If you own shares in #Hasbro ( $HAS ) & you haven't heard about the huge mistake it's subsidiary Wizards of the Coast is about to make, check out this video. Their bungle will cost you money!
#dnd #onednd #opendnd #dnd5e #OGL
I wish you were right, but I have at least a dozen co-workers that play D&D (5e). None of them know about the OGL.
Meanwhile, to boost their stock, Hasbro just needs to go on and on about how the OGL1.1 lets them leverage Web 3 for profit and people will lick it up. Get your Drizzt and Elminster NFTs
Good video that basically sums up the history of D&D.
I'll be honest, it may not have been your idea, but having to leave off your statement about being the "Final Boss of Internet Shitlords" made the whole piece feel so much more professional. I say skip even referencing it and just saying you're "The RPG Pundit" going forward.
Maybe I should buy on the dip... cause once OneDnD releases and all goldfish-brained morons see the new shiny, their stock will pick up.
Quote from: Effete on January 11, 2023, 07:31:45 AM
Maybe I should buy on the dip... cause once OneDnD releases and all goldfish-brained morons see the new shiny, their stock will pick up.
Just wait until after their D&D movie bombs. Not because of the OneD&D backlash, but because of it's clearly MCU-lite structure in an era of MCU-fatigue and has the greatly overrated Chris Pine playing the exact same character he plays in every film he's in as the lead. Nothing is going to smash Habro's hopes of making D&D a lifestyle brand like their multi-hundred million dollar movie going down in flames.
Honestly, the best thing for RPGs at this point will be the death of Hasbro's lifestyle brand hopes. The movie falling well short of their goal (thus failing to move its tie in products) and the mass exodus of 3pp and cancellations of DDB subscriptions from D&D proper showing that, in fact, D&D was OVER-monetized (largely due to the pandemic) will do that. Without that prospect, Hasbro will lose interest in the ttrpg market entirely as too small to bother with... which should reduce the threat of lawsuits against non-OGL products closer to what Hasbro in full lifestyle brand mode would pursue as infringements.
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 11, 2023, 08:39:28 AM
Quote from: Effete on January 11, 2023, 07:31:45 AM
Maybe I should buy on the dip... cause once OneDnD releases and all goldfish-brained morons see the new shiny, their stock will pick up.
Just wait until after their D&D movie bombs. Not because of the OneD&D backlash, but because of it's clearly MCU-lite structure in an era of MCU-fatigue and has the greatly overrated Chris Pine playing the exact same character he plays in every film he's in as the lead. Nothing is going to smash Habro's hopes of making D&D a lifestyle brand like their multi-hundred million dollar movie going down in flames.
Despite my thoughts that the movie may actually be fun, I agree it is likely to bomb. The last couple MCU films fell far short of projections, and the shows were not well-received at all. If anyone is going to correlate the DnD film with the MCU, it will spell disaster. This recent OGL debacle will only expound any disinterest.
QuoteHonestly, the best thing for RPGs at this point will be the death of Hasbro's lifestyle brand hopes. The movie falling well short of their goal (thus failing to move its tie in products) and the mass exodus of 3pp and cancellations of DDB subscriptions from D&D proper showing that, in fact, D&D was OVER-monetized (largely due to the pandemic) will do that. Without that prospect, Hasbro will lose interest in the ttrpg market entirely as too small to bother with... which should reduce the threat of lawsuits against non-OGL products closer to what Hasbro in full lifestyle brand mode would pursue as infringements.
Yeah, I've shifted my position on this. A few days ago I was hoping Hasbro reverses and leaves the 1.0a untouched, but now I kinda just wanna watch them burn the house down around them. The mass exodus is a comforting thing; the hobby doesn't need DnD to survive. I just wish people would stop freaking out about the potential for lawsuits, backing away from using terms like "Strength" or "Hit Points." This is the time to challenge WotC on the usage of such terms, not relinquish them. Plenty of other games get by just fine using them. WotC may try to make an example of a few offenders (such as the obvious retroclones or even Kobold Press), but they won't after someone for using a generic gaming term. Especially if their hemorrhaging money.
Quote from: Effete on January 11, 2023, 09:31:44 AM
Yeah, I've shifted my position on this. A few days ago I was hoping Hasbro reverses and leaves the 1.0a untouched, but now I kinda just wanna watch them burn the house down around them. The mass exodus is a comforting thing; the hobby doesn't need DnD to survive. I just wish people would stop freaking out about the potential for lawsuits, backing away from using terms like "Strength" or "Hit Points." This is the time to challenge WotC on the usage of such terms, not relinquish them. Plenty of other games get by just fine using them. WotC may try to make an example of a few offenders (such as the obvious retroclones or even Kobold Press), but they won't after someone for using a generic gaming term. Especially if their hemorrhaging money.
Also, ironically, Strength is the safest term to use as TSR already tried suing over it and failed. Thus, there is settled case law that Strength isn't copyrightable.
I'd further argue that it's not worth worrying about terms that are self-evident. I call my condition that reduces your speed by half "slowed" because that is an obvious term for having your speed reduced. I opted for "halted" instead of D&D's immobilized though because halted is also a self-evident term for having your movement reduced to zero while in general use the word immobilized is akin to paralyzed and thus not really a self-evident term.
The idea though in my case is to establish a pattern in my work. If I always use self-evident terms for things then even if those things happen to overlap with some D&D terms it doesn't establish anything other than D&D also used a self-evident term.
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 11, 2023, 10:14:14 AM
I'd further argue that it's not worth worrying about terms that are self-evident. I call my condition that reduces your speed by half "slowed" because that is an obvious term for having your speed reduced. I opted for "halted" instead of D&D's immobilized though because halted is also a self-evident term for having your movement reduced to zero while in general use the word immobilized is akin to paralyzed and thus not really a self-evident term.
The idea though in my case is to establish a pattern in my work. If I always use self-evident terms for things then even if those things happen to overlap with some D&D terms it doesn't establish anything other than D&D also used a self-evident term.
Precisely!
There's also the optics to consider. If you change every term, it becomes obvious you are intentially trying to be different, rsther than just choosing the best term for the mechanic. Obvious things draw attention, so while you're intention is to safeguard yourself, you may only be inviting closer scrutiny for something that MAY encroach on WotC's IP. What you actually want to do is muddy the waters to make a lawsuit harder to stick.
I remember hearing about a case where someone was sued for slander, but the defendant demonstrated that they had a history of being a habitual liar, so charges were dropped.
Good vid pundit. I have no place to share it as I hate social media...but excellent non the less. LOL
I shared the video on my Twitter feed, FWIW. I thought it was excellent.
I'm not enjoying the ups and downs of this. My inbox has been flooded with 3rd party publishers (that I've bought from before) running big-bundle fire sales via DriveThruRPG. I feel like I'm taking advantage of them, but buying as much as I can now before it goes away... IF it goes away.
My group, all younger people, have been playing a Saltmarsh campaign using 5e (that I'm running) for over a year now. I've just been ignoring the latest "barista" releases and using 3pp stuff to enhance the game. I'm not gonna burn it down because WOTC sucks, but it does take some of the thrill out of it... no plans to ever buy "OneD&D" or "upgrade" after this debacle.
Approaching this target audience directly, is a smart move Pundit. A little bit bold and brash, perhaps; but if done tastefully, it might garner the attention of someone who owns enough shares of Hasbro to have a voice in that environment. Just give them a heads up, that Hasbro isn't just a toy company that's out to make a profit. They are actively harming their industry, and creating a huge list of enemies.
Quote from: Brigman on January 11, 2023, 01:03:08 PM
I shared the video on my Twitter feed, FWIW. I thought it was excellent.
I'm not enjoying the ups and downs of this. My inbox has been flooded with 3rd party publishers (that I've bought from before) running big-bundle fire sales via DriveThruRPG. I feel like I'm taking advantage of them, but buying as much as I can now before it goes away... IF it goes away.
My group, all younger people, have been playing a Saltmarsh campaign using 5e (that I'm running) for over a year now. I've just been ignoring the latest "barista" releases and using 3pp stuff to enhance the game. I'm not gonna burn it down because WOTC sucks, but it does take some of the thrill out of it... no plans to ever buy "OneD&D" or "upgrade" after this debacle.
The used market, will be the preferred route for any 5E purchases from here on out. That way, Hasbro makes zero additional money off of it. I'll never criticize someone, for running a game they already own and like. Just try not to fund WOTC's future, in any way.
Enjoy that Saltmarsh campaign. You already own it. Run the hell out of it.
Quote from: Effete on January 11, 2023, 10:30:14 AM
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 11, 2023, 10:14:14 AM
I'd further argue that it's not worth worrying about terms that are self-evident. I call my condition that reduces your speed by half "slowed" because that is an obvious term for having your speed reduced. I opted for "halted" instead of D&D's immobilized though because halted is also a self-evident term for having your movement reduced to zero while in general use the word immobilized is akin to paralyzed and thus not really a self-evident term.
The idea though in my case is to establish a pattern in my work. If I always use self-evident terms for things then even if those things happen to overlap with some D&D terms it doesn't establish anything other than D&D also used a self-evident term.
Precisely!
There's also the optics to consider. If you change every term, it becomes obvious you are intentially trying to be different, rsther than just choosing the best term for the mechanic. Obvious things draw attention, so while you're intention is to safeguard yourself, you may only be inviting closer scrutiny for something that MAY encroach on WotC's IP. What you actually want to do is muddy the waters to make a lawsuit harder to stick.
