I've got the Warzone book that introduces the ruined earth faction. Dont know if they had a theme or not other than ruined earth survivors and such. Id have to dig it out. But I recall they were just kinda... there. They didnt interact with the rest of the setting it seemed.

Thanks Spike - that got me to tear up laughing more than once!

David, your comment about the worth of the automatic gunfire rules had me interested and confused for a second, but it seems pretty clear that 85-95% of what this game is like is something that would drive me to distraction. I am slightly curious how they handle gunfire given your comment, except it sounds like they don't care much about simulating anything other than narrative stuff.

Okay so the base mechanic is that you roll a number of d20s and try to roll under skill expertise + attribute and skill focus to generate successes.  Thus you can generate up to two successes per die.  Any successes in excess of the difficulty rating generate Momentum which can be used to buy extra damage, target hit locations (I really like this), hit extra targets (which is the important part when it comes to autofire), and can even be banked for use by the other players.  The average task difficulty is one so you need to generate at least one success to succeed.  Mooks start with 1 and heroes start with 2.  PCs can add additional d20s by paying the GM a dark symmetry point for each additional d20.  Normally any roll of 20 gives the GM a dark symmetry point so there is some inherent risk in taking more dice.  As stress builds up in the form of Dread the range can be as low as 16 -20.  There are some talents that are activated by giving the GM dark symmetry points as well.  Dark symmetry points are used to interrupt the PCs go first initiative system, allow bad guys to dodge or parry, cause fumbles and equipment malfunctions, inflict Dread on the PCs, and let the bad guys fire heavy weapons.  You can see why I feel the game ties the GM's hands a lot of the time.  But I'll admit that the players have a lot of fun building up momentum pools and denying the GM Dark Symmetry Points.

Okay, so that's a mouthful and plays cleaner than it reads.

Weapons have five abstract Reloads that represent enough ammunition for one combat sequence.  Automatic weapons are rated as Semi, Burst, or Auto.  A semi automatic weapon can be fired rapidly to gain an addition d20 on the task and an additional damage dice at the cost of one reload.  A burst weapon can be fired on automatic to gain two additional d20s on the task and two additional damage dice at the cost of two reloads.  An automatic weapon can be fired on fully automatic to gain three additional d20s on the task and three additional damage dice.  It normally costs 2 momentum to buy an additional target but some weapons have the Torrent trait that allows it to buy additional targets for one momentum.  I think there's a Heavy Weapons talent that lets you hit additional targets as well.

So, the reason I like it is that you can hit lots of targets and do lots of damage but you can also render than sixteen barrel charger HMG that you spent so much money on so much dead weight in a real hurry.  Being able to decide whether you're focussing the attack on a single target to maximize damage or spreading it out to hit a bunch of foes also helps.  If you decide to really go nuts you can pay out three Dark Symmetry points and roll 8d20 with that HMG and generate a potential 16 hits.  It's a bit abstract but it sure beats counting bullets and largely hits the important matters.  There's a suppression fire rule too but I can't remember what it is.

I feel compelled to add that one of the earliest examples of play as the lone PC using his momentum from his sneaking into the sewers check to add to his shooting the first gangster he sees... which in and of itself is an intruiging idea but one that, as presented might lend itself to all sorts of absurd play.  The problem is that he rolls so damn good shooting the gangster he decideds that he also shot the second gangster with the same action, and you start to realize that  you are watching one of those action movies where "the Hero" stands in the middle of a street "somewhere" and points a gun at a camera, then there is a quick edit, and on a street "Somewhere" and bunch of random stuntmen fall over... or, as in Expendables 2, the sniper somehow outruns the boat to find a new firing position 'somewhere' ahead of the people he's supposed to be running away WITH, because... reasons?

And that's the shitty film making that Mutant Chronicles apparently wants to emulate. I seem to recall that teh PC in teh example decides to use a Reload on his very first action, and you start to realize that the term reload doesn't actually mean anything, nothing matters, and we're all doomed to dust in a deeply uncaring universe.

