TL;DR: Erik from Karen's Tavern was bragging about getting some adventure you've never heard of taken down because he complained that its description contained the phrase "All Cops Are Bastards"... and that's too political and doesn't have anything to do with the product.
Here's my blog post that links back to Karen's original blog post (he closed comments this morning after putting his foot in it): https://vengersatanis.blogspot.com/2020/08/karen-tenkar-gets-offended.html
Discuss!
VS
p.s. Oops, I meant the thread title to say Erik "Karen" Tenkar. Oh well.
Oh fuck...
$100 internet bucks says DTRPG jumped on this so hard for exactly ONE reason...They just set the precedent for removal of ANYTHING they might view as 'political'
...and they can point this out and say they did it to an SJW-oriented/leftist product, so they obviously are able be fair about it...
Tenkar, if you are reading this...I hope that someone beats you into a fucking coma with a tire iron, you worthless, ignorant piece of shit...
"ACAB" is a "white skinhead motto"? WTF.
Censorship bad, Tenkar. Censorship is bad, OBS.
Isn't Tenkar a retired cop? Doesn't really reflect well on the profession when you're going out of your way to suppress people's rights to publish garbage...
Agreed, censorship is BAD, always.
Quote from: Brad;1144862Isn't Tenkar a retired cop? Doesn't really reflect well on the profession when you're going out of your way to suppress people's rights to publish garbage...
I guess he proved ALL Cops really are Bastards. So there's a silver lining, I suppose.
Quote from: Brad;1144862Isn't Tenkar a retired cop? Doesn't really reflect well on the profession when you're going out of your way to suppress people's rights to publish garbage...
Oh that would be rich.
So instead of using his well known blog to call attention to the thing and actually do some protesting type of stuff, he runs to the nanny state cause his fee-fees got hurt...and then he probably wonders why people don't respect cops.
I thought OSR-types were thick-skinned enough to deal with a nobody doing a little name-calling....
God, I fucking despise cancel-culture idiots.
Quote from: moonsweeper;1144877I thought OSR-types were thick-skinned enough to deal with a nobody doing a little name-calling....
Tenkar is definitely very thin skinned. Actual OSR content creators generally seem made of sterner stuff - Pundit and Venger, for instance.
I'm a little conflicted on this one. While I'm not for censorship, people on the left certainly haven't hesitated to deplatform anything they can with something they perceive to be a conservative political message.
I guess here on theRPGsite; any form of censorship, is viewed as being akin to releasing a loud fart during a church service?
Quote from: Razor 007;1144900I guess here on theRPGsite; any form of censorship, is viewed as being akin to releasing a loud fart during a church service?
Ummm, censorship should be considered akin to shooting everyone in the church because ONE person released a loud fart. That is not specific to theRPGsite. :-P
Venger - I also don't want to see products with "Hail Cthulhu" taken down, but I would want to see a bumper sticker...
I'm all for blasting rioters into hamburger, but speech is NOT violence. Violence is violence.
ACAB is dumb commie noise, but it's also free speech.
If we want free speech for ourselves, then we must defend the free speech of others.
(though its kinda hysterical when these AntiFart white kids have been filmed screaming racist idiocy at black cops.)
Tenkar the Karen should be ashamed of himself, and OBS needs to be replaced.
What a tremendous idea. This will in no way set an easily citeable precedent which can be used to run roughshod over works and creators targeted by the mob. And it surely won't be one steps to right, and nine to the left.
I'm going to write to Drivrthru to complain about this... I'm not expecting them to do anything tho'.
EDIT: Sent it.
Quote from: S'mon;1144883Tenkar is definitely very thin skinned. Actual OSR content creators generally seem made of sterner stuff - Pundit and Venger, for instance.
I certainly hope we are. I may bitch about a lot of stuff, but wouldn't try to get someone's creative effort removed because I disagreed with their personal views or was butt-hurt from name-calling.
VS
Quote from: trechriron;1144911Venger - I also don't want to see products with "Hail Cthulhu" taken down, but I would want to see a bumper sticker...
I shall try to accommodate you, hoss.
