Quote from: Grognard GM on February 13, 2024, 08:14:09 PM
The first thing I do with any new player that uses third person is to correct them so they say "I do this." Problem solved in a session.

This is the way!

Cipher, pretend elf role playing is neither therapy nor training, as you of all people should know based on your recent experiences with people trying to use the game to push you into their zone.  So your definitional appeal to authority is moot.

While I guess not as common as it once was, back in the day it was not unusual for one person to have more than one character, or character plus a couple of henchmen that they also ran.  Usually you would be your main character in the latter case, but still say what your henchman do.

The stock I print on is not the stock I cook a broth from, nor is it the stock I shoulder when shooting. Specific fields or applications will demand specific definitions of otherwise common terms.

The best concept or defenition(s) of roleplaying, as it pertains to roleplaying games that I have found come TheAngryGM.

Quote from: TheAngryGM: https://theangrygm.com/tao-of-dice/
Roleplaying means making choices based on an assumed role and an imaginary situation. Roleplaying is making the choices you would make if you really were Ardrick the fighter and your hometown really was under attack by savagely evil orcs.

Quote from: TheAngryGM: https://theangrygm.com/angry-office-hours-2/
Roleplaying is about projecting yourself into a role. It's imagining yourself as someone else and trying to act as that person or thing. Part of every choice is reflecting the personality, motivations, hopes, and fears of your in-game persona.

Quote from: TheAngryGM: https://theangrygm.com/ask-angry-november-2023-mailbag/
Freeform roleplaying isn't gaming.

Thus, an actor's award winning performance reading a script is not roleplaying, and a roleplaying game is more than a game with roleplaying.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on February 13, 2024, 10:03:02 PM
Cipher, pretend elf role playing is neither therapy nor training, as you of all people should know based on your recent experiences with people trying to use the game to push you into their zone.  So your definitional appeal to authority is moot.

I find this comment very strange. I am not sure why would you bring that topic up since this has nothing to do with it and I am not calling people names. I even agreed that "main character syndrome" and "3rd person narration" were two different and unrelated things when it was pointed out to me. So I had that experience and created a thread about it and that means I can no longer have an opinion?

Indeed, its not therapy. This is why I primarily used the first roleplaying experiences most people had. Cops and robbers in the playground. Twice I talked about it. Since the dictionary definition that I used in my second post about this topic included the psychological usage of the term, then I included.

Just to make it clear that, in every example of the activity, roleplaying is done in 1st person. Only in TTRPGs is it referred to in the same manner as 3rd person narration.

This has nothing to do with trigger warnings. I am not making judgements here. I am not saying people are playing it wrong or that they are isms or bigots or other expletives if they play this way. I specifically said that I am not going to police other groups. People can play however they want. I also specifically said that some groups enjoy just throwing dice, cracking jokes all the time and narrating. They are having their own fun. I wouldn't enjoy a goofy game like the way a lot people play D&D where its almost like a boardgame, where players are more focused on the numbers and dice, narrate all their actions, instead of roleplaying their actions and crack jokes and meme all the time.

I am not sure why you claim that I tried to appeal to authority here. I think you are confused on what that means.

Appeal to authority is:

"I've been roleplaying since the hobby started. I was at the table Gygax ran when he invented the hobby. Therefore, I know what roleplay is and you don't".

I never said anything of the sort. I am, however, using the dictionary definition of the word and its implementation. In every example of what "roleplaying" means, be it academic or pragmatic, it is always in 1st person. Only in TTRPGs is 3rd person narration considered roleplaying. And I am not the only one that thinks this, so not even in TTRPGs is 3rd person narration universally accepted as the same as roleplaying, as you can see on comments on this very thread.

I am sure people that play this way are having fun. I am happy for them. I don't really enjoy that. I am not militant either. It's OK to talk out of character every now and then. Crack a joke, take a break to go to the bathroom or refill your drink or whatever. But, if someone narrates their character actions all the time, then they are narrating and they are not roleplaying.

"pretend elf role playing"

Exactly. Pretend to be the elf. When children play "make believe" or "pretend" they say: "I am Link, the elf! and I will defeat Ganon and save Zelda!". They don't say: "Link will save Zelda and goes over to Ganon and swings the Master Sword at him!". That type of example usually goes when the kid is alone and playing with toys. So the toy will save Zelda, not 'him'.