I remember hearing about a case where someone was sued for slander, but the defendant demonstrated that they had a history of being a habitual liar, so charges were dropped.
Yeah, I would go with change the terms that actually need to be changed. Like Intelligence - what is normally being tested for when you make an Intelligence check? It's to see if you know something. The higher your Intelligence score, the more likely you are to already know random information. What is a better term to describe that? Knowledge. Then we've got Wisdom, which is in natural language what you learn from experience - old people have more of it, young less. What is being tested for when you make a Wisdom check? Either perception or willpower. Does Willpower need to be an ability score, or can it comfortably be just a save? Charisma is a little bit less clear cut, since its use changes from one edition to the next, so while in D&D generically it's just the 6th stat, if you're making a system it's not a bad idea to be clear what you mean with it, and to pick a word that correctly describes it.
So you could end up with Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Knowledge, Perception, Likeability. Perception could even apply to stuff like saving throws vs Illusions (contrasting with how it is put on Intelligence in 2nd Edition), and even stuff like Charm magic (you're more likely to notice something is off about your best friend). Knowledge would clearly influence how many languages you know and/or how many skill points you get, just the way Intelligence did before, but the term is more transparent, and you also don't have the problem of figuring out how to play a genius when you're not, or correctly roleplay an idiot. You could be a smart player with a low Knowledge character - they can still act smartly, but they don't have as many skills, can't speak as many languages, and are just more ignorant of the world around them and its history.
Quote from: Effete on January 11, 2023, 09:31:44 AM
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 11, 2023, 08:39:28 AM
Honestly, the best thing for RPGs at this point will be the death of Hasbro's lifestyle brand hopes. The movie falling well short of their goal (thus failing to move its tie in products) and the mass exodus of 3pp and cancellations of DDB subscriptions from D&D proper showing that, in fact, D&D was OVER-monetized (largely due to the pandemic) will do that. Without that prospect, Hasbro will lose interest in the ttrpg market entirely as too small to bother with... which should reduce the threat of lawsuits against non-OGL products closer to what Hasbro in full lifestyle brand mode would pursue as infringements.
Yeah, I've shifted my position on this. A few days ago I was hoping Hasbro reverses and leaves the 1.0a untouched, but now I kinda just wanna watch them burn the house down around them. The mass exodus is a comforting thing; the hobby doesn't need DnD to survive. I just wish people would stop freaking out about the potential for lawsuits, backing away from using terms like "Strength" or "Hit Points." This is the time to challenge WotC on the usage of such terms, not relinquish them. Plenty of other games get by just fine using them. WotC may try to make an example of a few offenders (such as the obvious retroclones or even Kobold Press), but they won't after someone for using a generic gaming term. Especially if their hemorrhaging money.
If Hasbro wants to get salty about the usage of "hit points", they're going to have to explain to a judge why they never tried to sue SquareEnix, or several other large video game companies.
Even the hardware hacking crowd is weighing in (these are the folks that will repair a device that they can't get parts for any longer by cobbling their own replacement widget, I can't recall them ever weighing in on RPGs):
https://hackaday.com/2023/01/11/wizards-slay-the-dragon-that-lays-the-golden-egg/
Some of the comments are of interest as well.
Quote from: Corolinth on January 11, 2023, 07:41:59 PM
If Hasbro wants to get salty about the usage of "hit points", they're going to have to explain to a judge why they never tried to sue SquareEnix, or several other large video game companies.
It wasn't Hasbro I was talking about. It's all the people on this forum shaking in their boots, afraid of facing a lawsuit. As if their indy game that might sell a hundred copies is even going to show up on Hasbro's radar when companies like Kobold Press are firing warning shots across their bow.
Quote from: Effete on January 11, 2023, 11:07:08 PM
Quote from: Corolinth on January 11, 2023, 07:41:59 PM
If Hasbro wants to get salty about the usage of "hit points", they're going to have to explain to a judge why they never tried to sue SquareEnix, or several other large video game companies.
It wasn't Hasbro I was talking about. It's all the people on this forum shaking in their boots, afraid of facing a lawsuit. As if their indy game that might sell a hundred copies is even going to show up on Hasbro's radar when companies like Kobold Press are firing warning shots across their bow.
Do you understand they could just talk to KS, DTTRPG, etc and have it so you can't fund/sell your shit?
An official post from Wotc has landed.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1410-ogls-srds-one-d-d
Quote from: danskmacabre on January 11, 2023, 11:13:26 PM
An official post from Wotc has landed.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1410-ogls-srds-one-d-d
On December 21st 2022.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 11, 2023, 11:30:17 PM
Quote from: danskmacabre on January 11, 2023, 11:13:26 PM
An official post from Wotc has landed.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1410-ogls-srds-one-d-d
On December 21st 2022.
