A published study that polled gamers and non-gamers of different ethnicities revealed what I already suspected about the level of public support for RPG Wokist claims.
#dnd #ttrpg #osr
My thoughts/feedback:
Chomsky has a similar quote about framing what questions are radical and what are okay. I don't read his work, but Russel Brand pointed it out to me the other day...
Don't assume that conservatives don't send their kids to college. There's really no choice these days. It's high school 2.0...
The "Call me Chato" channel on YouTube presents a theory that fresh woke liberal arts graduates are cheaper to hire, and so have an outsized influence on content being produced. He applies it to movies and such, but it likely applies to the whole as well. He calls it navel gazing, saying they make content mostly for themselves, and then are shocked when it doesn't land. It's good content, you might check it out.
I fully agree that wokism is the new Satanic Panic.
Quote from: mcbobbo on April 02, 2022, 12:55:16 PM
I fully agree that wokism is the new Satanic Panic.
It is not in the normal sense. The current "social justice" cult is just one in a series of these about every 20 years. Always the same patterns. And Im old enough that this now is my 3rd and the 4th is a mere 8 years off.
The Satanic Panic was just one head of the hydra this thing always becomes. Moral Ourage, Moral Guardians, Censorship, and the riling up of minorities under the guise of "equality". This wave is just the most damaging so far.
What was the first?
I did see some vestiges of the satanic panic in the late 90s in Canada, but it wasn't really serious. So this is the first one that really caught my attention.
Satanic Panic was first to touch RPGs, but overall some populist outrages are common every few years in democracies, and there are always hyenas willing to exploit or even simply cause one.
Arguably you could go back to Socrates.
"He was the teacher of Plato, who was in turn the teacher of Aristotle, and like Ozzy Osbourne, was repeatedly accused of corruption of the young." -- Ted Theodore Logan
Quote from: mcbobbo on April 02, 2022, 12:55:16 PMI fully agree that wokism is the new Satanic Panic.
I don't see them as at all similar. The Satanic Panic was a group of people outside the RPG world that were trying to convince people to not play D&D. They only managed to make D&D seem more cool and make the game more popular.
The Wokists or SJWs or whatever you want to call them, are a group that is inside the RPG industry and their goal is to make sure that certain people are not allowed to play RPGs. Even all the nonsense about orcs being racist is just a tool used to exclude certain people from the RPG community. And they have been overwhelmingly successful. Even the guy that made this video agrees with their central premise that people should be kicked out of the RPG hobby because of their personal beliefs. He only disagrees with where to draw the line.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 03, 2022, 11:32:56 AM
Quote from: mcbobbo on April 02, 2022, 12:55:16 PMI fully agree that wokism is the new Satanic Panic.
I don't see them as at all similar. The Satanic Panic was a group of people outside the RPG world that were trying to convince people to not play D&D. They only managed to make D&D seem more cool and make the game more popular.
The Wokists or SJWs or whatever you want to call them, are a group that is inside the RPG industry and their goal is to make sure that certain people are not allowed to play RPGs. Even all the nonsense about orcs being racist is just a tool used to exclude certain people from the RPG community. And they have been overwhelmingly successful. Even the guy that made this video agrees with their central premise that people should be kicked out of the RPG hobby because of their personal beliefs. He only disagrees with where to draw the line.
That's not exactly true. The Satanic Panic did have a negative impact on D&D (IIRC), forcing TSR to change the terms Demons and Fiends for other stuff, and also affected society as a whole beyond RPGs. Wokists involved in this stuff are also not exclusively industry insiders, but largely operate outside of it, threatening companies and demanding everyone else conforms to their views. And those inside the industry largely infiltrated it or fell for the brainwashing.
The only real difference is that wokists managed to be more thorough than the church ladies. But they're still religious fanatics trying to dictate what everyone else should think, say or be allowed to consume.
Orcs were not created by racists, were not intended to be racist, and don't correlate with racist attitudes. Also, dwarves are not Nazi propaganda aimed at Irish Jews (https://alexraizman.com/2020/07/12/fantastic-diversity-the-fantasy-genres-unfortunate-implications/amp/). Good to know.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 03, 2022, 11:32:56 AM
Quote from: mcbobbo on April 02, 2022, 12:55:16 PMI fully agree that wokism is the new Satanic Panic.
I don't see them as at all similar. The Satanic Panic was a group of people outside the RPG world that were trying to convince people to not play D&D. They only managed to make D&D seem more cool and make the game more popular.
The Wokists or SJWs or whatever you want to call them, are a group that is inside the RPG industry and their goal is to make sure that certain people are not allowed to play RPGs. Even all the nonsense about orcs being racist is just a tool used to exclude certain people from the RPG community. And they have been overwhelmingly successful. Even the guy that made this video agrees with their central premise that people should be kicked out of the RPG hobby because of their personal beliefs. He only disagrees with where to draw the line.
The Wokists are really just showing up full force in rpgs but the Woke Left has existed in this Woke form since the early 2000's, and it is just an extension of neo-Marxism. The Woke Left was able to get its foothold into society by subversion if higher education in universities, and from there it expanded. But social media is what has given the Woke Left true staying power.
Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 03, 2022, 11:32:56 AM
Quote from: mcbobbo on April 02, 2022, 12:55:16 PMI fully agree that wokism is the new Satanic Panic.
I don't see them as at all similar. The Satanic Panic was a group of people outside the RPG world that were trying to convince people to not play D&D. They only managed to make D&D seem more cool and make the game more popular.
The Wokists or SJWs or whatever you want to call them, are a group that is inside the RPG industry and their goal is to make sure that certain people are not allowed to play RPGs. Even all the nonsense about orcs being racist is just a tool used to exclude certain people from the RPG community. And they have been overwhelmingly successful. Even the guy that made this video agrees with their central premise that people should be kicked out of the RPG hobby because of their personal beliefs. He only disagrees with where to draw the line.
You're incorrect. The Wokist Entryist goals for RPGs is not "so certain people can't play", it is "
so tabletop RPGs as we know them will cease to exist".
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 03, 2022, 12:04:03 PM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 03, 2022, 11:32:56 AM
Quote from: mcbobbo on April 02, 2022, 12:55:16 PMI fully agree that wokism is the new Satanic Panic.
I don't see them as at all similar. The Satanic Panic was a group of people outside the RPG world that were trying to convince people to not play D&D. They only managed to make D&D seem more cool and make the game more popular.
The Wokists or SJWs or whatever you want to call them, are a group that is inside the RPG industry and their goal is to make sure that certain people are not allowed to play RPGs. Even all the nonsense about orcs being racist is just a tool used to exclude certain people from the RPG community. And they have been overwhelmingly successful. Even the guy that made this video agrees with their central premise that people should be kicked out of the RPG hobby because of their personal beliefs. He only disagrees with where to draw the line.
That's not exactly true. The Satanic Panic did have a negative impact on D&D (IIRC), forcing TSR to change the terms Demons and Fiends for other stuff, and also affected society as a whole beyond RPGs. Wokists involved in this stuff are also not exclusively industry insiders, but largely operate outside of it, threatening companies and demanding everyone else conforms to their views. And those inside the industry largely infiltrated it or fell for the brainwashing.
The only real difference is that wokists managed to be more thorough than the church ladies. But they're still religious fanatics trying to dictate what everyone else should think, say or be allowed to consume.
