Quote from: estar;1057928*My rule is if you roll a natural 20, roll another to hit roll. If you miss you roll damage and do double damage. If you hit you do max damage. If you roll a natural 20 again, you get to make another to hit roll and increase your damage accordingly. The most I seen was four nat 20s in a roll followed by a miss. So the player rolls his damage and added four times his max damage. I think he did around 45 points of damage in that blow.

While not as straightfoward as other crit system, the players really like the exploding dice part. The chance of rolling successive nat 20s.

I *like* this.

It's kinda roll-heavy, but screw it. Have you considered just allowing exploding damage dice in general? Let Natural 20's be double-damage, and just let all damage dice explode on max numbers?

That would pretty much be SW<>d20. I'd love that in D&D.

Quote from: tenbones;1057938I *like* this.

It's kinda roll-heavy, but screw it. Have you considered just allowing exploding damage dice in general? Let Natural 20's be double-damage, and just let all damage dice explode on max numbers?

That would pretty much be SW<>d20. I'd love that in D&D.

Yes but it is overkill in OD&D, character don't have a lot of hit points. Having damage dice explode would dramatically increase the one shot kills.

Quote from: Derabar;1057770That's a cherry picked example though. Certainly not the case with D&D.

My point was that there are modifications you can make that allow that. And there's already OSR games that can be used to do that.

Quote from: JeremyR;1057881If that were the case, then no one would ever reach 12th level.  They'd have been killed by a peasant long ago.

Depends on how you do criticals. And in my Albion campaign I had characters who reached 12th level. Though the game setting is such that 12th level is super-high.

Quote from: estar;1057994Yes but it is overkill in OD&D, character don't have a lot of hit points. Having damage dice explode would dramatically increase the one shot kills.

Very true.  In Savage Worlds and L5R it works because you simply have thresholds to beat and it's done in degrees.  ALthough you do get silly moments like my Savage Rifts Glitterboy coring Godzilla's balls (if he had any) like an apple with a single, admittedly lucky damage roll with the cannon.

It depends on the type of D&D game you want to run, however.



For those who care...

After removing his toughness modifier, the MACH 5 superheated shotgun slugs still did almost 10x the amount of 'hits' (4 for every creature) in that blast.  Huzzah for exploding D12s.  We also determined that there's a new cave in a mountain about 2 miles out that smells like Giant Lizard Tail.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1058180Very true.  In Savage Worlds and L5R it works because you simply have thresholds to beat and it's done in degrees.  ALthough you do get silly moments like my Savage Rifts Glitterboy coring Godzilla's balls (if he had any) like an apple with a single, admittedly lucky damage roll with the cannon.

It depends on the type of D&D game you want to run, however.



For those who care...

After removing his toughness modifier, the MACH 5 superheated shotgun slugs still did almost 10x the amount of 'hits' (4 for every creature) in that blast.  Huzzah for exploding D12s.  We also determined that there's a new cave in a mountain about 2 miles out that smells like Giant Lizard Tail.

Ah yes Savage Rifts, the AD&D of Savage Worlds.

Fun times.

I always thought the relatively predictable death rate in D&D was sort of the point, or at least intentional. Kind of sucks when Lancelot gets taken out by a random rock throwing peasant.

SW is not at all unique in regards to the idea everyone is vulnerable, RQ / BRP, GURPS, HERO, Warhammer all have the same potential. As does Rolemaster which is pretty close to what you would get by putting gnarly crit charts into D&D. The discussion about "how many hit points" had many examples of higher risk D&D / OSR modifications.

Quote from: estar;1057994Yes but it is overkill in OD&D, character don't have a lot of hit points. Having damage dice explode would dramatically increase the one shot kills.

Good point. Recovery time in OD&D is not quite as fast as SW. But I feel you could thread that needle with a few tweaks... although it's dangerously close to going overboard.

Quote from: Toadmaster;1058211I always thought the relatively predictable death rate in D&D was sort of the point, or at least intentional. Kind of sucks when Lancelot gets taken out by a random rock throwing peasant.

SW is not at all unique in regards to the idea everyone is vulnerable, RQ / BRP, GURPS, HERO, Warhammer all have the same potential. As does Rolemaster which is pretty close to what you would get by putting gnarly crit charts into D&D. The discussion about "how many hit points" had many examples of higher risk D&D / OSR modifications.

Well the real rub for me is how much mechanical wankery is needed to get you to that point?

I agree that all these things can occur, but the context is where the rubber hits the road. What does a rock-throwing peasant have to do to kill Lancelot in my D&D games?

First and foremost - he has to get past my GM prerogative "Am I seriously going to start a combat over this superfluous attempt at impotent rage from a peasant at Lancelot?" Probably not.

Most silliness like this stops cold right here.

If I'm going to actually go through the rolls for it... it better be for a good reason. So you know, in D&D it's pointless.

Not that people will be surprised anymore, but TPB is back at it.  Someone just got thread banned for saying that the OSR movement doesn't have a nazi problem after someone else claims it does and uses ACKS as the example.  To them it's just splitting hairs about how much of a nazi you are.

These people are sick.

Quote from: tenbones;1058227What does a rock-throwing peasant have to do to kill Lancelot in my D&D games?

Throw a big rock?

Quote from: rgalex;1058244Not that people will be surprised anymore, but TPB is back at it.  Someone just got thread banned for saying that the OSR movement doesn't have a nazi problem after someone else claims it does and uses ACKS as the example.  To them it's just splitting hairs about how much of a nazi you are.

Finally chased down the thread the ban came from (https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?834423-The-Old-Shames-of-D-amp-D/page25).
To me the comment Baron Opal was objecting to was a group attack (essentially "All OSR players are Nazis"). Sadly given the political climate over there this comment is de rigueur and acceptable.

How long before all OSR players are banned.

Quote from: tenbones;1058227Well the real rub for me is how much mechanical wankery is needed to get you to that point?

I agree that all these things can occur, but the context is where the rubber hits the road. What does a rock-throwing peasant have to do to kill Lancelot in my D&D games?

First and foremost - he has to get past my GM prerogative "Am I seriously going to start a combat over this superfluous attempt at impotent rage from a peasant at Lancelot?" Probably not.

Most silliness like this stops cold right here.

If I'm going to actually go through the rolls for it... it better be for a good reason. So you know, in D&D it's pointless.

It would be fairly pointless otherwise as well. An untrained peasant is not likely to do much harm, assuming they can even hit the target. Idiots tossing out this argument of "wah wah D&D isnt realistic!" conveniently keep glossing over the little fact that HP are not meat. They represent the accumulation of skill/knowledge and luck to avoid being hit or at least seriously hit. Which is a real world thing. I know I know! "Reality is unrealistic!"

All that said why should Lance fear the lowly peasant? A couple of reasons.
A: Being killed outside of combat: AD&D has both the surprise system which can allow an attacker potentially a couple of free attacks and especially the coup-de-grace which is an insta-kill no matter what your HP are. And of course insta-killing someone who is asleep. All the peasant has to do is sneak up on AD&D Lance with his oodles of HP (141) and stick a knife in him. Dead.
B: Numbers: One peasant vs Lance? Not likely to do anything. But several peasants? That may be a very different story. They can do it the hard way and whittle him down in a mob beating. Or they can overbear him and coup-de-grace him. This has happened for real.
C: Sic the militia on him!: That is what they are there for after all. Even a little training can make a big difference. Add in better equipment and chances get increasingly better of them being able to either whittle down or overbear him.

Albedo and Boot Hill still has them beat for sheer lethality of combat.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1058251Throw a big rock?

Its what we invented the trebuchet for. :eek: