Not wanting to derail the other thread, I was curious as to what exactly constitutes the "alternate history" of the A&8s setting? What's the point of divergence? what's the setting like at the theoretical campaign starting point?
Is it relatively believable, or is it full of ridiculous premises a la Deadlands (which, even with all the magic and shaman powers and steampunk stripped out, would still make no fucking sense as an AH?).
RPGPundit
It's an interesting alternate history setting with some definite possibilities.
The Civil war ended with a stalemate. The North settled for Kentucky, half of Tennessee, and Arkansas, with the South retaining the core of the South and Cuba joined the CSA. The Lone Star Republic of Texas, of course, is an Independent Country which annexed half of Louisiana. Native Americans were resettled into what is present day Oklahoma and formed an Independent country known as Sequoyah with the remainder of the conquered tribes of the East. Mexico has most of the West Coast except the gold country around San Francisco (Which is one of the United States known as the Republic of California), The Mormons have a state in Mexico known as Deseret, They supported the South in the Civil war, and were attacked by the Mexicans, and became, well... militant survivalists mostly hostile to outsiders.
Colorado is divided into three zones, Mexican, U.S. Northwest Territories, and Republic of Texas. I doubt the map boundaries in the book are even remotely accurate as the geography would make the defense of certain mountainous regions a certainty with even a small force. In any event the Northwest Territories are wide open spaces with groups from all factions and the Native Americans roaming in bands through the area, though the United States officially claims the "territories" and sends settlers there.
The games I have been interested in to date, are set earlier, even before Texas went Independent, right after the Spanish first settled New Mexico, before the Railroads (Iron Horses) arrived, and when the Spaniards were still working things out with the locals.
Oh, and the French kept Nouveau Orleans, making it a seedy haven for outlaws, smugglers, deserters from both the North and South, and a friendly port of call for Europeans in general.
Oh, Christ. ANOTHER alternate wild west where the South didn't fall? Let me guess, they got rid of slavery anyways, and you can play a black Confederate officer or something? :rolleyes:
RPGPundit
Dude, what's your beef with Deadlands? It's a great game, IMO. Terribly funny.
Hrrrm?!! Uhh... No... The South kept their slaves. Least I didn't read anywhere in the core book history about the Southern emancipation.
I suppose you could play a Black French Officer, or a Black Spanish Officer, or a Black Union Officer, or a Black British Officer. But then again, there were officers like this during the real civil war anyway.
The Civil War in this alternate history actually took place from 1852-1855, and only ended in a truce with the direct Intervention of France on the Southern side (Hence Nouveau Orleans). technically, the war was still on, only being held in check by an indefinite pause until a peace treaty was signed in 1857 when the Democrats came into power.
Looking through this here, I'm not sure how Cuba ended up being Confederate though...
And hey, any Western game that includes head markings and coloration for horses, and leg markings and coloration as well as temperament and vices for horses is an automatic win. I learned how to ride on Wyoming bred Cutting Horses and can personally attest to the willfull disregard for the rider that these half broken horses display with a gusto.
A lot of the mechanics are worked out with a deck of cards, and poker chips. There's basic stats for a wide range of NPC's, You have reputation, fame, awards, profession paths, skills, and nice detailed illustrated examples of cattle drives.
Ranged combat is based on speed, and aiming. The shotgun clock game aid and some illustrations determine what you hit (if anything) when you miss, and of course determines shotgun blast patterns.
Even though I don't personally use it, the setting has possibilities, and the game itself is probably the Best Western RPG ever made.
Yes I remember rolling my eyes at the alternative west of Aces & Eights until I read it was an earlier Civil War that triggered the present situation. Never did read what was the exact Point of Departure.
One of the earliest changes is that Henry Clay (opposed to expansion) won the 1844 election instead of James K Polk (in favor of Manifest Destiny). Then, with the Civil War starting a decade before it did in our history, the North doesn't have as much infrastructure/resources in place as it did in our history 10 yrs later, so the South is able to fight to a stalemate.
There were also several other factors besides that that affected the South's 'win' (e.g. Texas neutrality, the South getting French aid in exchange for New Orleans, etc.). Even with a victory, the South is still very battered, poor, etc as it was in our history, though. The occasional border skirmish still occurs here and there, I believe. It's also a bit like the US/Russia Cold War with lots of opportunity for spying (as mentioned in our upcoming Trouble on the Sequoyah Star adventure).
Everything's based on stuff that could easily have happened in our world, but didn't, usually due to one or more persons in the government or military taking a different course of action (e.g. West Virginia is named Kanawha, and the South purchases Cuba).
Quote from: Mark Plemmons;302498One of the earliest changes is that Henry Clay (opposed to expansion) won the 1844 election instead of James K Polk (in favor of Manifest Destiny). Then, with the Civil War starting a decade before it did in our history, the North doesn't have as much infrastructure/resources in place as it did in our history 10 yrs later, so the South is able to fight to a stalemate.
So the Mexican War was butterflied away? I can see how the subsequent events would follow. So compromise of 1850 never happened and the unresolved issues exploded into Civil War two years later?
Did you explain how Texas was able to remain solvent? They were near bankruptcy when they were annexed by the United States. I know it may sound a bit detailed but actually would have large ramifications for how a independent Texas would operate. For example if the British bailed them out and Texas become little more than a British Protectorate then that makes a difference in types of plot and NPCs that would be created for Texans.
Quote from: RPGPundit;302391Oh, Christ. ANOTHER alternate wild west where the South didn't fall? Let me guess, they got rid of slavery anyways, and you can play a black Confederate officer or something? :rolleyes:
RPGPundit
This was covered in the other thread actually. The alternate history was created to create a Wild West that would remain Wild for a long time to come rather than die out, and slavery still exists.