Oops, lol. Should of read the date.
Quote from: danskmacabre on January 11, 2023, 11:13:26 PM
An official post from Wotc has landed.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1410-ogls-srds-one-d-d
So their response to people's concern is... everything anyone who actually read the leak already knows? WTF? That addressed NONE of the concerns people actually have. WotC is so fukken tone-deaf, they don't even know why people are upset. Either that, or they're playing stupid.
What gets me is this part.
QuoteThe OGL needs an update to ensure that it keeps doing what it was intended to do—allow the D&D community's independent creators to build and play and grow the game we all love—without allowing things like third-parties to mint D&D NFTs and large businesses to exploit our intellectual property.
This shows that they fundamentally do not understand what the OGL was "intended" to do (or they are lying to you and gaslighting you because they think you're stupid (and let's face it, for half their fans that's probably true)). The OGL was intended to be an open source license, NOT just an outlet for DnD fans to make DnD material. You could make an entirely original ruleset, then source it through the OGL 1.0a. What Hasbro/WotC is trying to do is pull back and make the OGL a DnD exclusive license. Fine! Let them. They can lie in their bed like they lie on their website.
Edit - Oh, that was an old post... well, I guess I'm the goose too.
Quote from: danskmacabre on January 11, 2023, 11:31:59 PM
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 11, 2023, 11:30:17 PM
Quote from: danskmacabre on January 11, 2023, 11:13:26 PM
An official post from Wotc has landed.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1410-ogls-srds-one-d-d
On December 21st 2022.
Oops, lol. Should of read the date.
Yup. That was their sugarcoated sales pitch before news of the content dropped and well before the full text of the leaded document was released.
As of a few minutes from now it will officially have been a week since the full text leaked. WotC's only reply was now two days ago by the time most people will read this and was a grand total of "We know you have questions about the OGL. Please stand by."
And every day since the full leaked document release has had new announcements of third party creators and fans abandoning the WotC ship and the news has spread well beyond the ttrpg blogosphere and even the EFF has weighed in on 1.1 being a bad deal and potential threat to other open licenses.
It's NOT getting better for WotC the longer they stay silent. They have to realize that.
Then again maybe the scale of the catastrophe is just that overwhelming and the compounding nature of it is outpacing their PR department's spin machine. Like day one it would have been "well its out there, prepare a statement of our inevitable victory" and day two is "crap, some mid-sized names are jumping ship, make a statement about how the small companies will have to capitulate eventually" then "crap, a bunch of big names are stating they're pivoting to release their own non-OGL systems" then "crap, almost every 3pp is GONE!" then "crap, a bunch of DDB subs are cancelling and saying OGL1.1 is the reason."
My feeling is they have no idea what to do. They literally never expected this degree of backlash because it just doesn't happen in the Microsoft ecosystem they previously operated in... third parties couldn't just walk away and create their own operating system in a matter of weeks to run their programs on.
So my gut says they are just bunkering down right now (and maybe decides whose head(s) should roll) until they think the peak backlash has passed so they can finally make a statement when conditions aren't changing for them by the hour.
Quote from: Thorn Drumheller on January 11, 2023, 10:34:31 AM
Good vid pundit. I have no place to share it as I hate social media...but excellent non the less. LOL
Thanks!
Even the Libertarians are weighing in...
quote: Why the Tabletop Role-Playing World Is Furious About Changes to Dungeons & Dragons' Open Game License
https://reason.com/2023/01/12/why-the-tabletop-role-playing-world-is-furious-about-changes-to-dungeons-dragons-open-game-license/
(https://reason.com/2023/01/12/why-the-tabletop-role-playing-world-is-furious-about-changes-to-dungeons-dragons-open-game-license/)
Well, I guess today Hasbro stocks dipped a smidge, but somehow despite everything they've been on an upwards-ish trajectory for even the past 5 days or so. I think Pundit is right, though. Ultimately one must heed legality and the lessons of history and they are doing neither. I actually learned a fair bit about the history of the hobby from this video, so much appreciated both in that sense and as it stands in opposition to the immoral BS WotC and Hasbro are pulling.
I doubt the OGL kerfluffle can affect Hasbro's stock long term.
According to WotC's early announcements, 6e will be a "walled garden" and investors love that. The more the company can control their customer base, the more profits. Also, the promise of more "digital" focus always makes investors tingle.
As for the Woke D&D movie, we'll see how the audience responds, but the real money would be made on streaming since theater attendance was killed by the shamdemic.