I'm not sure about this being the case. If I think of some of the top SJWs in RPGs they've been involved for a long time.
Cam Banks started out writing for Dragonlance decades ago and worked for MWP before the SJW infiltration of the hobby was obvious.
Fred Hicks was developing FATE as an off-shoot of FUDGE also long before it was obvious.
Cat Tobin was writing for The Circular back in 2005, so I'd assume Wikipedia saying she was working for UK gaming conventions in the '90s is true.
Now maybe they are just a minority and the majority came from the outside, but I'm pretty sure they were all invited in by the likes of Banks, Hicks and Tobin, rather than forcing their way in from the outside.
The Satanic Panic was always about embarrassing Christians for predicting that promoting moral degeneracy in media would lead to negative outcomes in society. Turns out they were 100% correct in their concerns.
The fact that the phrase "Satanic Panic" is even used is a demonstration that this was a media-led campaign to discredit middle-America & Christians simply by framing their concerns as ridiculous.
In that sense, Wokism is a continuation of the "Satanic Panic" because the same bad actors that brought us the Satanic Panic by demonizing legitimate concerns are now bringing us more of the same type of subversive propaganda in media.
Quote from: mightybrain on April 03, 2022, 07:06:27 AM
Quote from: migo on April 03, 2022, 06:28:19 AM
What was the first?
McCarthy?
Ehh, McCarthy wasn't entirely wrong. There were a ton of actual communists in Hollywood and hidden in American business, academia, and politics.
Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on April 03, 2022, 01:19:59 PM
Orcs were not created by racists, were not intended to be racist, and don't correlate with racist attitudes. Also, dwarves are not Nazi propaganda aimed at Irish Jews (https://alexraizman.com/2020/07/12/fantastic-diversity-the-fantasy-genres-unfortunate-implications/amp/). Good to know.
Nazis famously hated the Irish.
Quote from: migo on April 03, 2022, 02:35:23 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 03, 2022, 12:04:03 PM
Quote from: hedgehobbit on April 03, 2022, 11:32:56 AM
Quote from: mcbobbo on April 02, 2022, 12:55:16 PMI fully agree that wokism is the new Satanic Panic.
I don't see them as at all similar. The Satanic Panic was a group of people outside the RPG world that were trying to convince people to not play D&D. They only managed to make D&D seem more cool and make the game more popular.
The Wokists or SJWs or whatever you want to call them, are a group that is inside the RPG industry and their goal is to make sure that certain people are not allowed to play RPGs. Even all the nonsense about orcs being racist is just a tool used to exclude certain people from the RPG community. And they have been overwhelmingly successful. Even the guy that made this video agrees with their central premise that people should be kicked out of the RPG hobby because of their personal beliefs. He only disagrees with where to draw the line.
That's not exactly true. The Satanic Panic did have a negative impact on D&D (IIRC), forcing TSR to change the terms Demons and Fiends for other stuff, and also affected society as a whole beyond RPGs. Wokists involved in this stuff are also not exclusively industry insiders, but largely operate outside of it, threatening companies and demanding everyone else conforms to their views. And those inside the industry largely infiltrated it or fell for the brainwashing.
The only real difference is that wokists managed to be more thorough than the church ladies. But they're still religious fanatics trying to dictate what everyone else should think, say or be allowed to consume.
I'm not sure about this being the case. If I think of some of the top SJWs in RPGs they've been involved for a long time.
Cam Banks started out writing for Dragonlance decades ago and worked for MWP before the SJW infiltration of the hobby was obvious.
Fred Hicks was developing FATE as an off-shoot of FUDGE also long before it was obvious.
Cat Tobin was writing for The Circular back in 2005, so I'd assume Wikipedia saying she was working for UK gaming conventions in the '90s is true.
Now maybe they are just a minority and the majority came from the outside, but I'm pretty sure they were all invited in by the likes of Banks, Hicks and Tobin, rather than forcing their way in from the outside.
That would be covered at least in part by the "or fell for the brainwashing" portion I mentioned in my post. Even if some of them were already there and had progressive politics from the get go that isn't entirely the same thing as operating as SJWs that whole time, cuz this woke crap didn't really take hold till like a decade ago (arguably a bit earlier for some). And simply being "progressive" in the old sense of the word isn't exactly the same thing as being SJW in the sense it's understood today, or we might as well go back to slavery and revoke women's suffrage just to stick it to the SJWs cuz everything they claim to uphold is just tainted now.
And regardless of how many of them there are in the industry, people who actually work in RPGs are a drop in the bucket compared to the number of people outside of it exerting pressure and pushing this stuff. WotC didn't just decide one day to just put up a disclaimer on their old TSR products entirely on their own. They did so due to outside pressure from people raising a stink in social media, cuz some idiot who did not work for them at the time complained about Oriental Adventures.
Quote from: Zelen on April 03, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
The Satanic Panic was always about embarrassing Christians for predicting that promoting moral degeneracy in media would lead to negative outcomes in society. Turns out they were 100% correct in their concerns.
The fact that the phrase "Satanic Panic" is even used is a demonstration that this was a media-led campaign to discredit middle-America & Christians simply by framing their concerns as ridiculous.
In that sense, Wokism is a continuation of the "Satanic Panic" because the same bad actors that brought us the Satanic Panic by demonizing legitimate concerns are now bringing us more of the same type of subversive propaganda in media.
Nah, the Satanic Panic was an aptly named real thing that was about Christians forcing their views down people's throats as they've been doing for centuries before SJWs came into the scene. Which led to widespread social panic and even people being persecuted over made up allegations of sexual abuse and human sacrifice. If anything wokeism (and to a certain extent the now fading and barely relevant New Atheist movement) is at least in part a deranged backlash caused by the collective trauma of Western society being under the thumb of Christianity for over a thousand years trying to squash every sexual impulse and drive for free thought that humanity has, mixed up with White Guilt over slavery and the exaggerated belief that men purposefully oppressed women throughout the entire span of human history.
And the idea that the Satanic Panic was somehow some sort of made up conspiracy concocted by the media to discredit Christianity is laughable revisionist history that's a testament to how fucked society is going to be once this woke nonsense gets squashed and the pendulum swings back with Christian puritanism making a comeback.
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 04, 2022, 01:39:35 AM
Nah, the Satanic Panic was an aptly named real thing that was about Christians forcing their views down people's throats as they've been doing for centuries before SJWs came into the scene. Which led to widespread social panic and even people being persecuted over made up allegations of sexual abuse and human sacrifice. If anything wokeism (and to a certain extent the now fading and barely relevant New Atheist movement) is at least in part a deranged backlash caused by the collective trauma of Western society being under the thumb of Christianity for over a thousand years trying to squash every sexual impulse and drive for free thought that humanity has, mixed up with White Guilt over slavery and the exaggerated belief that men purposefully oppressed women throughout the entire span of human history.
Well, as a devout Christian and an avid RPG hobbyist I'll just say I have a much different view on this and view Christianity as a very positive thing overall. It's useful to keep in mind that Christians are not a monolithic group. There are things almost all of us have in common, but there are also vastly different philosophies and worldviews. Frex, when I and one other kid at my church played D&D as teens in the '80's (though not in the same group), we both talked about it openly and absolutely no one had a problem with it.