Ohhh... So they are emulating the MC movie everyone would prefer never existed. :rolleyes:

Quote from: Omega;940790Ohhh... So they are emulating the MC movie everyone would prefer never existed. :rolleyes:

I don't know what you're talking about. I make a point of watching it at least once a year.  Ron motherfucking Pearlman, you dig?

I have to admit that group momentum is a bit bizarre.  It's like carrying over the excess damage to the next goblin in D&D except you also get to add another player's excess hide in shadows.

As for the movie, I remember when Cryptech magazine interviewed John Carpenter and he said his next movie was going to be Mutant Chronicles but that what he really wanted to do was erotica.

Anyhow, he ditched Mutant Chronicles and did Ghosts of Mars which is a movie about big men with big guns fighting zombies on Mars.  Take that how you will.

I think it's amazing that we got a movie at all.  There's a decent little Polish video of a Free Marine fighting some Legionaires.

But yes, it's very much an over the top action game.  Yes, four career characters can take on scary monsters and make them wish they'd stay on Nero.  But if you do one career characters they'll be more like regular rpg characters.  I don't mind the Life Points.  It's a balance between all random and points buy.  It says, "okay, this is a game with a lot of random tables but you can make five picks."  It doesn't really bother me though some of the details really need to be set out from the text better.

Quote from: Spike;940779I seem to recall that teh PC in teh example decides to use a Reload on his very first action, and you start to realize that the term reload doesn't actually mean anything, nothing matters, and we're all doomed to dust in a deeply uncaring universe.

You must redo all the game reviews I shall ever read from now on! And you gotta read them in a lullaby tone of voice!


I also shall now create an homage to "Bob the Slenderman, now with nemesis!" in your honor. I am thinking naive crayon scrawling... His nemesis will be as wavy silhouette in the background (like a coffee stain) and Bob central in the piece (in all his slender glory), with four stacked shoulder pads and a massive bandolier comprised of his six free hand canon pistols. You can roll the rest of his lifepath for me, such as elite homeless street criminal desk jockey cum politician.

Little did Opaopajr know that when he was young I used to come to him in the night and do book reviews from Azathoth to sooth his troubled dreams...

... dreams sent from Bob the Slenderman for reasons best left unspoken, for Opaopajr was destined to become the Nemesis of Bob in the coming days, when the Elder Gods awoke and cried out in all their terrible glory, and when Man would become once more... once more...

Necks millstoned in gangsta rapper chains of army pistols, bootlegged underwear worthy of capital punishment, and used cars mere distant dreams...

These are the childhood songs of the demons beyond Pluto. How they long to join humanity.

Quote from: Spike;940802I don't know what you're talking about. I make a point of watching it at least once a year.  Ron motherfucking Pearlman, you dig?

Even Pearlman cant save it from being abjectly not Mutant Chronicles. And not even a good action movie either.

Quote from: Omega;940845Even Pearlman cant save it from being abjectly not Mutant Chronicles. And not even a good action movie either.

In its defense, you might notice that the guns used by the characters do reflect... if only very weakly... the unique design elements of their faction. The german guy had a forward canted magazine in his gun, for example.  Somewhere on this site, long lost I suppose, I did a review of it where I speculated that someone in the prop department was a secret fan.  Beyond that... well... the Dark Soul IS imprisoned on Earth, with the Apostles out beyond Pluto, but... yeah, it kinda fails to deliver the setting pretty hard.  Maybe not as hard as teh Mario Bros. movie failed... that's a low bar to slip under, after all...

It kinda sorta fits with the corporations abandoning the Earth.  If the Brotherhood or Corporations cloned the Doom Troopers and brought them back in the hour of need or something.  The Necromutants not having guns and the absence of proper zombies bothers me.  But I do think that the Dark Soul being imprisoned on Earth would explain why the Corporations abandoned it.

Thanks for the rules summary, David! I think I basically understand how it works.

Quote from: David Johansen;940709Okay so the base mechanic is that you roll a number of d20s and try to roll under skill expertise + attribute and skill focus to generate successes.  Thus you can generate up to two successes per die.

So typically someone might have a 6 attribute, 3 expertise, 2 focus, with the result that for each d20, if they roll 9 or less they get 1 success point, and if they roll a 2 or less they get another success point?