You can do whatever you want. In the first example, the child is roleplaying as Link. See themselves as Link and act and talk like they believe Link would. They understand and always know they are not Link. In the second example, the child is narrating what Link does. If people enjoy using 3rd person narration instead of 1st person roleplaying, I am not sure they would be upset. But, of course, this is the internet and people are used to feel judged or chastised when someone disagrees. I am not doing that. Play whichever way you want. But, let us be clear here.

Roleplaying game sessions will involve narration at different points. Specially from the GM. Stuff like setting a scene requires narration. I am just calling a spade a spade. Roleplaying is not the same as Narration.

I prefer to roleplay and prefer groups were the players roleplay. It has nothing to do with LARPing, method acting, doing voices or accents.

I'll have to leave some disclaimers here since, it appears that I have to:

*I am not hating on playing toys or minis. Wargames and boardgames are super cool. I don't have a problem using minis and mats with roleplaying games.

*I am not hating on people narrating. I do have a problem with the "main character syndrome" but I agreed that I was wrong and those are two different unrelated situations that happened at the same time in my example.

Quote from: JeremyR on February 13, 2024, 10:08:15 PM
While I guess not as common as it once was, back in the day it was not unusual for one person to have more than one character, or character plus a couple of henchmen that they also ran.  Usually you would be your main character in the latter case, but still say what your henchman do.

This is a great example of moments the roleplaying session requires narration. I would roleplay as my character and narrate what my henchmen say.

I must admit, I never actually have played in games like that. Back in the AD&D2e games where the Fighter attracted henchmen, the DM would roleplay as them, but they would follow my directions and I would roll their dice for anything that called for it.

However, I think narrating their actions and roleplaying my character would work perfectly fine, as well.

Quote from: Cipher on February 13, 2024, 09:33:25 PM
The literal dictionary definition of roleplaying is:

"Act out or perform the part of a person or character, for example as a technique in training or psychotherapy."

Oh, come on man...

Me: Types "define roleplaying" into search engine

Computer: <beep, boop, beep, blurp...>

Quote
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
role play
/ˈrōl ˌplā/
noun
noun: roleplay
another term for role playing.
verb
verb: roleplay
1.
act out or perform the part of a person or character, for example as a technique in training or psychotherapy.
"study participants role-played as applicants for community college"
2.
participate in a role-playing game.
"one to six players can role-play as any of over 100 characters"

If you're gonna quote the dictionary, then quote the dictionary.

Anyway, as you can see from this here dictionary right here, we are all correct. We all win!



As an aside, where I see this strict, exclusive definition of roleplay being uniformly accepted is in video games. People will spin up "RP" servers where first-person role playing is a major component, if not the main goal. However, in computer games, third person narration is not required, and probably not even welcome, because the screen does all the work.

Quote from: RPGer678 on February 13, 2024, 05:56:09 PM
Many of the video's commenters said that the people who play at the LGS are there because they don't get invited into local groups. Is that anyone's experience? The LGS here is friendly to MTG players and doesn't want RPGs taking table space away from the MTG crowd so I wouldn't know.

Not my experience either. Even at cons I never had any problems. Others I have heard have. But I kept dodging the bullet. But that was back in the 90s so odds are things have changed a little since. But I've been to our local game store and never seen any problems.

Quote from: Jam The MF on February 12, 2024, 04:02:48 PM
I just watched his video.  Perhaps try to filter out some of that nonsense, by running a ruleset that is known for being hardcore.  If they sign up, and start the nonsense; tell them to role a perception check, followed by an initiative check, followed by the BBG showdown, in the very first session.  If they survive the encounter, monitor their behavior.  Every time they start going sideways, take them straight into a BBG encounter.  No mercy.  Let the dice decide. 

They should either change their ways, or remove themselves promptly.  Any who do change, might be worth your effort.  The rest, not so much.

I'm sorry, but your suggested solution just seems too passive-aggressive for me. If you have a problem player, you first take them aside and talk to them, then if they don't shape up you eject them from your game. The rest of your players, the good ones you want to keep around, will get up and walk if you cater to the one problem player (who is most likely pissing everyone else off at the table as well). You can be sympathetic towards a problem player, but as GM you also have a responsibility to the rest of the players at your table as well.

Quote from: jeff37923 on February 14, 2024, 01:15:04 AM

I'm sorry, but your suggested solution just seems too passive-aggressive for me.

I'm with jeff on this one. If you don't want someone at your table, don't bother trying to judo them into leaving themselves, just kick them. If you're running the game, it's your table, the players are guests.

If you really want to understand how to role play like a bunch of children, just watch these videos: https://youtu.be/2hRnnJtEUSg?si=cbQNL9YmKXcLXAsA&t=6351