Also, you'll see the 3PP signing the OGL for 6e...but via new subsidiaries. Too much money on the table for small press publishers, especially those who have 100s of 3e & OSR & 5e titles that could easily be tweaked during the 6e playtest and launched during the first weeks of 6e's launch.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 11, 2023, 11:10:23 PM
Do you understand they could just talk to KS, DTTRPG, etc and have it so you can't fund/sell your shit?
KS has a problem. If KS becomes the bulldog for WotC, then Gamefound becomes the new kewl hotspot for RPGs.
Same issue for DTTRPG. They already have the DM's Guild as their "Official" D&D area separate from OGL products. If DriveThru becomes a bulldog, then you'll see a new PDF / POD site rise.
Personally, I hope KS and DT go full bitch for WotC.
Let it all burn.
Even The Guardian is reporting on the D&D debacle (and it's the 6th most read article today):
https://www.theguardian.com/games/2023/jan/12/dungeons-and-dragons-wizards-of-the-coast-ogl
The headline ('People are leaving the game': Dungeons & Dragons fans revolt against new restrictions) will probably scare someone at Hasbro.
Quote from: Frey on January 13, 2023, 07:31:41 AM
Even The Guardian is reporting on the D&D debacle (and it's the 6th most read article today):
https://www.theguardian.com/games/2023/jan/12/dungeons-and-dragons-wizards-of-the-coast-ogl
The headline ('People are leaving the game': Dungeons & Dragons fans revolt against new restrictions) will probably scare someone at Hasbro.
And mind you, they're not leaving RPGs -- they've leaving for competitors.
Paizo's website actually crashed the other night from all the traffic.
This is fucking hilarious and I am so glad we have ringside seats.
Also, bear in mind, Hasbro has not released 4th quarter earnings yet.
https://investor.hasbro.com/financial-information/quarterly-results
Hasbro has to answer for the Holiday season as well as the disaster that was MTG's $999 box set of dupe cards. Tack on this hit to the DNDBeyond portal with massive unsusbscription and now the news hitting 'normie' outlets the Hedge Fund's will demand answers on the earnings call when the report is released and there's a 'blip' on the earnings for WOTC.
Quote from: Corolinth on January 11, 2023, 07:41:59 PM
If Hasbro wants to get salty about the usage of "hit points", they're going to have to explain to a judge why they never tried to sue SquareEnix, or several other large video game companies.
Hit Points came from a navy war-game according to legend. If anyone finds such a gam, combined with the use of hit points throughout the hobby (including the computer side) for half a century, well it doesn't seem they'd have much of a case.
Quote from: Ruprecht on January 13, 2023, 10:06:52 AM
Quote from: Corolinth on January 11, 2023, 07:41:59 PM
If Hasbro wants to get salty about the usage of "hit points", they're going to have to explain to a judge why they never tried to sue SquareEnix, or several other large video game companies.
Hit Points came from a navy war-game according to legend. If anyone finds such a gam, combined with the use of hit points throughout the hobby (including the computer side) for half a century, well it doesn't seem they'd have much of a case.
It's not a legend, there's an interview with Arneson where he talks about it, and also Saving Throws come from the wargame Arneson was playing in his table, he invented those.
But that's mechanics, the first two so old and predating TSR that they couldn't try to trademark the name. The third one was first published in 1971's Chainmail edition no trademark either.
So, the mechanics ARE fine to use, and the names too because no trademark and there's decades of people not D&D using them.
Just going to leave this here it's WotC's explanation/response to the OGL debacle as of 1/13/2023.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1423-an-update-on-the-open-game-license-ogl
Quote from: Alden on January 13, 2023, 11:55:00 AM
Just going to leave this here it's WotC's explanation/response to the OGL debacle as of 1/13/2023.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1423-an-update-on-the-open-game-license-ogl
Oh boy let's discuss this shall we:
QuoteFirst, we wanted the ability to prevent the use of D&D content from being included in hateful and discriminatory products
Second Sentence and they are already gaslighting.
QuoteSecond, we wanted to address those attempting to use D&D in web3, blockchain games, and NFTs by making clear that OGL content is limited to tabletop roleplaying content like campaigns, modules, and supplements
Web3-buzzword, nebulous
blockchain game-buzzword, nebulous application
NFT- buzzword dead application
QuoteAnd third, we wanted to ensure that the OGL is for the content creator, the homebrewer, the aspiring designer, our players, and the community—not major corporations to use for their own commercial and promotional purpose.
Translation: It's ok for the little guy to make stuff, but anyone making a considerable amount of Cash, you fucking better pay us.
Quote
Driving these goals were two simple principles: (1) Our job is to be good stewards of the game, and (2) the OGL exists for the benefit of the fans. Nothing about those principles has wavered for a second.
1. Liar and False
2. No it was designed for ANYONE who wanted to write for D&D to do so AND to sell their works if they so chose to do so. A half-truth.
