Walker -

I've had noble knight send stuff to Canada to a guy who paints minis for me there twice, no problems either time.

A&8 selling out so quick tells me that it's at least possible for a company other than WotC or WW to make the traditional hobby distro method work for them even today, though it's not easy. I'm glad for the Kenzer guys, it's cool when you gamble on a dream and come up aces.

On the shipping side- before I returned to academia, I ran a shipping department for a high tech company. The two hardest countries in the world to ship to from the US were Canada and Thailand. I love Canada (I grew up on the border as a kid) but Canadian customs is a bitch.

As far as the game goes, Walkerp are you going to run a campaign wherein playing a barber or a whore are viable character choices? Definitely not my kind of thing, I mean why go with the wild west at all, why not just do modern day Vegas?

Quote from: TonyLBOkay ... my questions aren't getting through here.

Why would I want to play a barber or a whore, rather than (say) a gunfighter?

To give you another perspective: being a barber or a whore gives you a motivation to be in the Wild West. Being a gunfighter is what lets you stay there and advance your agenda. Any character can become a well-skilled gunfighter - in fact, the professions don't come with default skill setups at all, if I'm reading the system right. The professions instead provide means of gaining experience points from what you do in your day job as well as what you get up to in your Wild West adventures - and in fact, what you get up to in your adventures can help you achieve things in your profession.

Essentially, each profession gives you a checklist of things to do as you progress in that profession. You have to do them more-or-less in order, and you get bigger XP bonuses the further you progress down the list (although the different achievements get progressively more difficult). Barbers, for example, give XP for:

- Setting up their business.
- Buying a lot to put the barbershop in.
- Operating the business for a month.
- Building a permanent storefront.
- Hiring an apprentice or employee.

Most of that is going to cost money - hence the adventures - and as well as providing colour and flavour for what your character is doing in downtime, it also gives the GM plenty of opportunities to tie your character's profession into the adventure in colourful ways. Say some mean hombre comes into your barbershop and starts making trouble: you're going to want him to get the hell out of there, because he's not just being an asshole - he's threatening your source of XP!

Okay, that's clear enough- but what if I was just a drifter? what if my main profession is killing folks and taking their stuff, or, perhaps, bounty hunting or law enforcement? Is there room for that in the game? I mean one of the appealing aspects of the WW is that it's wide open- staying centered in one place just doesn't appeal to my pathetic Clint Eastwood wish fufilment fantasies.

Another question: totally unrelated- I've been thinking about running a wild west/horror game; would this system do it well?

And one more- I'm pretty up to speed on the real history of the west, would it be a problem to use it as a setting as opposed to the official game universe?

Quote from: AosOn the shipping side- before I returned to academia, I ran a shipping department for a high tech company. The two hardest countries in the world to ship to from the US were Canada and Thailand. I love Canada (I grew up on the border as a kid) but Canadian customs is a bitch.

Thank you for that data point.  Us Canadians are such pushovers and we fear conflict.  Sometimes I wonder if I'm insane when I scream about Customs and get nothing but "bit of a hassle at the border, eh?". So it's nice to know that the perception is similar from the other end.

Quote from: AosAs far as the game goes, Walkerp are you going to run a campaign wherein playing a barber or a whore are viable character choices? Definitely not my kind of thing, I mean why go with the wild west at all, why not just do modern day Vegas?

They definitely will be viable character choices.  My simple thoughts at this point is to run it like a total sandbox.  Characters can do whatever they want.  Stuff will be going on in the town and around. That stuff will get into the characters' mixes and vice versa.  I'll probably set the "stuff" up at the beginning with player input, so I'll have things that I know the players are interested in.  So you can totally play a barber or a whore, but a typical game will not be just you cutting hair or turning tricks.  If you don't go out and make stuff happen, it's going to come to you.  You can also focus on being a gunman if you want.  I'll let the players drive that.  That the game lets the players choose among such a wide range of paths is one of the things that appeals to me.


I think the setting itself is enough of an appeal to the players to feel that it is significantly different than modern day Vegas.  Also, the wild west has lawlessness and early stages of development that allow for much more adventure potential than modern day Vegas (assuming it's realistic).

Quote from: AosOkay, that's clear enough- but what if I was just a drifter? what if my main profession is killing folks and taking their stuff, or, perhaps, bounty hunting or law enforcement? Is there room for that in the game? I mean one of the appealing aspects of the WW is that it's wide open- staying centered in one place just doesn't appeal to my pathetic Clint Eastwood wish fufilment fantasies.

Totally.  Some of the other profession paths are Bounty Hunter, Lawman, Outlaw, Soldier, Spy, Trailblazer (man, I just saw that, how cool is that).  I'm particularly interested in the more mundane side of the game, but the rules and chargen definitely addresses just being a badass.

As far as staying in one place, that's just me again.  I'm thinking about having it take place in a single town for the sandbox idea (and to have some unifying factor among the players: geography) but there is a big hex map with lots of open space to discover stuff.