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 04, 2022, 01:39:35 AM
That would be covered at least in part by the "or fell for the brainwashing" portion I mentioned in my post. Even if some of them were already there and had progressive politics from the get go that isn't entirely the same thing as operating as SJWs that whole time, cuz this woke crap didn't really take hold till like a decade ago (arguably a bit earlier for some). And simply being "progressive" in the old sense of the word isn't exactly the same thing as being SJW in the sense it's understood today, or we might as well go back to slavery and revoke women's suffrage just to stick it to the SJWs cuz everything they claim to uphold is just tainted now.
No SJWs were SJWs from the get go. They all started out with progressive politics and then morphed into the more extreme forms. The concept of being an SJW wasn't even floated until the early 2000s, and that took a while to develop into what we see today. And that developed everywhere, it wasn't just in academics and they then inserted themselves in various feels, you had proto-SJWs turning into SJWs in every field.
Some hobbies were much more resistant to them than others, TTRPGs were unusually susceptible because most male players really wanted to get more women in the hobby, so they were very receptive to any ideas about making it more inclusive. That came as much from within as from the outside.
Quote from: Wrath of God on April 03, 2022, 06:44:24 AM
Satanic Panic was first to touch RPGs, but overall some populist outrages are common every few years in democracies, and there are always hyenas willing to exploit or even simply cause one.
In its modern form it goes back at least to the early 1900s in much more low key form. That is till that eras version of femnazis started murdering people. Theres always some boogyman that needs censoring.
Movies. Books, Comics, Music etc, and before RPGs it was comics probably and before that books and on and on. Usually some focus on just one, with the rest getting tertiary flack. Just as the Satanic Panic prior branched out to music. Unless Im getting my eras reversed. Its a little before my time!
They need something popular as their boogyman. It would not surprise me if the next wave goes after superheroes or something else thats popular in 8 years.
Quote from: Zelen on April 03, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
The Satanic Panic was always about embarrassing Christians for predicting that promoting moral degeneracy in media would lead to negative outcomes in society. Turns out they were 100% correct in their concerns.
The fact that the phrase "Satanic Panic" is even used is a demonstration that this was a media-led campaign to discredit middle-America & Christians simply by framing their concerns as ridiculous.
In that sense, Wokism is a continuation of the "Satanic Panic" because the same bad actors that brought us the Satanic Panic by demonizing legitimate concerns are now bringing us more of the same type of subversive propaganda in media.
You are an idiot then if you believe that.
Yes the media fed off it. But I can very much confirm that the churches were in on this wherever the fearmongering took hold. As I have mentioned in other threads on the subject. One of my players way back became a victim of this years after. He was taken away to be "deprogrammed"... And I believe the mother of two of my other players moved out of state to "protect" them. The local library even wrecked the meeting room we'd rent and framed us for it. Probably more I never heard of. Stackpole has a web page dedicated to his own war on on the satanic panic.
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 01, 2022, 06:58:29 PM
A published study that polled gamers and non-gamers of different ethnicities revealed what I already suspected about the level of public support for RPG Wokist claims.
#dnd #ttrpg #osr
Dear RPGPundit, I would be grateful if you can report the source of your statement about the lowering of WOTC unit sold by recent books. I've tryied to find those data but without success.
Quote from: Zelen on April 03, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
The Satanic Panic was always about embarrassing Christians for predicting that promoting moral degeneracy in media would lead to negative outcomes in society. Turns out they were 100% correct in their concerns.
The fact that the phrase "Satanic Panic" is even used is a demonstration that this was a media-led campaign to discredit middle-America & Christians simply by framing their concerns as ridiculous.
In that sense, Wokism is a continuation of the "Satanic Panic" because the same bad actors that brought us the Satanic Panic by demonizing legitimate concerns are now bringing us more of the same type of subversive propaganda in media.
While the abstract concept of "media drives culture" is a possibly interesting topic, the "concerns" of the Satanic Panickers were no more "legitimate" than those of the Wokists.
Quote from: Zalman on April 04, 2022, 10:43:08 AM
Quote from: Zelen on April 03, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
The Satanic Panic was always about embarrassing Christians for predicting that promoting moral degeneracy in media would lead to negative outcomes in society. Turns out they were 100% correct in their concerns.
The fact that the phrase "Satanic Panic" is even used is a demonstration that this was a media-led campaign to discredit middle-America & Christians simply by framing their concerns as ridiculous.
In that sense, Wokism is a continuation of the "Satanic Panic" because the same bad actors that brought us the Satanic Panic by demonizing legitimate concerns are now bringing us more of the same type of subversive propaganda in media.
While the abstract concept of "media drives culture" is a possibly interesting topic, the "concerns" of the Satanic Panickers were no more "legitimate" than those of the Wokists.
I think that what Zelen is trying to say is that some legitimate concerns were lumped in with the Satanic Panic to delegitimize them.
Seeing as how the Slippery Slope "Fallacy" has turned out to be an accurate prediction in so many ways I tend to agree with him. Even if I was one of the people screaming Slippery Slope "Fallacy"! In the 90's early 2000's.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 04, 2022, 11:21:21 AM
Quote from: Zalman on April 04, 2022, 10:43:08 AM
Quote from: Zelen on April 03, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
The Satanic Panic was always about embarrassing Christians for predicting that promoting moral degeneracy in media would lead to negative outcomes in society. Turns out they were 100% correct in their concerns.
The fact that the phrase "Satanic Panic" is even used is a demonstration that this was a media-led campaign to discredit middle-America & Christians simply by framing their concerns as ridiculous.
In that sense, Wokism is a continuation of the "Satanic Panic" because the same bad actors that brought us the Satanic Panic by demonizing legitimate concerns are now bringing us more of the same type of subversive propaganda in media.
While the abstract concept of "media drives culture" is a possibly interesting topic, the "concerns" of the Satanic Panickers were no more "legitimate" than those of the Wokists.
I think that what Zelen is trying to say is that some legitimate concerns were lumped in with the Satanic Panic to delegitimize them.
Seeing as how the Slippery Slope "Fallacy" has turned out to be an accurate prediction in so many ways I tend to agree with him. Even if I was one of the people screaming Slippery Slope "Fallacy"! In the 90's early 2000's.
Plus, those who happened to be accurate in loosely identifying a problem are not always correct in their deeper analysis of the problem, much less their solutions for it. Especially when a particular solution falls into the category of "let me determine how I can tell other people how to live for their own good".
There's two kinds of people: Those that want to control others and those that understand that's almost always a bad idea. Power of
any kind attracts the first type.
Which is all a separate issue from the fact that the media bigwigs would use any stick to try to whack Christian fundamentalists. If they can find a stick that has legit uses on particular targets in the zone, so much the better. This is similar to but opposite the way they will try to use any stick to whack opponents of SJW's, but the thought process is the same--will to power.
Quote from: Mishihari on April 04, 2022, 03:53:07 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 04, 2022, 01:39:35 AM
Nah, the Satanic Panic was an aptly named real thing that was about Christians forcing their views down people's throats as they've been doing for centuries before SJWs came into the scene. Which led to widespread social panic and even people being persecuted over made up allegations of sexual abuse and human sacrifice. If anything wokeism (and to a certain extent the now fading and barely relevant New Atheist movement) is at least in part a deranged backlash caused by the collective trauma of Western society being under the thumb of Christianity for over a thousand years trying to squash every sexual impulse and drive for free thought that humanity has, mixed up with White Guilt over slavery and the exaggerated belief that men purposefully oppressed women throughout the entire span of human history.
