I don't know, if includes some sort of interesting setting - a second civil war starting over the issue or something, with some alternate future history thrown in - maybe, maybe I could see some hypothetical gamer somwhere getting some milage out of it.  But I don't see that happening in a 5-page pdf where one of the advanced classes is (of all things) abortion provider.  I can't even imagine what sorts of class abilities justify its existence.  Favored Enemy: Fetii? A touch attack that causes miscarriages?  My money's on the product being incredibly lame.

On an unrelated note, I'm surprised no one's made the obvious joke about the name being an oxymoron.

Quote from: BrantaiBut I don't see that happening in a 5-page pdf...

The PDF is 24 pages long.

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckThe PDF is 24 pages long.

My bad.  I thought someone upthread had mentioned it being 5 pages and just assumed they were correct.  I'm still taking the same position, however.

Eh... the d20 Modern stuff Louis releases has a lot of bizarre classes in them that aren't meant for serious games.

A lot of them are fun as heck though and work mechanically. I've had players take the Pimp class and the Stunt Double class.

This product is more or less in the same vein as Louis' "Pimp Daddy" product, just struck more of a nerve with people because OMFG ABORTION.

Ah well, standing up to MacLennon over this has, apparently, gotten me a permaban from RPGnet. If it hadn't become an almost total irrelevence to me I'd be upset on more than principle. I'm guessing around here it puts me in pretty good company.

*chuckle*

Quote from: GRIMAh well, standing up to MacLennon over this has, apparently, gotten me a permaban from RPGnet.

Can't say you chose your cause well, though.

!i!

Quote from: GRIMAh well, standing up to MacLennon over this has, apparently, gotten me a permaban from RPGnet. If it hadn't become an almost total irrelevence to me I'd be upset on more than principle. I'm guessing around here it puts me in pretty good company.

*chuckle*

Did he insult you and call you names while he did it, thereby violating the rules he is supposedly upholding? Was he reeeeally nasty about it? If so, welcome to the club. If not, welcome anyway.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaCan't say you chose your cause well, though.

!i!

I had to happen eventually, I'd almost given up looking there or posting there anyway because the atmosphere is so non-condusive to debate. Strung out on painkillers and antibiotics my cooler head didn't prevail, but what the hell.

Twats.

I think the cause overall is one worth fighting for, that is - why shouldn't games explore controversial subjects and why should people get away with slamming them and acting like  dicks sight-unseen? So I'm happy with it, even if the end product doesn't turn out to be good.

Quote from: WerekoalaDid he insult you and call you names while he did it, thereby violating the rules he is supposedly upholding?

Technically, it was Curt, and, yeah, he was kind of a dick about it.  As usual, the knife has to be turned, when a simple "Good bye" would suffice.

!i!

Quote from: RPGObjects_chuckIn short, that makes a lot of the things being said about Louis and this product inaccurate to the best of my knowledge.

No, it doesn't. Since one has to be desperate and incompetent to associate with LPJ, we can still safely conclude this product will be crap.

In the end, this still looks like a useless, dumb product and one of the crappiest company I've ever witnessed in 25 years of gaming still helps releasing it.

DW have no standards whatsoever. LPJ frequently calls for freelancers and will hire just about anybody that has a pulse and is willing to work dirt cheap. In fact, Louis once shared on RPG.net that the trick is to hire people as cheap as possible.

This guy never had any concern regarding quality. Which is understandable, as he couldn't write well to save his own skin. His MO is to release a ton of garbage and target a garbage customer base.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaTechnically, it was Curt, and, yeah, he was kind of a dick about it.  As usual, the knife has to be turned, when a simple "Good bye" would suffice.

!i!

*edit*  Well whadda ya know, I forgot I have a new IP.. (evil chuckle).

Yeah, the florid prose of Mr. Curt was probably uncalled for. I particularly like the prefunctory boilerplate about where to write to protest the ban, followed with the warm, inviting language indicating that he'd have a better chance snowboarding in Hell. Even if someone DID manage to get reinstated - would they want to, when the mods are clearly antagonistic to them?

Still, I know McLennan had to be part of it somehow - he just can NOT refrain from lording his superiority over folks in the most Nox-ious way possible, if you catch my drift. Sometimes worse than others. I think it must be after he gets back from the pubs.