Quote from: AosAnother question: totally unrelated- I've been thinking about running a wild west/horror game; would this system do it well?

Depends on the horror. If you wanted to do something "realistic" along the lines of Dead Man or horror based on human atrocity (like the slaughter of the natives) you could do that. But anything truly supernatural I think would not work at all.  There is nothing for magic or monsters and the mechanics are fairly unflexible in terms of power scale.

Quote from: AosAnd one more- I'm pretty up to speed on the real history of the west, would it be a problem to use it as a setting as opposed to the official game universe?

Not at all.  It's something like 32 pages and completely removable.  The only way the setting impacts on the mechanics is in rolling up the background of your character. There is a table that dictates land of origin that has the alternate political entities in it.  You could just change that to real-world places, substitute the alternate ones with their real-world equivalents (like the CSA would just be the South) or take it right out.  The game universe I believe was just designed so that real-world history wouldn't interfere with your campaigns.

Thanks-

I'm all about the Trailbalzer.

Quote from: walkerpI'm particularly interested in the more mundane side of the game .

Why is this? Seriously, I just don't get it.

Quote from: AosWhy is this? Seriously, I just don't get it.

Just taste, that's the bit that kept me reading the thread.

The West is a dangerous place, a party of a barber, tailor, rancher and bargirl could be quite interesting.  There wouldn't be many gunfights, but that would just mean the party would have to politic hard to get their way...

Quote from: AosWhy is this? Seriously, I just don't get it.

In general these days I am leaning towards playing the mundane or at least the mundane facing the extraordinary, but that's a different thread.  As far as Aces & Eights goes, I think Balbinus got it right.  To me, the fun in roleplaying comes in the details.  It's what makes me care about my characters.  The wild west is a setting where people didn't have a whole lot and everyone was struggling to succeed.  Finding a teeny bit of gold, getting a job, staying out of trouble, those could make major differences in your success or failure.  Owning a horse is a major deal.  That just appeals to me.

Combat, too.  While I love the over the top insane action set piece, really no movie can capture the intensity of a real fist fight.  Obviously, those are ugly things and you don't want to see or be involved in too many of those.  But sometimes I want a game that tries to capture that, where getting punched in the face in the middle of town and then having a pointed boot stuck into your ribs while you roll around in the dust (or you doing it to someone else) is a major part of a gaming session.  Think about that seen in Unforgiven when Gene Hackman kicks the crap out of Richard Harris. That's intense!

I feel like Aces & Eights is the best system I've seen to capture that.  I feel like these guys at Kenzer were trying to capture that, rather than designing for a certain type of gameplay or a certain mechanic. They just put together whatever they thought would achieve that kind of atmosphere and play.  On paper, so far, it seems to be working.  I have to roll the dice to find out for sure.

Quote from: WarthurTo give you another perspective: being a barber or a whore gives you a motivation to be in the Wild West. Being a gunfighter is what lets you stay there and advance your agenda.

That perspective is, for some reason, much easier for me to get excited about.  Thanks!

Quote from: walkerpIn general these days I am leaning towards playing the mundane or at least the mundane facing the extraordinary, but that's a different thread.  As far as Aces & Eights goes, I think Balbinus got it right.  To me, the fun in roleplaying comes in the details.  It's what makes me care about my characters.  The wild west is a setting where people didn't have a whole lot and everyone was struggling to succeed.  Finding a teeny bit of gold, getting a job, staying out of trouble, those could make major differences in your success or failure.  Owning a horse is a major deal.  That just appeals to me.

Combat, too.  While I love the over the top insane action set piece, really no movie can capture the intensity of a real fist fight.  Obviously, those are ugly things and you don't want to see or be involved in too many of those.  But sometimes I want a game that tries to capture that, where getting punched in the face in the middle of town and then having a pointed boot stuck into your ribs while you roll around in the dust (or you doing it to someone else) is a major part of a gaming session.  Think about that seen in Unforgiven when Gene Hackman kicks the crap out of Richard Harris. That's intense!

I feel like Aces & Eights is the best system I've seen to capture that.  I feel like these guys at Kenzer were trying to capture that, rather than designing for a certain type of gameplay or a certain mechanic. They just put together whatever they thought would achieve that kind of atmosphere and play.  On paper, so far, it seems to be working.  I have to roll the dice to find out for sure.

I could totally see a Doc Holiday character with this game. Starts out as a dentist. Then becomes a gambler.

Quote from: RoninI could totally see a Doc Holiday character with this game. Starts out as a dentist. Then becomes a gambler.

There you go.  Perfect example.

Quote from: TonyLB......."And then it'd be really cool and dramatic ... if you were a gunfighter ... you're sorta screwed if you're a barber or a whore, though."

 Well - that just makes sense. If You're a whore - you get screwed for money.

Tho, if you wacth "Deadwood" - they can still be movers and shakers in a town and get into some awkward adventures.


- Ed C.

I like that gunfighters will have a hard time on other lifepaths. Again with Unforgiven--Gene Hackman trying to build that freakin house . . .
This is a very sweet looking game.