Quote
That was why our early drafts of the new OGL included the provisions they did. That draft language was provided to content creators and publishers so their feedback could be considered before anything was finalized.
False again as you don't sign draft contracts and expect them to be taken into Law. OGL 1.1 was set to go into effect as is.
Quote
In addition to language allowing us to address discriminatory and hateful conduct and clarifying what types of products the OGL covers, our drafts included royalty language designed to apply to large corporations attempting to use OGL content. It was never our intent to impact the vast majority of the community.
Again with the gaslighting and morality police. Now they've gone up from "only 20 companies" to "Large Corporations!" Also, considerign the vast majority of the community falls between the 50k-750k range that is a significant chunk of people.
QuoteHowever, it's clear from the reaction that we rolled a 1.
insert that Meme here
Quote
It has become clear that it is no longer possible to fully achieve all three goals while still staying true to our principles.
You mean we found out you were going to fuck the community over in your pursuit of getting extra ROI percentage points? Why not be honest with us here?
Quote
The next OGL will contain the provisions that allow us to protect and cultivate the inclusive environment we are trying to build and specify that it covers only content for TTRPGs.
OGL 1.0a does this already
Quote
That means that other expressions, such as educational and charitable campaigns, livestreams, cosplay, VTT-uses, etc., will remain unaffected by any OGL update. Content already released under 1.0a will also remain unaffected.
OGL 1.0a does all this already at 1/10 the word count
Quote
What it will not contain is any royalty structure.
here starts the walk-back attempt and damage control
Quote
It also will not include the license back provision that some people were afraid was a means for us to steal work. That thought never crossed our minds
No WOTC you never thought of it as "stealing" only being able to take popular content and use it for free, forever, without paying the creators or acknolweding them. You wanted the community to build your VTT platform's content for free.
Quote
Under any new OGL, you will own the content you create. We won't. Any language we put down will be crystal clear and unequivocal on that point.
OGL 1.0a does this already
QuoteThe license back language was intended to protect us and our partners from creators who incorrectly allege that we steal their work simply because of coincidental similarities.
That's called Trademark infrigement and can be settled in court. Also, OGL 1.0a does this already if you use the content you must attribute the creator and no one can get sue happy.
QuoteAs we continue to invest in the game that we love and move forward with partnerships in film, television, and digital games, that risk is simply too great to ignore. The new OGL will contain provisions to address that risk, but we will do it without a license back and without suggesting we have rights to the content you create. Your ideas and imagination are what makes this game special, and that belongs to you.
How can you make a D&D movie and use the trademark and not be sued? OGL does not allow the use of the "D&D" logo in any shape or form. This is the heart of the issue in how they can protect the brand and use it for a Netflix show.
QuoteA couple of last thoughts. First, we won't be able to release the new OGL today, because we need to make sure we get it right, but it is coming.
Good luck with that leaking submarine you call a company in anything coming out will now be scrutinized 16 ways to sunday.
Quote
Second, you're going to hear people say that they won, and we lost because making your voices heard forced us to change our plans. Those people will only be half right. They won—and so did we.
Nice pompus and smug backhanded compliment you gave yourself WOTC. Whichever lawyer and marketing schelp wrote that you better fire for their sheer hubris. Now is the time to be humble instead of arrogant. Another 1 on your Diplomacy check.
QuoteOur plan was always to solicit the input of our community before any update to the OGL; the drafts you've seen were attempting to do just that.
You can't use drafts for contracts as we've determined.
Quote
We want to always delight fans and create experiences together that everyone loves. We realize we did not do that this time and we are sorry for that. Our goal was to get exactly the type of feedback on which provisions worked and which did not–which we ultimately got from you. Any change this major could only have been done well if we were willing to take that feedback, no matter how it was provided–so we are. Thank you for caring enough to let us know what works and what doesn't, what you need and what scares you. Without knowing that, we can't do our part to make the new OGL match our principles. Finally, we'd appreciate the chance to make this right. We love D&D's devoted players and the creators who take them on so many incredible adventures. We won't let you down.
A community feedback forum with a draft of the OGL could have gone a long way into preventing this shitshow. Hiding all this behind the scenes with lawyer speak and NDA BS has shown WOTC is a terrible steward and does not have the interest of the players at heart only their own corporate greed.
I give this a 4/10 on the Damage Control meter. They tried, better to put more points in Persuassion next level.
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 11, 2023, 08:39:28 AM
Honestly, the best thing for RPGs at this point will be the death of Hasbro's lifestyle brand hopes. The movie falling well short of their goal (thus failing to move its tie in products) and the mass exodus of 3pp and cancellations of DDB subscriptions from D&D proper showing that, in fact, D&D was OVER-monetized (largely due to the pandemic) will do that. Without that prospect, Hasbro will lose interest in the ttrpg market entirely as too small to bother with... which should reduce the threat of lawsuits against non-OGL products closer to what Hasbro in full lifestyle brand mode would pursue as infringements.