Well, as a devout Christian and an avid RPG hobbyist I'll just say I have a much different view on this and view Christianity as a very positive thing overall. It's useful to keep in mind that Christians are not a monolithic group. There are things almost all of us have in common, but there are also vastly different philosophies and worldviews. Frex, when I and one other kid at my church played D&D as teens in the '80's (though not in the same group), we both talked about it openly and absolutely no one had a problem with it.
The fact that Christians aren't a monolith and that not all of them are deranged religious zealots doesn't remove the fact that Christianity was in many ways an oppressive force that remained in power in Europe for over a thousand years and committed numerous atrocities to retain their control that make the decade or two we've endured of online ravings and cancellations carried out by rainbow haired idiots with pronouns in their bio look like a cakewalk and a day at a spa. As much as I despise these SJW cretins all I've suffered from them is the mental anguish of reading their deranged social media posts, enduring their impact on entertainment media, including gaming, living in fear of potential cancellations and watching all (or at least a significant chunk) the progress achieved by Western society and the Enlightenment over the last few hundred years go down the drain in just a decade or two. If I had been alive a few hundred years ago I would've been tortured, have my fingers chopped up for writing heretical views or maybe burned at the stake for certain spiritual experiences I've had.
Even as a kid I had to endure social pressure into conforming to Christian views and saw the impact of the Satanic Panic, not in gaming per se, but other areas of society. But at least I was shielded by the civil rights that SJWs have sought to destroy and won't be there once Christian fundamentalism makes a comeback, propelled by the notion that they were "right" all along and use the excesses of the SJW cretins as an excuse to impose their own (again).
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 04, 2022, 11:21:21 AM
I think that what Zelen is trying to say is that some legitimate concerns were lumped in with the Satanic Panic to delegitimize them.
Seeing as how the Slippery Slope "Fallacy" has turned out to be an accurate prediction in so many ways I tend to agree with him. Even if I was one of the people screaming Slippery Slope "Fallacy"! In the 90's early 2000's.
Correct. The entire point of the "Satanic Panic" was to elevate the craziest perspectives in order to smear the reasonable perspectives. This is a perennial tactic for the powerful people & institutions that control media to demonize reasonable grassroots concerns and push their own agendas.
Look at what the supposedly-powerful Christian lobby was able to accomplish in the real world: They got a small-time book publisher to change the classification names of a couple of creatures. Does that strike you as particularly consequential?
I'm not going to say weird and crazy people don't exist, they obviously do. But they are outliers and the media/propaganda purposefully drives & elevates this kind of behavior. During this time frame my Church ran D&D games and we saw no problem with heroes going and killing demons, because this is a good and heroic thing to do.
Quote from: Zelen on April 04, 2022, 01:06:14 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 04, 2022, 11:21:21 AM
I think that what Zelen is trying to say is that some legitimate concerns were lumped in with the Satanic Panic to delegitimize them.
Seeing as how the Slippery Slope "Fallacy" has turned out to be an accurate prediction in so many ways I tend to agree with him. Even if I was one of the people screaming Slippery Slope "Fallacy"! In the 90's early 2000's.
Correct. The entire point of the "Satanic Panic" was to elevate the craziest perspectives in order to smear the reasonable perspectives. This is a perennial tactic for the powerful people & institutions that control media to demonize reasonable grassroots concerns and push their own agendas.
Look at what the supposedly-powerful Christian lobby was able to accomplish in the real world: They got a small-time book publisher to change the classification names of a couple of creatures. Does that strike you as particularly consequential?
I'm not going to say weird and crazy people don't exist, they obviously do. But they are outliers and the media/propaganda purposefully drives & elevates this kind of behavior. During this time frame my Church ran D&D games and we saw no problem with heroes going and killing demons, because this is a good and heroic thing to do.
I think the Satanic Panic did have it's roots on some Televangelists or they saw the opportunity to grift and did so.
On the other hand the media might very well blowed it out of proportion to get more eyes/sell more news papers (if it bleeds it leads).
And those who want to tell everybody how to live saw an oportunity to grab the power and did so.
Just look at the "liberal" demands of current year:
No boot babes, nascar babes, scantily clad women anywhere (unless it's some blueharied weirdo/landwhale).
Their demands in regards to relations between the sexes can only be solved by having a chaperone present while dating.
Instead of an Our Father they want you to use their cult's religious chants.
It's a religious movement masquerading as a secular one.
And boy did they managed to get way more power than Christians have had in the last 100 years.
Quote from: Omega on April 04, 2022, 06:23:43 AM
Quote from: Zelen on April 03, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
The Satanic Panic was always about embarrassing Christians for predicting that promoting moral degeneracy in media would lead to negative outcomes in society. Turns out they were 100% correct in their concerns.
The fact that the phrase "Satanic Panic" is even used is a demonstration that this was a media-led campaign to discredit middle-America & Christians simply by framing their concerns as ridiculous.
In that sense, Wokism is a continuation of the "Satanic Panic" because the same bad actors that brought us the Satanic Panic by demonizing legitimate concerns are now bringing us more of the same type of subversive propaganda in media.
You are an idiot then if you believe that.
Yes the media fed off it. But I can very much confirm that the churches were in on this wherever the fearmongering took hold. As I have mentioned in other threads on the subject. One of my players way back became a victim of this years after. He was taken away to be "deprogrammed"... And I believe the mother of two of my other players moved out of state to "protect" them. The local library even wrecked the meeting room we'd rent and framed us for it. Probably more I never heard of. Stackpole has a web page dedicated to his own war on on the satanic panic.
Bolding mine. Just a link to The Pulling Report because it is relevant to the discussion and makes for some very interesting reading.
http://www.rpgstudies.net/stackpole/pulling_report.html (http://www.rpgstudies.net/stackpole/pulling_report.html)
Got a link to the study? Or is this just an elaborate April 1st joke? Woke women gave us the 18th amendment. Now they give us this. Their own actions aren't make a good case for womens sufferage.
Quote from: Zelen on April 04, 2022, 01:06:14 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 04, 2022, 11:21:21 AM
I think that what Zelen is trying to say is that some legitimate concerns were lumped in with the Satanic Panic to delegitimize them.
Seeing as how the Slippery Slope "Fallacy" has turned out to be an accurate prediction in so many ways I tend to agree with him. Even if I was one of the people screaming Slippery Slope "Fallacy"! In the 90's early 2000's.
Correct. The entire point of the "Satanic Panic" was to elevate the craziest perspectives in order to smear the reasonable perspectives. This is a perennial tactic for the powerful people & institutions that control media to demonize reasonable grassroots concerns and push their own agendas.
Funny how similar could be said of progressivism and left wing politics in general if we want to run apologia for them.
Quote from: Zelen on April 04, 2022, 01:06:14 PM
Look at what the supposedly-powerful Christian lobby was able to accomplish in the real world: They got a small-time book publisher to change the classification names of a couple of creatures. Does that strike you as particularly consequential?