VS
In the age of single mothers bastard loses any semblance of insult.
Quote from: Razor 007;1144900I guess here on theRPGsite; any form of censorship, is viewed as being akin to releasing a loud fart during a church service?
Yeah, but even more so because drivethrough is pretty much a monopoly. If SJG didn't want to sell a third party product on Warehouse 23 for reasons, you'd hear some bitching about it but it wouldn't be terribly alarmist. Many companies have competing web stores.
But drivethrough is pretty much the main driver of RPG PDF sales. If it wasn't, SJG wouldn't have caved into selling GURPs products there and giving OBS a cut of sales when they already have their own store.
The message is, of course, woke bullshit but echoing the others here that getting it taken down was moronic.
Although I am surprised DTRPG did considering the line in question.
Quote from: Snark Knight;1145098The message is, of course, woke bullshit but echoing the others here that getting it taken down was moronic.
Although I am surprised DTRPG did considering the line in question.
Maybe because Tenkar is their #1 shill?
Quote from: moonsweeper;1144856$100 internet bucks says DTRPG jumped on this so hard for exactly ONE reason...They just set the precedent for removal of ANYTHING they might view as 'political'
...and they can point this out and say they did it to an SJW-oriented/leftist product, so they obviously are able be fair about it...
Calling this precedent would be difficult, because DTRPG has
already done this. They've been doing it since at least 2014 when they took down a card game (https://www.godsmonsters.com/News/gamergate-spreads-tabletop-gaming/) making fun of the GamerGate karens.
Not saying I agree with them taking down this one, I don't. But this is nothing new for them.
Quote from: VengerSatanis;1145099Maybe because Tenkar is their #1 shill?
I suspect we need to get rid of Tenkar before he gets rid of us.
Who the fuck is this Tenkar dude and why should I care? I know he writes some shitty blog I never read. What else does he do?
Quote from: capvideo;1145127Calling this precedent would be difficult, because DTRPG has already done this. They've been doing it since at least 2014 when they took down a card game (https://www.godsmonsters.com/News/gamergate-spreads-tabletop-gaming/) making fun of the GamerGate karens.
Not saying I agree with them taking down this one, I don't. But this is nothing new for them.
Technically true...but the push was not as widespread as it is now. With Tenkar's name on it, it will be more even more prevalent. It will be the example they use from here on out...because there is no 'taint' like with GamerGate.
Quote from: Morblot;1145131Who the fuck is this Tenkar dude and why should I care? I know he writes some shitty blog I never read. What else does he do?
Isn't Tenkar one of the owners of Frog God Games?
I don't know Tenkar anymore than you guys do, but did see some post where he complained with reason in the MeWe D&D group few weeks ago. I don't know if this is related, but someone stole one of his artworks and modded it without giving any credit in some publishing. I had ideas fucking stolen before so that's why I'm secretive about my core system and other creative thoughts as well. Maybe it's fallout from that.
I don't agree with Tenkar's complaint on this one, but in general I like Tenkar and I think he serves an important role for the indie RPG community in reporting news others won't report.
Quote from: Slipshot762;1145096In the age of single mothers bastard loses any semblance of insult.
And they make the best swords.
Quote from: FelixGamingX1;1145155I don't know Tenkar anymore than you guys do, but did see some post where he complained with reason in the MeWe D&D group few weeks ago. I don't know if this is related, but someone stole one of his artworks and modded it without giving any credit in some publishing. I had ideas fucking stolen before so that's why I'm secretive about my core system and other creative thoughts as well. Maybe it's fallout from that.
Ohhhh you want paranoia?
Here. Let me "help" you.
Many a year back I had a playtester steal one of my playtest race designs and sell art prints of it as his own creation. He still plays the victim painting me the one making false claim. joy.
Years before that theres a popular board game you may or may not have heard of. Supremacy. That was stolen during playtest and sold to a publisher. The original designer never saw a dime.
Over on BGG theres designers who tell people that is "ok for playtesters to steal a design because game designs arent protected.".
No. Im not making any of this up and there is so much more.
