I have news for Aaron Clarey, there was a lot of BO at game conventions in the 80s even if he chooses not to remember.

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on February 11, 2024, 04:03:09 AM
Buh-but you c-cannot c-call them mentally ill anymore!

Morally Challenged.

Quote from: Omega on February 12, 2024, 07:36:58 PM

Quote from: Kerstmanneke82 on February 11, 2024, 04:03:09 AM
Buh-but you c-cannot c-call them mentally ill anymore!

Morally Challenged.

Rainbow Warriors

Quote from: RPGPundit on February 12, 2024, 05:11:16 PM
Jesus fuck what was this bullshit?!
I thought I'd be hearing a Bill Rufo type or at least an Ackerman type, making an intelligent argument about society, and instead I got old garage grandpa complaining about playing in FLGS and being surprised that its mostly freaks at the FLGS. The video in no way matches the way you described it. There's no thinking complaints here, just personal griping.

It depends on where your FLGS is.  The schools have got the Hitler Youth program... I mean Gay Straight Alliance clubs going so there is only one boy wearing a dress at the hobby shop.  I've got a cop, a manager, a mechanic and a lab tech in my game, mostly moderate and one pinko.  It's tolerable, and I live in a purple area.

Yeah, the guy's video seems to be able to be summed up with "don't play with randos" and I already don't, so.  Only play with people you know.  That's hardly new, either.  Even before 5e filled up the place with critical role fans, there were plenty of people floating around who you would not want to play with.

Many of the video's commenters said that the people who play at the LGS are there because they don't get invited into local groups. Is that anyone's experience? The LGS here is friendly to MTG players and doesn't want RPGs taking table space away from the MTG crowd so I wouldn't know.

Quote from: Valatar on February 13, 2024, 04:35:57 PM
Yeah, the guy's video seems to be able to be summed up with "don't play with randos" and I already don't, so.  Only play with people you know.  That's hardly new, either.  Even before 5e filled up the place with critical role fans, there were plenty of people floating around who you would not want to play with.

Critical Role fans are the fucking worse.  You have guys come up with three pages of back story and they expect to be the main character.  I ten of those fuckers show up at the hobby shop, I kept 4 of them for session two when I told them the area will write their story, I'm not going to be customizing the adventure for each and every person.

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 13, 2024, 06:16:08 PM

Quote from: Valatar on February 13, 2024, 04:35:57 PM
Yeah, the guy's video seems to be able to be summed up with "don't play with randos" and I already don't, so.  Only play with people you know.  That's hardly new, either.  Even before 5e filled up the place with critical role fans, there were plenty of people floating around who you would not want to play with.

Critical Role fans are the fucking worse.  You have guys come up with three pages of back story and they expect to be the main character.  I ten of those fuckers show up at the hobby shop, I kept 4 of them for session two when I told them the area will write their story, I'm not going to be customizing the adventure for each and every person.

I've not experienced the three page backstory characters, but I've played with people online that have a terrible case of "main character syndrome". They have to speak all the time. Commenting on what other people are doing. Narrating every single thing they do, even when they are not with the other characters that are currently roleplaying their actions. They have to insert themselves into every situation. They get jealous if someone else deals the final blow in a Boss fight.

And, for some odd reason, the times that I've encountered they always refer to their character in third person. So, "Conan does this and does that. Conan smirks and laughs at the other heroes. While this is going on, Conan is just sharpening his sword."

It's terrible.  That's narrating not roleplaying. Perhaps that's why they feel like they can interject even when their character is not around, since they see this as a movie and not a roleplaying game.

Quote from: Cipher on February 13, 2024, 06:56:34 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 13, 2024, 06:16:08 PM

Quote from: Valatar on February 13, 2024, 04:35:57 PM
Yeah, the guy's video seems to be able to be summed up with "don't play with randos" and I already don't, so.  Only play with people you know.  That's hardly new, either.  Even before 5e filled up the place with critical role fans, there were plenty of people floating around who you would not want to play with.

Critical Role fans are the fucking worse.  You have guys come up with three pages of back story and they expect to be the main character.  I ten of those fuckers show up at the hobby shop, I kept 4 of them for session two when I told them the area will write their story, I'm not going to be customizing the adventure for each and every person.

I've not experienced the three page backstory characters, but I've played with people online that have a terrible case of "main character syndrome". They have to speak all the time. Commenting on what other people are doing. Narrating every single thing they do, even when they are not with the other characters that are currently roleplaying their actions. They have to insert themselves into every situation. They get jealous if someone else deals the final blow in a Boss fight.

And, for some odd reason, the times that I've encountered they always refer to their character in third person. So, "Conan does this and does that. Conan smirks and laughs at the other heroes. While this is going on, Conan is just sharpening his sword."

It's terrible.  That's narrating not roleplaying. Perhaps that's why they feel like they can interject even when their character is not around, since they see this as a movie and not a roleplaying game.

Those are two separate things. Third person narration is role playing. It's not acting. The other thing is main character syndrome and yeah it sucks.

Quote from: rytrasmi on February 13, 2024, 07:01:59 PM

Quote from: Cipher on February 13, 2024, 06:56:34 PM

Quote from: honeydipperdavid on February 13, 2024, 06:16:08 PM

Quote from: Valatar on February 13, 2024, 04:35:57 PM
Yeah, the guy's video seems to be able to be summed up with "don't play with randos" and I already don't, so.  Only play with people you know.  That's hardly new, either.  Even before 5e filled up the place with critical role fans, there were plenty of people floating around who you would not want to play with.

Critical Role fans are the fucking worse.  You have guys come up with three pages of back story and they expect to be the main character.  I ten of those fuckers show up at the hobby shop, I kept 4 of them for session two when I told them the area will write their story, I'm not going to be customizing the adventure for each and every person.