QuoteAny successes in excess of the difficulty rating generate Momentum which can be used to buy extra damage, target hit locations (I really like this), hit extra targets (which is the important part when it comes to autofire), and can even be banked for use by the other players.  The average task difficulty is one so you need to generate at least one success to succeed.  Mooks start with 1 and heroes start with 2.  PCs can add additional d20s by paying the GM a dark symmetry point for each additional d20.  Normally any roll of 20 gives the GM a dark symmetry point so there is some inherent risk in taking more dice.  As stress builds up in the form of Dread the range can be as low as 16 -20.  There are some talents that are activated by giving the GM dark symmetry points as well.  Dark symmetry points are used to interrupt the PCs go first initiative system, allow bad guys to dodge or parry, cause fumbles and equipment malfunctions, inflict Dread on the PCs, and let the bad guys fire heavy weapons.  You can see why I feel the game ties the GM's hands a lot of the time.  But I'll admit that the players have a lot of fun building up momentum pools and denying the GM Dark Symmetry Points.

Okay, so that's a mouthful and plays cleaner than it reads.

Weapons have five abstract Reloads that represent enough ammunition for one combat sequence.  Automatic weapons are rated as Semi, Burst, or Auto.  A semi automatic weapon can be fired rapidly to gain an addition d20 on the task and an additional damage dice at the cost of one reload.  A burst weapon can be fired on automatic to gain two additional d20s on the task and two additional damage dice at the cost of two reloads.  An automatic weapon can be fired on fully automatic to gain three additional d20s on the task and three additional damage dice.  It normally costs 2 momentum to buy an additional target but some weapons have the Torrent trait that allows it to buy additional targets for one momentum.  I think there's a Heavy Weapons talent that lets you hit additional targets as well.

So, the reason I like it is that you can hit lots of targets and do lots of damage but you can also render than sixteen barrel charger HMG that you spent so much money on so much dead weight in a real hurry.  Being able to decide whether you're focussing the attack on a single target to maximize damage or spreading it out to hit a bunch of foes also helps.  If you decide to really go nuts you can pay out three Dark Symmetry points and roll 8d20 with that HMG and generate a potential 16 hits.  It's a bit abstract but it sure beats counting bullets and largely hits the important matters.  There's a suppression fire rule too but I can't remember what it is.

I can see how this would be playable and sort of work for players who don't know or care about combat details, even though it would drive those who do care to distraction. And yes, how that could give a similar feel to the films that also drive me to distraction.

Since success is transferable, could someone shoot an HMG for 8d20, and then give the extra successes to other PCs to do any sort of other action? So if some PC wants to accomplish some task they normally can't do, they could have their friend shoot at someone with full auto, and borrow the extra success points for whatever? Are they at least limited to combat successes being used for combat stuff, or can you have one PC who wants to buy one of those impossibly-priced used cars get on the phone with a used car dealer, and then have another PC fire with full auto on something to get extra success momentum for the other character's purchase?

As far as I understand it you could indeed dump all that momentum into the group pool.  In practice, there should be enough enemies that it's not an option.  One thing I've had to re-think significantly is encounter design.  You need around three times the number of PCs plus a boss to keep the pressure on.  And an HMG is too expensive to abandon when you're out of ammo but pretty sub optimal as a single shot weapon.

Admittedly it's movie physics but it's not the, "I've got the biggest gun so it's the best gun," effect that so many rpgs fall into.  There are good reasons to use a pistol at close quarters and sniper rifles aren't the ultimate weapon in the universe.  No, it doesn't model the fiddly little details though some of the tactical uses of automatic weapons are worked into the combat system and talents.

The talents are a major part of the system.  One reason there are so few skills is that each skill has a nine or ten part talent tree.  It's the talents that make you scary in combat.

One thing on the Assets system.  It's not as bad as Spike makes out.  You roll Lifestyle to find what you're looking for and you roll Thievery to find one that's not nailed down.  Then you roll your income to essentially see if it's in your budget this week.  Assets are like your savings.  Really, it's just saying we aren't tracking anything smaller than a gold piece and you can roll to see if it fits into your budget.

But no, it's not Phoenix Command or even GURPS Tactical Shooting.