most neighboring tribes) which also implies that the Orcs are also raiding and counter-raiding each other? That provides not just the reason they're attacking the local human village, but the opportunity to gain intel about other nearby Orc tribes and potential allies if you go to one of the weaker tribes in the area offering to help them wipe out the other Orc tribes who are their longtime enemies.

Things like tactics and resource allocation (ex. kobolds feel like they should be more communal with their resources, while the strongest gets the best stuff among the orcs with his favorites getting the next best down the chain of bullying, hobgoblins probably assign based on best use for their upcoming campaigns, etc.) also help make them more distinct than "these guys have hyena faces, these guys have pig faces, these guys have bat-like faces, etc.

Quote from: TJS;1058299Well that's me convinced.

Good! I'd hate for you to try to have a 'conversation' about how racist Tolkien is and look stupid. Or about how we have people creating OSR games that are members of the Nazi party that doesn't exist anymore.

Quote from: Chris24601;1058318I think there's a discussion to be had on how to make the various humanoid monsters more distinct than how many HD they have. "I"m a monster! GRRRR!" ceased being a meaningful opponent motivation in any game I've ever played in past the age of about 14.

Motivation can help with how they react to the PCs (and why the PCs might care about them... after all, if goblins were just tiny people who farmed mushrooms in caves using wooden tools and kept to themselves they'd present neither the threat nor have the treasure to motivate many PCs to do more than note their existence in the DM's flavor text). Are the Orcs raiding because, like a lot of Native American tribes, that's just what you do to your neighbors (before Europeans showed up there was near perpetual low-level conflict between most neighboring tribes) which also implies that the Orcs are also raiding and counter-raiding each other? That provides not just the reason they're attacking the local human village, but the opportunity to gain intel about other nearby Orc tribes and potential allies if you go to one of the weaker tribes in the area offering to help them wipe out the other Orc tribes who are their longtime enemies.

Things like tactics and resource allocation (ex. kobolds feel like they should be more communal with their resources, while the strongest gets the best stuff among the orcs with his favorites getting the next best down the chain of bullying, hobgoblins probably assign based on best use for their upcoming campaigns, etc.) also help make them more distinct than "these guys have hyena faces, these guys have pig faces, these guys have bat-like faces, etc.

Wanting better monsters doesn't mean that Orcs are analogous to native Americans and racist. That's bullshit. Tolkien isn't a racist nor are his books. Having men stronger than women isn't sexist. It's science. I'm glad it changed for a game but the original intention isn't sexist.

I don't engage with people that argue in bad faith and when the game is: agree with me or your a Nazi, that's bad faith.

Meanwhile... My lovely new ACKS book arrived on Friday. Looking forward to cracking it open tonight with a cold beer. Have also sprung for the Heroic Fantasy pdf so should now have everything I need when I get a chance to run it.

Quote from: Lurtch;1058319Good! I'd hate for you to try to have a 'conversation' about how racist Tolkien is and look stupid. Or about how we have people creating OSR games that are members of the Nazi party that doesn't exist anymore.

You know how I said that in today's climate it would be a waste of time?

A big part of that is because you can't make any points that aren't stupid gross oversimplifications. without people ignoring any points you might make and having an argument with the imaginary opponent in their head.

Of course now I see that I don't even have to go so far as to make any real points at all before the frothing insanity starts.

Did I say that I think Tolkien was racist?  No
Did I say that I think any OSR creators are nazis? No.

Your stupid fucking assumptions.  Well at least I guess I can say my point is well and truly proven.

Quote from: TJS;1058322You know how I said that in today's climate it would be a waste of time?

A big part of that is because you can't make any points that aren't stupid gross oversimplifications. without people ignoring any points you might make and having an argument with the imaginary opponent in their head.

Of course now I see that I don't even have to go so far as to make any real points at all before the frothing insanity starts.

Did I say that I think Tolkien was racist?  No
Did I say that I think any OSR creators are nazis? No.

Your stupid fucking assumptions.  Well at least I guess I can say my point is well and truly proven.

We are talking about a very specific thread on a very specific forum, where people believe the Lord of the Rings is racist. They D&D is racist and "problematic". If you want to make an argument around one of the points brought up in the thread, go ahead. But, no, don't give me any bullshit.

QuoteOrcs, check.
Drow, check.
Strength caps for female PCs, check.
Vistani from Ravenloft, check.
Girdle of masc/fem, check.
Tolkien, check.
Aleena the Cleric: not to be found! Interesting.

Which of these points can we have a discussion on in the context of the big purple. Go head, which one?

You're not going to answer because it will expose just how fucking stupid you are or how disingenuous you are.

The sad part is none of those expressing outrage now ever gave a flying fuck about how racist etc D&D was until the last year or two most likely. Suddenly everything about their hobby was terrible, racist, misogynistic etc.. I wonder how some of them survive in the real world.

If they truly were are smart as they think they are they would stop banning so many people and topics. Want to drum up interest in something ban it because people like the forbidden. I wonder how one can even have a campaign where every race is good or at least neutral. Is the group going to be playing a fantasy version of the littlest hobo.