I've not experienced the three page backstory characters, but I've played with people online that have a terrible case of "main character syndrome". They have to speak all the time. Commenting on what other people are doing. Narrating every single thing they do, even when they are not with the other characters that are currently roleplaying their actions. They have to insert themselves into every situation. They get jealous if someone else deals the final blow in a Boss fight.

And, for some odd reason, the times that I've encountered they always refer to their character in third person. So, "Conan does this and does that. Conan smirks and laughs at the other heroes. While this is going on, Conan is just sharpening his sword."

It's terrible.  That's narrating not roleplaying. Perhaps that's why they feel like they can interject even when their character is not around, since they see this as a movie and not a roleplaying game.

Those are two separate things. Third person narration is role playing. It's not acting. The other thing is main character syndrome and yeah it sucks.

Third person narration puts a barrier between the Player and the character. It is considerably easy to not think as the character if this barrier is in place. By definition, roleplaying is pretending to be a particular character and act as that character would.

Kids in the playground don't do: "Batman does this and batman does that!" They say: "I am Batman! I am the night! You will not get away with this, Joker!".

Same with Cops and Robbers. You don't go "My cop shoots at the robber" you go "Bang! Bang!" and do a pistol with your fingers.

You don't have to method act, do a funny voice or weird accent but if you say: "Conan does" instead of "I do" then you are not really roleplaying. Now, I am not going to go into every single game and police how they roleplay. That's up to each game and each group. But, there is a difference.

If people just want to have fun with friends, throw some dice and have some beers and pretzels, then that's fine. But, that's a different game than a game where the Players want to roleplay and immerse themselves into the experience of getting into the mindset of a living entity in an imaginary world and seeing that world through their character's eyes.

Death is cheap if a character dies. Death is meaningful if you are about to die. Like with all games, adults and even children, understand the difference between the character dying and you dying. If you see yourself as the character you would take decisions to avoid death. It's the same reason why people with sparring gear are extremely violent when training medieval swordfighting. Because, they know nothing is going to happen. In a real life duel with sharp swords, people fought with caution. Specially in the medieval times, where even a cut could doom you due to infection.

But, I do agree that one thing is third person narration and another is main character syndrome. I do believe its easier to fall into that pitfall if you do this, since only the Narrator in a book would refer to characters in third person, and the narrator is omniscient. The same with a Director in a movie or TV Show, and thus the need to comment on everything, if your character is in another place.

In my experience, this almost never happens when people do an effort to get immersed. They stay quiet and pay attention when their character is not around, as they understand they, the Players, are audience at this particular point in time in the session, since their character is elsewhere and thus they are less likely to crack a joke or say anything.

I dunno man I've played with some pretty old grogs and I'm getting up there myself. Both styles are role playing in my book. Some do one or the other, some do both, some mix it up. I don't want to turn this into some epic internet argument, so peace out.

The first thing I do with any new player that uses third person is to correct them so they say "I do this." Problem solved in a session.

Quote from: Cipher on February 13, 2024, 07:18:58 PM
Third person narration puts a barrier between the Player and the character. It is considerably easy to not think as the character if this barrier is in place. By definition, roleplaying is pretending to be a particular character and act as that character would.

Role playing is making decisions for your character as if the character was a real thing in the imaginary world.  That's it.  How you communicate your decisions to the group is a matter of taste, game flow, excitement of the moment, and a host of other factors of varying importance.  You are confusing "immersion" as a synonym for "role playing".  It's true that most people who highly value immersion don't see any point in role playing that doesn't include it, but they are two distinct things.

First vs third person is a non issue. One can roleplay in third person and play act in first person with no roleplaying whatsoever. In a roleplaying game players declare character actions, the GM adjudicates the result and narrates the outcome. If players are narrating instead of declaring actions than you have yourself a storytelling by committee circle jerk instead of a roleplaying game.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on February 13, 2024, 08:55:34 PM

Quote from: Cipher on February 13, 2024, 07:18:58 PM
Third person narration puts a barrier between the Player and the character. It is considerably easy to not think as the character if this barrier is in place. By definition, roleplaying is pretending to be a particular character and act as that character would.

Role playing is making decisions for your character as if the character was a real thing in the imaginary world.  That's it.  How you communicate your decisions to the group is a matter of taste, game flow, excitement of the moment, and a host of other factors of varying importance.  You are confusing "immersion" as a synonym for "role playing".  It's true that most people who highly value immersion don't see any point in role playing that doesn't include it, but they are two distinct things.

The literal dictionary definition of roleplaying is:

"Act out or perform the part of a person or character, for example as a technique in training or psychotherapy."

When children roleplay in the playground as characters from the media they consume, they never speak in third person. Ever.  That was the first time we all roleplayed before playing a TTRPG.

This is also true in therapy. The reason why it has to be in first person in therapy, is because it is mainly used so the client can get an idea of the mindset of the person he is roleplaying as. A very common example is a couple. The therapist will ask them to roleplay as the other person. So, the man will speak as if he was his wife and the woman will speak as if she was her husband. If things go well, both of them realize how much they were communicating pass each other because they never stopped to think like the other and how their words are getting received.

Only when playing TTRPGs do people claim roleplaying can be done in third person. I am not saying you are playing the game wrong. You do whatever you want to do in your games. But, by definition, it is  not 'roleplaying'.

Also, in TTRPGs, you add a system with conflict resolution mechanics to avoid the "That shot hit you, robber!" and "No it didn't! I dodged it!". So, the dice adjudicate and inform the resolution. That is the 'G' part of TTRPG.