So now you get permabanned at rpg.net for advocating someone or something the mods don't like. What a bunch of immature, intolerant, arrogant assholes.

Anyway, as to the whole "Abortion rpg" thing, hell why shouldn't gamers get involved with real social matters and even do them as game material? Gamers are often portrayed, inaccurately, as being out of touch with reality, but in truth I'd say most gamersa hae a better graps of things than joe sixpack who sits around drinking beer and studiously avoiding any news that isn't presented in soundbyte format.

Quote from: GRIMI think the cause overall is one worth fighting for, that is - why shouldn't games explore controversial subjects and why should people get away with slamming them and acting like  dicks sight-unseen?

"the cause"? What the fuck? Strenuous defence of lame games?

Games should not explore controversial subjects just for the sake of being controversial. It's like yelling out "fuck" in a church, just for the sake of being controversial. That's lame and stupid. Now if you smash your knee on a pew, or if you just found out the priest leading the service fucked your just-turned-18 daughter, then yelling out "fuck!" is quite appropriate.

This is just being controversial for the sake of being controversial. It's trying too damn hard, like a goth kid cutting herself in class in front of everyone. It's sad and pathetic.

We can only criticise things we've seen, eh? So, I have this film of your mother taking a giant shit, just as she grunts it out, we zoom in to show close-ups of her distended anus and the peanuts in her poo. You don't want to see it? But how do you KNOW it doesn't have artistic merit? How can you possibly criticise something you've never examined in close and thoughtful detail?

Some things are stupid and pathetic enough that we don't need to study them in detail.

Quote from: GRIMSo I'm happy with it, even if the end product doesn't turn out to be good.

So you're happy to go defending a crappy product? I guess this is why you're not an editor at a publishing company, eh?

So given the response here and at rpgnet, are we as gamers not allowed to address mature and sensitive issues?  are we restricted solely to games of fantasy and the unreal?

It seems to me that people are happier to fling monkey shit than enter a rational adult debate.  All I've seen from those anti this product boils down to.

"OMFG this game is lame because I don't agree such a sourcebook should be written"

And those who defend the right of companies to address and explore mature issues get.

"OMFG you are so lame because you don't hold the same views as me".

At least we know the Mods at RPGnet are mainly tossers, what's your excuse?

Quote from: JimBobOzSo you're happy to go defending a crappy product? I guess this is why you're not an editor at a publishing company, eh?

I was happy to defend the product because they were judging it sight unseen and leaping to conclusions, talking smack based on ignorance.

I just bought it (the dollar's worth jack anyway) to show some support and left my review comment...

I thought it handled it pretty well all things considered.

*************
Comment:

There's, obviously, a lot of controversy surrounding this product which just goes to show how much of a hot-button issue it is. There's been a lot of criticism and hoo-hah on the net over the product without ever having seen it. This, I think, says everything about it.

d20 Modern isn't my system of choice and I don't think it particularly suited to games that delve into these sorts of issues but, nonetheless, it is extremely well written and handled sensitively.

I should like to see more products from this writer on other political and protest issues, or perhaps a larger more complete product handling the tactics and culture of protest as a whole. I have a feeling they'd do well writing up anti-capitalist and ecoterrorist groups, anarchist black-blocs and others.

Overall I rate the product a 4, but I'm giving it a 5 for having balls and for pleasantly surprising me in terms of quality.


LIKED: The product is created from a pro-choice stance but, coming from the UK where this controversy is practically unknown, that tends to agree with my viewpoint. Even so I think the product is quite fair and balanced and has good utility.

As I said, I'm from the UK so a lot of this is alien to me outside of second hand news reports. Getting a summary of the US history of what has gone on around this and the lengths people go to to protest either way, especially from a gamer's perspective was extremely useful.

Even the parts I was dubious about, such as the prestige class, have been handled maturely and fairly and I'm pleasantly surprised. There's a lot in here that can be used more widely in street/protest and medical based games that have nothing to do with abortion.

DISLIKED: The product's second half is quite unfocussed. This does increase the material's utility beyond the narrow focus of the abortion issue but also waters down the product a little. The artwork is spartan while they layout is good, but it is also a little too obviously influenced by GTA.

QUALITY: Very Good

VALUE: Satisfied

RATING:  5 of 5 Stars!  [5 of 5 Stars!]