Quote from: stu2000"You'll read about John Wesley Harding--so mean he once shot a man just for snoring."

". . .snoring too loud."  I'm glad I'm not the only one who has that commercial burned into my brain.  

Pete

I have that set of books, or at least a few dozen of them. Or rather, my parents have them, as they are at their house. It seemed like an endless stream of them were made. I first began getting them in the 70s when the commercials first aired. As I recall, they were something like $7.95 each. They were actually really well-done books, with lots of pictures, diagrams, and research. The Cowboys volume even had a genuine chuck-wagon cook's recipe for "Sonofabitch Stew."

Well, thanks to this thread I've got a copy reserved that I hope to pick up tomorrow.

Incidentally, I'd recommend Coyote Trail for sandbox open plan western, it's just way easy for that stuff, I intend to use A&E for more Deadwood style gaming.

Quote from: BalbinusIncidentally, I'd recommend Coyote Trail for sandbox open plan western, it's just way easy for that stuff, I intend to use A&E for more Deadwood style gaming.

Thanks for the advice.  Both games look excellent, but I'm not sure I want to buy 2 cowboy games right now.

Quote from: jrientsThanks for the advice.  Both games look excellent, but I'm not sure I want to buy 2 cowboy games right now.

How are you on complexity?  I bought A&E today and it's looking pretty complex, if that is something you like (robustness as it were) then it's for you, if that sounds a bit of a drag Coyote Trail is well worth picking up.

Coyote Trail also has some excellent supplements by the way.

Oh, Leisure Games in London has at least one left in stock, they do mail order to the states.  //www.leisuregames.com

If you order from them, always phone first to ensure they have it as they don't always update the website and you could otherwise find you'd bought it and were waiting for them to restock, and by the time that happened your FLGS would likely have it again anyway.

WalkerP, thanks for bringing this to my attention, before this thread I was ignoring the game.

It's damn good stuff though, any game which recommends hiring muscle in case of trouble once you have some money is already in a very different mindset to 99% of rpgs, the basic concept of arriving with $5 in your pocket and trying to find work and accommodation is miles away from most games.

Hell, it feels frankly more mature, and not in a pseudo-pirates way,
more in a Traveller way.

I have concerns as to whether the complexity will make it practical for me to run it, but so far I'm very impressed.

You're very welcome.  I'm sure you would have heard about it eventually, but I'm glad you're interested.  The more the merrier.  

I very much agree with your assesment of the game, Balbinus.

I have mixed feelings about the complexity of the rules.  On the one hand it's partly the empirical crunchiness that appealled to me in the first place.  It's tickled my old school funnybone or something.  On the other hand, I am loving the quick prep time of games like Savage Worlds and Fate and I've grown used to them.  From what I am hearing over on the Kenzerco boards is that it is a bit tricky, but once you run it once, it becomes a lot easier and runs quite efficiently in play.  Now a lot of these guys are Hackmasterites, so they may be coming from a perspective that is relatively comfortable with crunch.  I haven't heard much about GM prep.  

I am planning on starting a campaign in early '08.  I'll know more then.

Why are the skills reverse percentile?  It seems incredibly unintuitive, is there any reason not to houserule it to a standard roll under percentile system?

Quote from: BalbinusWhy are the skills reverse percentile?  It seems incredibly unintuitive, is there any reason not to houserule it to a standard roll under percentile system?

Here's the official answer from the Rules Q&A on the Kenzerco site:

QuoteSKILLS

Q: The design of the skill system has me perplexed. Most systems that use a percentile based resolution are of the roll under skill mastery level = Success philosophy. In Aces & Eights the system is exactly the opposite. Success = roll over skill mastery level. This leads to a situation where a rank amateur in diplomacy will have his skill mastery level listed as 90%, this seems really counter intuitive.
A: Although it might appear counter-intuitive on your sheet, it runs faster and easier during play because it moves the math to character generation from game play. You roll and ADD bonuses, instead of rolling and DEDUCTING bonuses.