My fantasy is the next season of Stranger Things opens up with the kids playing Traveller.
Quote from: DocJones on January 13, 2023, 12:44:30 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 11, 2023, 08:39:28 AM
Honestly, the best thing for RPGs at this point will be the death of Hasbro's lifestyle brand hopes. The movie falling well short of their goal (thus failing to move its tie in products) and the mass exodus of 3pp and cancellations of DDB subscriptions from D&D proper showing that, in fact, D&D was OVER-monetized (largely due to the pandemic) will do that. Without that prospect, Hasbro will lose interest in the ttrpg market entirely as too small to bother with... which should reduce the threat of lawsuits against non-OGL products closer to what Hasbro in full lifestyle brand mode would pursue as infringements.
My fantasy is the next season of Stranger Things opens up with the kids playing Traveller.
Palladium Rifts(C)(TM)(R)
Quote from: THE_Leopold on January 13, 2023, 12:23:31 PM
I give this a 4/10 on the Damage Control meter.
Seems about right. I'm seeing a few dimwits buying into it.
Quote from: Alden on January 13, 2023, 11:55:00 AM
Just going to leave this here it's WotC's explanation/response to the OGL debacle as of 1/13/2023.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1423-an-update-on-the-open-game-license-ogl
Archived link HERE (https://web.archive.org/web/20230113174014/https://www.dndbeyond.com/posts/1423-an-update-on-the-open-game-license-ogl).
Quote from: S'mon on January 13, 2023, 01:04:44 PM
Quote from: THE_Leopold on January 13, 2023, 12:23:31 PM
I give this a 4/10 on the Damage Control meter.
Seems about right. I'm seeing a few dimwits buying into it.
Who is that fucking stupid to swallow that load of lot lizard oily cumdumps?
Quote from: THE_Leopold on January 13, 2023, 01:31:54 PM
Quote from: S'mon on January 13, 2023, 01:04:44 PM
Quote from: THE_Leopold on January 13, 2023, 12:23:31 PM
I give this a 4/10 on the Damage Control meter.
Seems about right. I'm seeing a few dimwits buying into it.
Who is that fucking stupid to swallow that load of lot lizard oily cumdumps?
The Sparkle Troll Brigade.
Quote from: GeekyBugle on January 13, 2023, 01:38:39 PM
Quote from: THE_Leopold on January 13, 2023, 01:31:54 PM
Quote from: S'mon on January 13, 2023, 01:04:44 PM
Quote from: THE_Leopold on January 13, 2023, 12:23:31 PM
I give this a 4/10 on the Damage Control meter.
Seems about right. I'm seeing a few dimwits buying into it.
Who is that fucking stupid to swallow that load of lot lizard oily cumdumps?
The Sparkle Troll Brigade.
Yeah, pretty much. I'm seeing a few on ENW, and most seem pretty sparkly.
Greetings!
Good analysis and commentary, Leopold! I agree.
4/10 Damage Control! *Laughing*
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Quote from: SHARK on January 13, 2023, 02:18:40 PM
Good analysis and commentary, Leopold! I agree.
Yes thank you Leopold, great analysis of WotC's damage control
Anytime. Glad to be of service.
This has been a helluva week and the ride is only getting started.
Quote from: JeremyR on January 10, 2023, 10:54:23 PM
I wish you were right, but I have at least a dozen co-workers that play D&D (5e). None of them know about the OGL.
Meanwhile, to boost their stock, Hasbro just needs to go on and on about how the OGL1.1 lets them leverage Web 3 for profit and people will lick it up. Get your Drizzt and Elminster NFTs
To mangle a Trotsky (I think) quote: "they might not care about the OGL, but the OGL cares about them"
Quote from: THE_Leopold on January 13, 2023, 03:00:56 PM
Anytime. Glad to be of service.
This has been a helluva week and the ride is only getting started.
Can I quote you in our podcast tonight? I think what you said was PERFECT.
7 pm EST The Evil DM on youtube
Quote from: DocJones on January 13, 2023, 12:44:30 PM
Quote from: Chris24601 on January 11, 2023, 08:39:28 AM
Honestly, the best thing for RPGs at this point will be the death of Hasbro's lifestyle brand hopes. The movie falling well short of their goal (thus failing to move its tie in products) and the mass exodus of 3pp and cancellations of DDB subscriptions from D&D proper showing that, in fact, D&D was OVER-monetized (largely due to the pandemic) will do that. Without that prospect, Hasbro will lose interest in the ttrpg market entirely as too small to bother with... which should reduce the threat of lawsuits against non-OGL products closer to what Hasbro in full lifestyle brand mode would pursue as infringements.