Except that they did way more than get one single publisher to change the names of some monsters in their books. They went on to try to find supposed Satanic messages and imagery in everything from books, music and movies, and even logos. One nut once tried to convince my mom that a toothpaste's parent company's logo was satanic (it was this one → www.atlasobscura.com/articles/procter-gamble-satan-conspiracy-theory.amp).
Countless police resources were invested investigating bogus sexual abuse and incidents of human sacrifices that never happened. Numerous court cases where held over bogus allegations, including musicians accused of causing teenage suicides with their lyrics, and daycare center workers who's life was ruined over allegations of ritual abuse (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial).
But I'm sure there were plenty of valid concerns behind all these witch hunts.
Quote from: Zelen on April 04, 2022, 01:06:14 PM
I'm not going to say weird and crazy people don't exist, they obviously do. But they are outliers and the media/propaganda purposefully drives & elevates this kind of behavior. During this time frame my Church ran D&D games and we saw no problem with heroes going and killing demons, because this is a good and heroic thing to do.
Again, same could be said about progressive politics concerned about actual police targeting of black people or persecution of homosexuals, which historically did happen. But just because some progressive groups did fight for actual gay right or against real police brutality that doesn't mean that the crazies that later took over don't exist and don't have an impact on society. And those crazies have existed and have had influence far less time than the Christian crazies.
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 04, 2022, 12:51:35 PM
Quote from: Mishihari on April 04, 2022, 03:53:07 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 04, 2022, 01:39:35 AM
Nah, the Satanic Panic was an aptly named real thing that was about Christians forcing their views down people's throats as they've been doing for centuries before SJWs came into the scene. Which led to widespread social panic and even people being persecuted over made up allegations of sexual abuse and human sacrifice. If anything wokeism (and to a certain extent the now fading and barely relevant New Atheist movement) is at least in part a deranged backlash caused by the collective trauma of Western society being under the thumb of Christianity for over a thousand years trying to squash every sexual impulse and drive for free thought that humanity has, mixed up with White Guilt over slavery and the exaggerated belief that men purposefully oppressed women throughout the entire span of human history.
Well, as a devout Christian and an avid RPG hobbyist I'll just say I have a much different view on this and view Christianity as a very positive thing overall. It's useful to keep in mind that Christians are not a monolithic group. There are things almost all of us have in common, but there are also vastly different philosophies and worldviews. Frex, when I and one other kid at my church played D&D as teens in the '80's (though not in the same group), we both talked about it openly and absolutely no one had a problem with it.
The fact that Christians aren't a monolith and that not all of them are deranged religious zealots doesn't remove the fact that Christianity was in many ways an oppressive force that remained in power in Europe for over a thousand years and committed numerous atrocities to retain their control that make the decade or two we've endured of online ravings and cancellations carried out by rainbow haired idiots with pronouns in their bio look like a cakewalk and a day at a spa. As much as I despise these SJW cretins all I've suffered from them is the mental anguish of reading their deranged social media posts, enduring their impact on entertainment media, including gaming, living in fear of potential cancellations and watching all (or at least a significant chunk) the progress achieved by Western society and the Enlightenment over the last few hundred years go down the drain in just a decade or two. If I had been alive a few hundred years ago I would've been tortured, have my fingers chopped up for writing heretical views or maybe burned at the stake for certain spiritual experiences I've had.
Even as a kid I had to endure social pressure into conforming to Christian views and saw the impact of the Satanic Panic, not in gaming per se, but other areas of society. But at least I was shielded by the civil rights that SJWs have sought to destroy and won't be there once Christian fundamentalism makes a comeback, propelled by the notion that they were "right" all along and use the excesses of the SJW cretins as an excuse to impose their own (again).
There is no country on Earth that does not have social pressure forcing you to conform to the cultural views.
The difference is that the godless heathens caused far more death and destruction then could ever be laid at the feet of Christians.
Quote from: RPGPundit on April 03, 2022, 02:14:43 PM
You're incorrect. The Wokist Entryist goals for RPGs is not "so certain people can't play", it is "so tabletop RPGs as we know them will cease to exist".
Think of SJWs having three goals in descending order:
1. Convert RPGs to some form that they find acceptable (but of course no one else will want).
2. Destroy RPGs.
3. Leave RPGs as they are.
Due to their general incompetence, it's often hard to tell 1 and 2 apart.
Quote from: Zelen on April 04, 2022, 06:23:43 AM
The Satanic Panic was always about embarrassing Christians for predicting that promoting moral degeneracy in media would lead to negative outcomes in society. Turns out they were 100% correct in their concerns.
The fact that the phrase "Satanic Panic" is even used is a demonstration that this was a media-led campaign to discredit middle-America & Christians simply by framing their concerns as ridiculous.
In that sense, Wokism is a continuation of the "Satanic Panic" because the same bad actors that brought us the Satanic Panic by demonizing legitimate concerns are now bringing us more of the same type of subversive propaganda in media.
Correct, "Look at the crazy Christians" is one of the mainstream media's favorite games...
Quote from: Omega on April 03, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
You are an idiot then if you believe that.
Yes the media fed off it. But I can very much confirm that the churches were in on this wherever the fearmongering took hold.
Which Churches though?
Zelen is 100% correct. No Large national, international, or mainstream Christian Church released a statement of any kind even mentioning that RPG's were the devil.
Did some small/regional/independent Churches whose pastors got their preaching certificates via mail order fall into the media hype, and cause misery for their younger parishioners??
Yes, that also happened. Unfortunate, but that was absolutely the intent of the media fearmongering.
Quote from: Omega on April 03, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
As I have mentioned in other threads on the subject. One of my players way back became a victim of this years after. He was taken away to be "deprogrammed"... And I believe the mother of two of my other players moved out of state to "protect" them. The local library even wrecked the meeting room we'd rent and framed us for it. Probably more I never heard of. Stackpole has a web page dedicated to his own war on on the satanic panic.
Pundit was right in his video: It was all busy body Karens...
One look at the "Christians" that were pushing the D&D is the devil narrative will show that they were all a bunch of Theological nobodies.
http://www.rpgstudies.net/stackpole/pulling_report.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_controversies
The "satanic panic" effect on D&D was very regional.
For me - I belong to what many would consider a very conservative Christian church. The "D&D is the devil" didn't even register at the time. My Church had nothing to say.
Most didn't, as it was obvious nonsense from the jump.
Unfortunately for those that lived in areas with gullible Churchians,
it sucked.And so the: "Those filthy
Christians burn my books.." ect., gets trotted out every time the Satanic panic gets mentioned in RPG discussions.
Of course in hindsight this was the goal all along - To try and permanently poison the well for Christianity amongst the young in the hobby.
Which explains why a bunch of religious charlatans that belonged to no mainstream Christian church were suddenly given a mainstream media bullhorn.
Quote from: Jaeger on April 04, 2022, 05:47:33 PM...Quotes...
You have your quote attribution incorrect.