Quote from: estar;302520So the Mexican War was butterflied away? I can see how the subsequent events would follow. So compromise of 1850 never happened and the unresolved issues exploded into Civil War two years later?
Did you explain how Texas was able to remain solvent? They were near bankruptcy when they were annexed by the United States. I know it may sound a bit detailed but actually would have large ramifications for how a independent Texas would operate. For example if the British bailed them out and Texas become little more than a British Protectorate then that makes a difference in types of plot and NPCs that would be created for Texans.
I didn't write the history section, and I'm not personally familiar with the details of the Mexican War, so I can't answer that question in detail. There's about eight pages of info on the history of Texas and Mexico if you check out the book.
The A&8 alternate history actually sounds pretty cool.
I wonder how fares Canada, er, British North America, in this timeline?
Quote from: Idinsinuation;302523The alternate history was created to create a Wild West that would remain Wild for a long time to come rather than die out,
How long do you need it to last? Every decent Old West campaign I've run has been much more day to day than any other campaign except maybe D&D. It lakes a loooong time to play out a single year so the 1830s to 1890s is a pretty long time, unless you have a lot of downtime, which seems kind of counterproductive in an Old West game (of course, I run my games more movie-esque Old West though, so that might be the difference).
Pete
Quote from: SunBoy;302399Dude, what's your beef with Deadlands? It's a great game, IMO. Terribly funny.
Deadlands is a FUN game, I don't know if I'd call it "funny".
But it really fails utterly to stand up as alternate history.
At least it has the "supernatural powers did it" excuse for that fact, though. I assume Aces & Eights does not?
Also, Deadlands totally whitewashes southern racism and slavery just because the authors clearly thought that the confederacy was "really cool".
RPGPundit
Quote from: Mark Plemmons;302498One of the earliest changes is that Henry Clay (opposed to expansion) won the 1844 election instead of James K Polk (in favor of Manifest Destiny). Then, with the Civil War starting a decade before it did in our history, the North doesn't have as much infrastructure/resources in place as it did in our history 10 yrs later, so the South is able to fight to a stalemate.
There were also several other factors besides that that affected the South's 'win' (e.g. Texas neutrality, the South getting French aid in exchange for New Orleans, etc.). Even with a victory, the South is still very battered, poor, etc as it was in our history, though. The occasional border skirmish still occurs here and there, I believe. It's also a bit like the US/Russia Cold War with lots of opportunity for spying (as mentioned in our upcoming Trouble on the Sequoyah Star adventure).
Everything's based on stuff that could easily have happened in our world, but didn't, usually due to one or more persons in the government or military taking a different course of action (e.g. West Virginia is named Kanawha, and the South purchases Cuba).
Ok, I will say that this is heads and tails more credible that many of the other premises I've seen.
A combination of "slower western expansion" plus "less industrialized north" plus "War starts earlier" would definitely create a much likelier scenario where the war would end in stalemate, at least for a time.
What is the starting date of the campaign? What year is it?
RPGPundit
Quote from: Idinsinuation;302523This was covered in the other thread actually. The alternate history was created to create a Wild West that would remain Wild for a long time to come rather than die out, and slavery still exists.
Yes, that was said, but I wanted more specific details about HOW.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Akrasia;302545The A&8 alternate history actually sounds pretty cool.
I wonder how fares Canada, er, British North America, in this timeline?
A wild and dangerous place:
(http://www.harkavagrant.com/history/samsteelesmall.png)
Quote from: RPGPundit;302648Deadlands is a FUN game, I don't know if I'd call it "funny".
But it really fails utterly to stand up as alternate history.
At least it has the "supernatural powers did it" excuse for that fact, though. I assume Aces & Eights does not?
Also, Deadlands totally whitewashes southern racism and slavery just because the authors clearly thought that the confederacy was "really cool".
RPGPundit
Dude, you can play a zombie cowboy mage who cheats gods at poker! I did mean funny. As in, you read it and go "Uh?" (art and layout help), and then [beavis&buttheadvoice]"Cool!"[/beavis&buttheadvoice].
But you do have to keep in mind I wouldn't know history if it bit me, too. So ok, I get it. Probably why I'm totally threadjacking here. Sorry, guys, I'll shut up now.
Quote from: GameDaddy;302411Looking through this here, I'm not sure how Cuba ended up being Confederate though...
In real history:
Cuba petitioned to be a state in the 1850s, but Congress would not admit it or consider it because it would have added yet another Slave State to the country.
If they were dealing with a Confederate government, that would not have been an issue.
The starting date is 1868.
Here's the basic explanation for 'why an alternate history' from the book itself.
While you're free to run your campaign in any setting (historical or otherwise), the official setting for Aces & Eights is the Shattered Frontier. This is where most of your campaign will unfold. It's also the default setting for any future Aces & Eights supplements and adventures.
The Shattered Frontier is based on the American Old West, but with an alternative history spin. Simply put, events took a different turn at key moments in history, resulting in a very different political landscape.
Why an alternative history as opposed to a historical setting? The benefits of an alternative history setting are manyfold.
For one, it frees the players/GM from history and allows them to fill in the blanks and write their own. No worry of a player pointing out, "Hey! No fair. Smokeless gunpowder wasn't invented until 1886!"
It also prevents players from acting on knowledge their characters wouldn't have. "Gee, I think I'll look for gold over here near Cripple Creek. I've got a funny feeling about that spot."
Most importantly, it adds a bit of mystery to the setting. It gives that feeling of embarking into the unknown that would otherwise not be possible.
For those players and GMs who prefer a real history setting – no problem. The rules themselves apply to both approaches and the library (or the internet for that matter) is filled with material covering every aspect of the American Old West in minutia.