Problem is. You need playtesters to make sure your design isnt broke. You need eyes on your design in case something like the above
or worse does happen.
IP theft is real and happens often. I've heard plenty stories about playtesters stealing designs. Sometimes not even bothering to reskin the game. In our game design meetup, there's been lots of horror stories shared. And just like Omega said, you're in a bind because you MUST playtest your game, and you need playtesters outside of your own circle. And there's no way to bind them legally.
From what I hear, Monopoly was stolen from the original designer so perhaps IP theft is just a tradition in board games?
Quote from: Morblot;1145131Who the fuck is this Tenkar dude and why should I care? I know he writes some shitty blog I never read. What else does he do?
Tenkar's Tavern is today what Grognardia was a decade ago. It's probably the biggest hub of OSR "activity" in the blog-o-sphere. Besides his blog, he has a podcast (surprise, surprise) and works closely with Frog God Games and a couple other major OSR publishers. Personally, he and I were on good terms for awhile... until he denounced me for being za'akier.
VS
Quote from: capvideo;1145127Calling this precedent would be difficult, because DTRPG has already done this. They've been doing it since at least 2014 when they took down a card game (https://www.godsmonsters.com/News/gamergate-spreads-tabletop-gaming/) making fun of the GamerGate karens.
Not saying I agree with them taking down this one, I don't. But this is nothing new for them.
Difference here is that this is the first time that I'm aware of that they've taken something down promoting ideas associated with "left-wing" politics. If I recall correctly that card game was made by people on the GamerGate side (I think Grim Jim was one of the people involved; don't recall). Other times they've taken stuff down has been for being non-woke. This is the first I've heard they've taken a "woke" game down, hence, a "precedence" has been established. Now ANY type of game can go down.
Quote from: VengerSatanis;1145231Tenkar's Tavern is today what Grognardia was a decade ago. It's probably the biggest hub of OSR "activity" in the blog-o-sphere. Besides his blog, he has a podcast (surprise, surprise) and works closely with Frog God Games and a couple other major OSR publishers. Personally, he and I were on good terms for awhile... until he denounced me for being za'akier.
VS
That's an insult to James M and Grognardia!!! :D.
I never understood why Tenkar had any following whatsoever on his website- His BLOG is borderline useless, on a rare occasion he will have something newsworthy (Like Gail) I recently tried listening to his Podcasts... and lets just say CHA was his dump stat. Nothing personal against the man, I just don't understand the allure.
Quote from: Omega;1145199Ohhhh you want paranoia?
Here. Let me "help" you.
Many a year back I had a playtester steal one of my playtest race designs and sell art prints of it as his own creation. He still plays the victim painting me the one making false claim. joy.
Years before that theres a popular board game you may or may not have heard of. Supremacy. That was stolen during playtest and sold to a publisher. The original designer never saw a dime.
Over on BGG theres designers who tell people that is "ok for playtesters to steal a design because game designs arent protected.".
No. Im not making any of this up and there is so much more.
Problem is. You need playtesters to make sure your design isnt broke. You need eyes on your design in case something like the above or worse does happen.
Wow! Yeah man BGG in general is just garbage. Had to get in contact with their host because people were uploading spoilers and engaging in defamatory ways about me and my games without any sort of proof to back their shit up. Mods refused to take images down upon request, till I resorted to more extreme measures. You really need to monitor their site from time to time if you're a publisher. I think it's a fucking joke 9/10 users have game designer badges and nothing to show.
Couldn't an NDA be used for something like that? With an agreement that the person(s) could be held liable for a similar design for Xyrs? (Much like people who are barred from working in a certain profession for Xyrs.) Also, if they provide proper feedback they (for example) would receive a free copy when it hits? I'm not a lawyer, so any feedback from knowledgeable people would be enlightening.
Quote from: cenmarik;1145251Couldn't an NDA be used for something like that? With an agreement that the person(s) could be held liable for a similar design for Xyrs? (Much like people who are barred from working in a certain profession for Xyrs.) Also, if they provide proper feedback they (for example) would receive a free copy when it hits? I'm not a lawyer, so any feedback from knowledgeable people would be enlightening.