I haven't used it in play yet, but I did roll up a character.  I had the same reaction at first.  It's weird for me to have any absolute limit on a skill, whether it's high or low, so I've never gotten my head around %-based skills in general.  But once I started buying skills (a bit of a tricky process in and of itself, actually), the low % being more skilled didn't seem so counter-intuitive to me.  You want to roll high, so positive bonuses are good things.  That works for my simple mind.  I don't know about how it works in play yet.

Hey all,
Someone was kind enough to point out this thread.

Thought i'd point out that our Aces and Eights website is packed with player aids, previews and free downloads. If you have even the slightest interest in the game I encourage you to check out http://www.kenzerco.com/aces_n_eights/

We have a very active A&8 forum where GMs and Players compare notes and share ideas. Not to mention the designers are there to answer questions.

I'd also like to point out we've been posting videos and tutorials to show varoius aspects of the game (currently combat). YOu can find those here: http://www.kenzerco.com/aces_n_eights/gameplay/shotclock.html (there are currently three videos with more to come).

 The game has a reputation for beng very 'complex' but it really isn't all that bad. As the tutorials demonstrate.

For example most of the micro games (such as prospecting, chases, trials etc) need not be dealt with until they come up in your game.

And with combat you can start with the basic rules in a matter of minutes. Then add further complexity with advanced rules as you and your players become comfortable with the system. You can basically pick and choose which rules you want to use without breaking the system.

In fact that's what I personally love about the game. It lends itself really well to house rules and tweaks.

One more thing on career paths. As Mark pointed out you are never restricted to any one profession. YOu can change hats (literally) as often as you want. Just like people tended to do in  the real west.

Wyatt Earp for example was a buffalo hunter, lawman, prospector/miner, saloon owner, faro dealer etc. he went where opportunity led him.

So the barber character mentioned earlier in this thread might be a barber by day but also running for Mayor, have a seat on town council, part owner ship in a mine etc.

I suspect many beginning campaigns will deal with robbing banks involve lots of gun play. That's fine. The book presents full fledged miniature skirmish rules if that's your cup of tea.

But  RPG itself was designed with the long term campaign in mind.

One option --- characters becoming involved in a community (or even founding a town from scratch). Delving into politics. Starting new businesses. Buying land and building on it.

There are of course others

Anyway, always good to see a lively discussion of A&8.

We put a lot of heart and soul into the game so yes we're very proud of it and the fact it's doing so well.

So hopefully you can forgive us if we act the proud parents and boast from time to time on our webiste.

Game on!

Jolly, welcome!  Keep up the great work on KoDT!  Big fan!  And you guys should be proud of Aces & Eights--it's a beautiful product!!!

Quote from: walkerpHere's the official answer from the Rules Q&A on the Kenzerco site:



I haven't used it in play yet, but I did roll up a character.  I had the same reaction at first.  It's weird for me to have any absolute limit on a skill, whether it's high or low, so I've never gotten my head around %-based skills in general.  But once I started buying skills (a bit of a tricky process in and of itself, actually), the low % being more skilled didn't seem so counter-intuitive to me.  You want to roll high, so positive bonuses are good things.  That works for my simple mind.  I don't know about how it works in play yet.

It helped me during playtesting to think of the Skill Percentages as my percentage chance to FAIL.

Once I made that mental connection it was never a problem again (I'm dyslexic so numbers are always throwing me for a loop).

Quote from: Zachary The FirstJolly, welcome!  Keep up the great work on KoDT!  Big fan!  And you guys should be proud of Aces & Eights--it's a beautiful product!!!

Thanks. Great site you have here. Not sure how I missed it all this time but I'll definitely be poking around.

Quote from: JollyRBThanks. Great site you have here. Not sure how I missed it all this time but I'll definitely be poking around.

Poke carefully.  Some things shouldn't be awakened around here.

Jolly, another question on A&8:  from everything I've seen and from looking through the book, this seems like a Full Game--plenty of sub-systems, extra content, etc., etc.

What, if anything, do you see as coming out for support for Aces & Eights?  Anything we'd recognize as statted out locales from Cattlepunk? Possible adventure paths, after a fashion?  It seems like an awfully complete game, and I just didn't know what you guys had in the wings.  And if you do plan on future products with it, do you think the design quality will hold up with what you've had so far, and will it take on a more economical cast, perhaps?  Thanks!