Quote from: Shasarak on April 04, 2022, 04:56:46 PM
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 04, 2022, 12:51:35 PM
Quote from: Mishihari on April 04, 2022, 03:53:07 AM
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 04, 2022, 01:39:35 AM
Nah, the Satanic Panic was an aptly named real thing that was about Christians forcing their views down people's throats as they've been doing for centuries before SJWs came into the scene. Which led to widespread social panic and even people being persecuted over made up allegations of sexual abuse and human sacrifice. If anything wokeism (and to a certain extent the now fading and barely relevant New Atheist movement) is at least in part a deranged backlash caused by the collective trauma of Western society being under the thumb of Christianity for over a thousand years trying to squash every sexual impulse and drive for free thought that humanity has, mixed up with White Guilt over slavery and the exaggerated belief that men purposefully oppressed women throughout the entire span of human history.
Well, as a devout Christian and an avid RPG hobbyist I'll just say I have a much different view on this and view Christianity as a very positive thing overall. It's useful to keep in mind that Christians are not a monolithic group. There are things almost all of us have in common, but there are also vastly different philosophies and worldviews. Frex, when I and one other kid at my church played D&D as teens in the '80's (though not in the same group), we both talked about it openly and absolutely no one had a problem with it.
The fact that Christians aren't a monolith and that not all of them are deranged religious zealots doesn't remove the fact that Christianity was in many ways an oppressive force that remained in power in Europe for over a thousand years and committed numerous atrocities to retain their control that make the decade or two we've endured of online ravings and cancellations carried out by rainbow haired idiots with pronouns in their bio look like a cakewalk and a day at a spa. As much as I despise these SJW cretins all I've suffered from them is the mental anguish of reading their deranged social media posts, enduring their impact on entertainment media, including gaming, living in fear of potential cancellations and watching all (or at least a significant chunk) the progress achieved by Western society and the Enlightenment over the last few hundred years go down the drain in just a decade or two. If I had been alive a few hundred years ago I would've been tortured, have my fingers chopped up for writing heretical views or maybe burned at the stake for certain spiritual experiences I've had.
Even as a kid I had to endure social pressure into conforming to Christian views and saw the impact of the Satanic Panic, not in gaming per se, but other areas of society. But at least I was shielded by the civil rights that SJWs have sought to destroy and won't be there once Christian fundamentalism makes a comeback, propelled by the notion that they were "right" all along and use the excesses of the SJW cretins as an excuse to impose their own (again).
There is no country on Earth that does not have social pressure forcing you to conform to the cultural views.
The difference is that the godless heathens caused far more death and destruction then could ever be laid at the feet of Christians.
That's just whataboutism by appealing to the actions of people motivated by a murderous ideology who also happened to be godless heathens and ascribing those actions to all godless heathens in general, as if there are any examples of comparable atrocities committed by other godless heathens who aren't communists. Which doesn't absolve Christians regardless, or change the fact that they're some of the worst perpetrators when it comes to forcing their views on others, then playing the victim when they don't let them.
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 04, 2022, 06:49:13 PM
Quote from: Shasarak on April 04, 2022, 04:56:46 PM
There is no country on Earth that does not have social pressure forcing you to conform to the cultural views.
The difference is that the godless heathens caused far more death and destruction then could ever be laid at the feet of Christians.
That's just whataboutism by appealing to the actions of people motivated by a murderous ideology who also happened to be godless heathens and ascribing those actions to all godless heathens in general, as if there are any examples of comparable atrocities committed by other godless heathens who aren't communists. Which doesn't absolve Christians regardless, or change the fact that they're some of the worst perpetrators when it comes to forcing their views on others, then playing the victim when they don't let them.
Ha, what aboutism indeed.
The only difference is that Christians make you feel bad for your badwrongthink instead of just putting you in a gulag camp so that they can harvest your organs at their leisure.
Quote from: Jaeger on April 04, 2022, 05:47:33 PM
Quote from: Zelen on April 04, 2022, 06:23:43 AM
The Satanic Panic was always about embarrassing Christians for predicting that promoting moral degeneracy in media would lead to negative outcomes in society. Turns out they were 100% correct in their concerns.
The fact that the phrase "Satanic Panic" is even used is a demonstration that this was a media-led campaign to discredit middle-America & Christians simply by framing their concerns as ridiculous.
In that sense, Wokism is a continuation of the "Satanic Panic" because the same bad actors that brought us the Satanic Panic by demonizing legitimate concerns are now bringing us more of the same type of subversive propaganda in media.
Correct, "Look at the crazy Christians" is one of the mainstream media's favorite games...
Quote from: Omega on April 03, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
You are an idiot then if you believe that.
Yes the media fed off it. But I can very much confirm that the churches were in on this wherever the fearmongering took hold.
Which Churches though?
Omega is 100% correct. No Large national, international, or mainstream Christian Church released a statement of any kind even mentioning that RPG's were the devil.
Did some small/regional/independent Churches whose pastors got their preaching certificates via mail order fall into the media hype, and cause misery for their younger parishioners??
Yes, that also happened. Unfortunate, but that was absolutely the intent of the media fearmongering.
Quote from: Omega on April 03, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
As I have mentioned in other threads on the subject. One of my players way back became a victim of this years after. He was taken away to be "deprogrammed"... And I believe the mother of two of my other players moved out of state to "protect" them. The local library even wrecked the meeting room we'd rent and framed us for it. Probably more I never heard of. Stackpole has a web page dedicated to his own war on on the satanic panic.
Pundit was right in his video: It was all busy body Karens...
One look at the "Christians" that were pushing the D&D is the devil narrative will show that they were all a bunch of Theological nobodies.
http://www.rpgstudies.net/stackpole/pulling_report.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_controversies
The "satanic panic" effect on D&D was very regional.
For me - I belong to what many would consider a very conservative Christian church. The "D&D is the devil" didn't even register at the time. My Church had nothing to say.
Most didn't, as it was obvious nonsense from the jump.
Unfortunately for those that lived in areas with gullible Churchians, it sucked.
And so the: "Those filthy Christians burn my books.." ect., gets trotted out every time the Satanic panic gets mentioned in RPG discussions.
Of course in hindsight this was the goal all along - To try and permanently poison the well for Christianity amongst the young in the hobby.
Which explains why a bunch of religious charlatans that belonged to no mainstream Christian church were suddenly given a mainstream media bullhorn.
This is just shifting the goalposts to "You can't name a specific Church mandating this and I didn't see at my church, therefore the Satanic Panic as good as didn't happen or can't be blamed on Christians (who did push it)." While also trotting out this "media likes to castigate Christians" narrative, like that means that Christians dindo nuttin!
It's basically the good old Christians are actually the victim when called out on their BS. Yet you expect me to believe that they're better than the SJWs somehow, when they've committed far worse atrocities throughout history for far longer than SJWs, and not only do they not accept responsibility for them, but always have some sort of apologia and blame shifting to wipe their hands of it as well.
Vision Storm, your out of control and uniformed bias is really showing through here, and that's the last thing I have to say on that topic to you on your points. You are doing the online equivalent of foaming at the mouth here, and it's sad given how you can be reasonable in so many other ways.
Quote from: Zelen on April 04, 2022, 06:00:58 PM
Quote from: Jaeger on April 04, 2022, 05:47:33 PM...Quotes...
You have your quote attribution incorrect.
You're right! fixed I hope...
Suckes that to parse quotes you have to do everything by hand...
Quote from: Zelen on April 04, 2022, 01:06:14 PM
The entire point of the "Satanic Panic" was to elevate the craziest perspectives in order to smear the reasonable perspectives.
What were the "reasonable perspectives" of the Satanic Panic (or whatever you prefer to call it)?