EULA on everything you create! The text alone is good deterrent and if people get wise you can just hire representation to do a desist order or take it to litigation in most extreme cases. The problem is we shouldn't have to do it because the point is to game and have a good time but there are idiots out there that always cross the boundaries. On the 3D game I'm creating the stakes are way higher so there's already one huge EULA coming along with it. None of that decompiling or reverse engineering nonsense unless granted written permission by me. Fortunately for 99.9% of customers all you need to do is buy and play like any other product.
NDAs are important. I have friends agree to the "FNDA" on a Discord I control to get access to my designs. F = friends, family, foes, and fiends!! Always NDA.
I have signed and agreed to many FNDAs over the years. It doesn't offend me at all. Creators should protect their shit. It's important.
NDAs aren't worth the paper they're printed on (or the pixels) UNLESS you have the money to spend on legal muscle.
And even then, you can easily dump loads of money on lawsuit and win little to nothing back.
In our local playtest design group, we have private teams of people trusted by designers and then public playtests when the game is ready to go to press. Several published designers shrug off the IP theft issue because the amount of effort protecting designs isn't worth the end result. They've told me horror stories about the Chinese market where you can find barely reskinned versions of many successful Western games and the designers never see a dime. Even worse, a couple designers say that their own printers in China are cranking out extra copies and selling them on Amazon in the USA. They proved the issue by showing how Amazon had brand new copies being sold by 3rd party sellers, but the designer was selling the game directly so nobody should have any new copies except the designer.
Quote from: VengerSatanis;1145231until he denounced me for being za'akier.
How dare he say that!!!
That's an insult to za'akiers!!! :D
Quote from: moonsweeper;1144856Oh fuck...
$100 internet bucks says DTRPG jumped on this so hard for exactly ONE reason...They just set the precedent for removal of ANYTHING they might view as 'political'
...and they can point this out and say they did it to an SJW-oriented/leftist product, so they obviously are able be fair about it...
I'll take that bet. Sure, they censored a leftist, but it's clear that they didn't know that. If they knew that ACAB was a phrase invented and used by Antifa, this product would have been their Pick of the Week.
Quote from: FelixGamingX1;1145248I think it's a fucking joke 9/10 users have game designer badges and nothing to show.
Not that many. But it feels so high because BGG allows way too often WIPs and PNPs up as real games, even vaporware. For a time the cracked down on this after a few contests required your WIP to have a game page. But its started up again in the last year or so. Tons of dead entries of games that essentially dont exist. Or games that were taken down by designers in WIP stage as they got greedy at a hint of publishing. Lots of that going on. Theres opposition. But it tends to go overboard. BGG is a mess on so many levels. Moreso if you have the misfortune to have seen whats going on covertly over there.
Its alot like RPGnet. You can putter around for years and never see anything amiss. Or BOOM ram right into it and regret ever visiting.
Quote from: Fergurg;1145323If they knew that ACAB was a phrase invented and used by Antifa...
Nah, they just stole it. ACAB originated in prison and skinhead culture.
Quote from: Fergurg;1145323I'll take that bet. Sure, they censored a leftist, but it's clear that they didn't know that. If they knew that ACAB was a phrase invented and used by Antifa, this product would have been their Pick of the Week.
Oh I am sure they are quite aware of it...but it is just a nobody on that side which can be sacrificed for the "greater good."
As I was saying.
I wrote to DT complaining over this 'ban'. I basically heard nothing back, so I've sent them another mail. I'll keep you chaps informed should I get a response.
I agree 100% with Venger.
I don't like this "ACAB" idiocy, but censorship is a slippery slope.
Quote from: Morblot;1145131Who the fuck is this Tenkar dude and why should I care? I know he writes some shitty blog I never read. What else does he do?
He spams the fuck out of social media with links to his blog.
He has a podcast where he talks like a 90 year old man with raspy lifelong smoker voice with his mouth full of food.
He's sort of a news breaker of things happening in the tabletop RPG world.
Tenkar isn't a bad dude. But this was a very bad take. It's playing the Totaltiarians' game, justifying their later censoring of anyone.