My fantasy is the next season of Stranger Things opens up with the kids playing Traveller.
Tunnels and Trolls. Keep it a fantasy RPG and simple. Vintage traveller is beyond the understanding of most hollywood writers.
Quote from: Franky on January 15, 2023, 09:36:31 PM
Tunnels and Trolls. Keep it a fantasy RPG and simple. Vintage traveller is beyond the understanding of most hollywood writers.
After what they've been through I would think Toons.
If this is just posted on Youtube it is going nowhere.
Meanwhile, Hasbro has been named one of America's Most Just Companies.
https://gamerant.com/hasbro-just-capital-cnbc-wizards-of-the-coast-controversy/
This article was trending apparently, and reminded me of the opinion expressed by Pundit rather presciently in his video and on this thread: https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/01/17/big-change-coming-for-hasbro-should-investor-worry/
At least a few companies with consumer goods end-markets have already reported weak Q4s, reflecting how low/middle-income consumers are still under pressure (inflation hurting spending power) and how many are rotating what little discretionary income they have toward services from goods. This is a continuation of trends seen last summer/fall. The comps are tough as well. HAS is not immune to these broad-based trends (WMT/TGT both got hammered last summer), so I would be careful not to read too much into a weak Q4 number or 2023 guidance.
It will be interesting if this OGL topic even arises on the call. I'm guessing not, but if so, they'll casually dismiss it with some corporate speak about evolving to serve the customer in a way that benefits everyone etc.
WOTC's OGL blunder won't have any real impact until next month when the ORC rises and D&D (possibly) falls on the outside parking lot of an rpg circus. But then maybe WOTC joins the ORC to cover their backside. 3rd party creators made WOTC and then giving those creators a nice brown shower can't bode well for them. Monetizing D&D should've been drawing as many 3rd party artists to WOTC as possible but instead - they alienated them.
Hilarious. This is the opportunity for Paizo and other rpg companies to unite into a conglomerate that shakes WOTC to its knees.But, we'll see.
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/26/hasbro-stock-tanks-as-company-cuts-jobs-warns-of-weak-fourth-quarter.html
Bad Q4 not a huge surprise. CNBC did mention the OGL debacle, though probably not quite the way one of us would have done. I doubt their writers know much more than whatever the company told them about it.
Quote from: Chainsaw on January 26, 2023, 07:00:26 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/26/hasbro-stock-tanks-as-company-cuts-jobs-warns-of-weak-fourth-quarter.html
Bad Q4 not a huge surprise. CNBC did mention the OGL debacle, though probably not quite the way one of us would have done. I doubt their writers know much more than whatever the company told them about it.
They hinted at this. The stock is getting killed in after hours, but it is still going to open $5 higher than it was when Prof. DM misread their financials. This OGL debacle is not likely to move the needle. But if the movie tanks in a few weeks, watch out.
I still see most places with an $80 target. The 4 billion purchase of eOne is what everyone is watching. Investors HATED the purchase. It will be very interesting to see what the post-opening weekend brings.
The layoffs are a good thing. And that is something probably universally celebrated around here :).
Quote from: Theory of Games on January 25, 2023, 07:48:39 PM
WOTC's OGL blunder won't have any real impact until next month when the ORC rises and D&D (possibly) falls on the outside parking lot of an rpg circus. But then maybe WOTC joins the ORC to cover their backside. 3rd party creators made WOTC and then giving those creators a nice brown shower can't bode well for them. Monetizing D&D should've been drawing as many 3rd party artists to WOTC as possible but instead - they alienated them.
Hilarious. This is the opportunity for Paizo and other rpg companies to unite into a conglomerate that shakes WOTC to its knees.But, we'll see.
Trade one devil for another. Hurray.
Quote from: Chainsaw on January 26, 2023, 07:00:26 PM
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/01/26/hasbro-stock-tanks-as-company-cuts-jobs-warns-of-weak-fourth-quarter.html
Bad Q4 not a huge surprise. CNBC did mention the OGL debacle, though probably not quite the way one of us would have done. I doubt their writers know much more than whatever the company told them about it.
Cocks claims strong growth in digital gaming. What????
Shareholders react:
https://twitter.com/AltaFoxCapital/status/1618597255786942470 (https://twitter.com/AltaFoxCapital/status/1618597255786942470)
Well that's too bad about their money. :) Hasbro/WotC dead Spring 2023. :D May they save as much of their money as they can as not a single red cent of mine will go to anything Hasbro/WotC will do until it all comes tumbling down.
;) Update resume's, diversify portfolio, find other game shelters, keep the cottage industry a hobby. It's been irritating while the consolidation lasted, and now it's time to say goodbye. ;D