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 04, 2022, 06:56:55 PM
Quote from: Jaeger on April 04, 2022, 05:47:33 PM
Quote from: Zelen on April 04, 2022, 06:23:43 AM
The Satanic Panic was always about embarrassing Christians for predicting that promoting moral degeneracy in media would lead to negative outcomes in society. Turns out they were 100% correct in their concerns.
The fact that the phrase "Satanic Panic" is even used is a demonstration that this was a media-led campaign to discredit middle-America & Christians simply by framing their concerns as ridiculous.
In that sense, Wokism is a continuation of the "Satanic Panic" because the same bad actors that brought us the Satanic Panic by demonizing legitimate concerns are now bringing us more of the same type of subversive propaganda in media.
Correct, "Look at the crazy Christians" is one of the mainstream media's favorite games...
Quote from: Omega on April 03, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
You are an idiot then if you believe that.
Yes the media fed off it. But I can very much confirm that the churches were in on this wherever the fearmongering took hold.
Which Churches though?
Omega is 100% correct. No Large national, international, or mainstream Christian Church released a statement of any kind even mentioning that RPG's were the devil.
Did some small/regional/independent Churches whose pastors got their preaching certificates via mail order fall into the media hype, and cause misery for their younger parishioners??
Yes, that also happened. Unfortunate, but that was absolutely the intent of the media fearmongering.
Quote from: Omega on April 03, 2022, 10:04:14 PM
As I have mentioned in other threads on the subject. One of my players way back became a victim of this years after. He was taken away to be "deprogrammed"... And I believe the mother of two of my other players moved out of state to "protect" them. The local library even wrecked the meeting room we'd rent and framed us for it. Probably more I never heard of. Stackpole has a web page dedicated to his own war on on the satanic panic.
Pundit was right in his video: It was all busy body Karens...
One look at the "Christians" that were pushing the D&D is the devil narrative will show that they were all a bunch of Theological nobodies.
http://www.rpgstudies.net/stackpole/pulling_report.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dungeons_%26_Dragons_controversies
The "satanic panic" effect on D&D was very regional.
For me - I belong to what many would consider a very conservative Christian church. The "D&D is the devil" didn't even register at the time. My Church had nothing to say.
Most didn't, as it was obvious nonsense from the jump.
Unfortunately for those that lived in areas with gullible Churchians, it sucked.
And so the: "Those filthy Christians burn my books.." ect., gets trotted out every time the Satanic panic gets mentioned in RPG discussions.
Of course in hindsight this was the goal all along - To try and permanently poison the well for Christianity amongst the young in the hobby.
Which explains why a bunch of religious charlatans that belonged to no mainstream Christian church were suddenly given a mainstream media bullhorn.
This is just shifting the goalposts to "You can't name a specific Church mandating this and I didn't see at my church, therefore the Satanic Panic as good as didn't happen or can't be blamed on Christians (who did push it)." While also trotting out this "media likes to castigate Christians" narrative, like that means that Christians dindo nuttin!
It's basically the good old Christians are actually the victim when called out on their BS. Yet you expect me to believe that they're better than the SJWs somehow, when they've committed far worse atrocities throughout history for far longer than SJWs, and not only do they not accept responsibility for them, but always have some sort of apologia and blame shifting to wipe their hands of it as well.
Dude, there's no goalpost moving. As I've mentioned previously, my Catholic priest actively defended the D&D player from his proto-Karen mother.
And that's primarily who was behind the Satanic Panic... the fringe moral busybodies who just happened to be Christians. The media was happy to promote them as mainstream Christians because, just like today, the MSM lies.
Try actually searching for churches that condemned D&D. Go on. I'll wait. At best you're going to find fringe loons on message boards. Maybe you'll find a Chick Tract from a group so looney it makes the Ancient Aliens guys look credible by comparison (seriously, they also claimthat the Catholic Church started the Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Islam, the KKK, the mafia, and Communism in their quest to take over the world and deliver it to Satan).
Did the Satanic Panic happen? Certainly in some regions. But it wasn't the churches pushing it. It was Church Ladies.
Quote from: Zelen on April 04, 2022, 01:06:14 PM
Correct. The entire point of the "Satanic Panic" was to elevate the craziest perspectives in order to smear the reasonable perspectives. This is a perennial tactic for the powerful people & institutions that control media to demonize reasonable grassroots concerns and push their own agendas.
Except this wasnt some grassroots concern. It was flat out loony bin from the get go and just escalated from there. Essentially a variation on the prior and following "Satanic Panics" against music, comics, you name it. Usually theres some nut case at the core that for god unknown reasons people start believing.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 04, 2022, 01:17:10 PM
On the other hand the media might very well blowed it out of proportion to get more eyes/sell more news papers (if it bleeds it leads).
There isnt any might about this. 60 minutes had that nasty little piece on D&D and others did too. Here it is, a bit garbled in places but this and a few others just egged it all on.
Quote from: VisionStorm on April 04, 2022, 06:56:55 PM
This is just shifting the goalposts to "You can't name a specific Church mandating this and I didn't see at my church, therefore the Satanic Panic as good as didn't happen or can't be blamed on Christians (who did push it)." While also trotting out this "media likes to castigate Christians" narrative, like that means that Christians dindo nuttin!
It's basically the good old Christians are actually the victim when called out on their BS. Yet you expect me to believe that they're better than the SJWs somehow, when they've committed far worse atrocities throughout history for far longer than SJWs, and not only do they not accept responsibility for them, but always have some sort of apologia and blame shifting to wipe their hands of it as well.
The Stanic Panic definitely happened and many innocent RPG books were burned and on the other hand the good old Christians did manage to prevent Satan from creating Hell on Earth so your welcome I guess.
Speaking as a gamer who lived through the Satanic Panic, it was definitely a thing and I did have to actively hide D&D books from my mother because she'd throw away any she could find. Not really on the basis of any religious thing, more the general bad rep it had as making children go insane and wander the sewers thinking they were in a goblin cave and/or kill themselves. So you can thank 60 Minutes and their ilk for sensationalizing the shit out of the claims of Pat Pulling that her crazy son killed himself entirely because of D&D and not because of being crazy.
Quote from: Shasarak on April 05, 2022, 08:45:07 PM
The Stanic Panic definitely happened and many innocent RPG books were burned and on the other hand the good old Christians did manage to prevent Satan from creating Hell on Earth so your welcome I guess.
And more than a few lives were destroyed, like my friends. Your good ol christians snuffed out his soul.
But yeah. Keep downplaying it. Dig your hole ever deeper.
Quote from: Omega on April 05, 2022, 10:24:09 PM
Quote from: Shasarak on April 05, 2022, 08:45:07 PM
The Stanic Panic definitely happened and many innocent RPG books were burned and on the other hand the good old Christians did manage to prevent Satan from creating Hell on Earth so your welcome I guess.
And more than a few lives were destroyed, like my friends. Your good ol christians snuffed out his soul.
But yeah. Keep downplaying it. Dig your hole ever deeper.
Thank your friend for his service.
Quote from: Omega on April 05, 2022, 10:24:09 PM
Quote from: Shasarak on April 05, 2022, 08:45:07 PM
The Stanic Panic definitely happened and many innocent RPG books were burned and on the other hand the good old Christians did manage to prevent Satan from creating Hell on Earth so your welcome I guess.
And more than a few lives were destroyed, like my friends. Your good ol christians snuffed out his soul.
But yeah. Keep downplaying it. Dig your hole ever deeper.
Keep in mind Shasarak is well known for posting ironically. I have fell for it too. He's not saying that in an earnest way.
TLDR You're being trolled.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 06, 2022, 01:01:38 PM
Quote from: Omega on April 05, 2022, 10:24:09 PM
Quote from: Shasarak on April 05, 2022, 08:45:07 PM
The Stanic Panic definitely happened and many innocent RPG books were burned and on the other hand the good old Christians did manage to prevent Satan from creating Hell on Earth so your welcome I guess.
And more than a few lives were destroyed, like my friends. Your good ol christians snuffed out his soul.
But yeah. Keep downplaying it. Dig your hole ever deeper.
Keep in mind Shasarak is well known for posting ironically. I have fell for it too. He's not saying that in an earnest way.
TLDR You're being trolled.
I have a better response for anyone that would do such an abjectly hateful thing as what he just did. To mock someone for being tortured?
Welcome to the ignore list. You make Barker look like a saint.
Quote from: Banjo Destructo on April 04, 2022, 04:09:35 PM
Got a link to the study? Or is this just an elaborate April 1st joke? Woke women gave us the 18th amendment. Now they give us this. Their own actions aren't make a good case for womens sufferage.
I believe this is the study that Pundit is referring to.
https://www.christopherjferguson.com/Evil%20Orcs.pdf
I haven't listened to the whole video, so I'm not responding to him per se. I've skimmed the paper - but I don't take these kind of social science studies very seriously either way. It's a sample of 306 people recruited from online forums.
First we have bullshit where all Christians caused the satanic panic, then a ridiculous willful inability to see obvious sarcasm, then playing victim and trying to tie it to nazis. I had no idea bad faith and vapid malice could be stacked so high. Omega is hereby ignored.
Quote from: Omega on April 06, 2022, 11:14:28 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 06, 2022, 01:01:38 PM
Quote from: Omega on April 05, 2022, 10:24:09 PM
Quote from: Shasarak on April 05, 2022, 08:45:07 PM
The Stanic Panic definitely happened and many innocent RPG books were burned and on the other hand the good old Christians did manage to prevent Satan from creating Hell on Earth so your welcome I guess.
And more than a few lives were destroyed, like my friends. Your good ol christians snuffed out his soul.
But yeah. Keep downplaying it. Dig your hole ever deeper.
Keep in mind Shasarak is well known for posting ironically. I have fell for it too. He's not saying that in an earnest way.
TLDR You're being trolled.
I have a better response for anyone that would do such an abjectly hateful thing as what he just did. To mock someone for being tortured?
Welcome to the ignore list. You make Barker look like a saint.
Drama queen much?
Quote from: Omega on April 06, 2022, 11:14:28 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 06, 2022, 01:01:38 PM
Quote from: Omega on April 05, 2022, 10:24:09 PM
Quote from: Shasarak on April 05, 2022, 08:45:07 PM
The Stanic Panic definitely happened and many innocent RPG books were burned and on the other hand the good old Christians did manage to prevent Satan from creating Hell on Earth so your welcome I guess.
And more than a few lives were destroyed, like my friends. Your good ol christians snuffed out his soul.
But yeah. Keep downplaying it. Dig your hole ever deeper.
Keep in mind Shasarak is well known for posting ironically. I have fell for it too. He's not saying that in an earnest way.
TLDR You're being trolled.
I have a better response for anyone that would do such an abjectly hateful thing as what he just did. To mock someone for being tortured?
Welcome to the ignore list. You make Barker look like a saint.
Ignore the people who write pro-Nazi books and edit Holocaust denial journals, the real Nazis are people who make fun of things on the internet!
Quote from: Pat on April 07, 2022, 10:19:38 AM
Quote from: Omega on April 06, 2022, 11:14:28 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 06, 2022, 01:01:38 PM
Quote from: Omega on April 05, 2022, 10:24:09 PM
Quote from: Shasarak on April 05, 2022, 08:45:07 PM
The Stanic Panic definitely happened and many innocent RPG books were burned and on the other hand the good old Christians did manage to prevent Satan from creating Hell on Earth so your welcome I guess.
And more than a few lives were destroyed, like my friends. Your good ol christians snuffed out his soul.
But yeah. Keep downplaying it. Dig your hole ever deeper.
Keep in mind Shasarak is well known for posting ironically. I have fell for it too. He's not saying that in an earnest way.
TLDR You're being trolled.
I have a better response for anyone that would do such an abjectly hateful thing as what he just did. To mock someone for being tortured?
Welcome to the ignore list. You make Barker look like a saint.
Ignore the people who write pro-Nazi books and edit Holocaust denial journals, the real Nazis are people who make fun of things on the internet!
The real Nazis were the enemies we made along the way.
Quote from: Pat on April 07, 2022, 10:19:38 AM
Quote from: Omega on April 06, 2022, 11:14:28 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on April 06, 2022, 01:01:38 PM
Quote from: Omega on April 05, 2022, 10:24:09 PM
Quote from: Shasarak on April 05, 2022, 08:45:07 PM
The Stanic Panic definitely happened and many innocent RPG books were burned and on the other hand the good old Christians did manage to prevent Satan from creating Hell on Earth so your welcome I guess.
And more than a few lives were destroyed, like my friends. Your good ol christians snuffed out his soul.
But yeah. Keep downplaying it. Dig your hole ever deeper.
Keep in mind Shasarak is well known for posting ironically. I have fell for it too. He's not saying that in an earnest way.
TLDR You're being trolled.
I have a better response for anyone that would do such an abjectly hateful thing as what he just did. To mock someone for being tortured?
Welcome to the ignore list. You make Barker look like a saint.
Ignore the people who write pro-Nazi books and edit Holocaust denial journals, the real Nazis are people who make fun of things on the internet!
Nice try. But he made fun of people being tortured in real life. Not the internet.
Keep struggling.
I imagine a lot of possible Christians walked away from the Church because they saw preacher preaching against strawmen and wondered what else does this Preacher yell about that they are completely ignorant about? Hopefully the Woke Inquisition will have a similar effect of inoculating people against the control freaks.
Quote from: Omega on April 07, 2022, 09:00:34 PM
Nice try. But he made fun of people being tortured in real life. Not the internet.
Keep struggling.
Snuffed out his soul?
If you are going to make up something then at least try to be plausible.
Quote from: Shasarak on April 07, 2022, 10:20:07 PM
Quote from: Omega on April 07, 2022, 09:00:34 PM
Nice try. But he made fun of people being tortured in real life. Not the internet.
Keep struggling.
Snuffed out his soul?
If you are going to make up something then at least try to be plausible.
Kids, this is why we don't do drugs...
Quote from: Shasarak on April 07, 2022, 10:20:07 PM
Quote from: Omega on April 07, 2022, 09:00:34 PM
Nice try. But he made fun of people being tortured in real life. Not the internet.
Keep struggling.
Snuffed out his soul?
If you are going to make up something then at least try to be plausible.
Greetings!
"Snuffed out his soul!" *Laughing* That just made me laugh it's so melodramatic. Geesus.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK