I see my mistake now; I thought pawsplay was attributing SJW motives on Rifts as a criticism when instead he meant it as praise because he/she/shit (I don't want to judge their pronouns) is just another SJW with the self-attributed magical power to read the hearts and inner minds of men and judge them for it and who reads meaning into texts that simply isn't there.

I'll admit to being surprised though that for once this is being used to try and spare an RPG from the wrath of the deranged Leftists instead of destroying it.

Quote from: pawsplay;1144426You know, it might be a complete coincidence that that Coalition States share their initials with the Confederate States of America.

Only in 2+2=4 is oppression-land are CSA (Confederate States of America) and CS (Coalition States... with a distinct lack of "America" in its name) the same. The fact is that in the books they are most commonly called simply "The Coalition" in the same way that it's just "The Empire" in Star Wars because they were intended to be basically the same thing in Rifts.

QuoteMaybe it's completely random that the Coalition's dog boys come from Lone Star. It could be an unintentional parallel that the CS are fascist, racist authoritarians whose dress code incorporates skulls, and that is not intended to have any parallels with any situations in real life.

I'll admit to being unfamiliar with whatever "dog whistle" (pun intended) you think having genetically engineered mutant dog soldiers from a research facility in Texas is supposed to indicate. The actual site also created numerous other mutant animal-human hybrids including cats, bears and monkeys and even weirder stuff than that).

Likewise, Skulls were big in a lot of German/Nazi symbolism too. It's pervasive enough to have its own Wikipedia entry; the Totenkopf. Given that the Coalition is intended to be led by Literal Nazis... skull motifs, racist and fascist doesn't seem like it's intended to mean anything deeper than "they're Nazis and villains."

QuoteEven if you set all that aside, Cyber-Knights are literally warriors for social justice. They defend the weak, they oppose the over-reaches of authority, and they exist to bring light to the world.

No, they are literally classical chivalric knights in shining armor. Their code is literally a variation on the Code of Chivalry found in "The Song of Roland" from the 11th Century that Kevin adapted first for the Knight/Palladin class in Palladium Fantasy and then tweaked further for Rifts;

- To fear God and maintain His Church
- To serve the liege lord in valour and faith
- To protect the weak and defenceless
- To give succour to widows and orphans
- To refrain from the wanton giving of offence
- To live by honour and for glory
- To despise pecuniary reward
- To fight for the welfare of all
- To obey those placed in authority
- To guard the honour of fellow knights
- To eschew unfairness, meanness and deceit
- To keep faith
- At all times to speak the truth
- To persevere to the end in any enterprise begun
- To respect the honour of women
- Never to refuse a challenge from an equal
- Never to turn the back upon a foe

But leave it to a Leftist to think that only the modern woke could have come up with standards of goodness and heroism that white Christian males actually worked out more than a millennium ago.

QuoteEquating Antifa to fascism is simply stupid. The opposite of Antifa is fascism. If you oppose people who oppose fascism, you are supporting fascism.

Because NO ONE EVER uses misleading names for themselves... I'm sure the Democratic People's Republic of (North) Korea is exactly the bastion of democratic and republican principles in service to the people that it's name implies.

Antifa is a bunch of international critical theory Marxists supported by the same people who in the 70s believed that murdering 20% of the US population was justified by their dreams of the utopia that they thought it would usher in.

The only difference between them and fascist National Socialists of Germany is that they want globalists in charge of the State instead of nationalists in charge of the State.

QuoteDo you think a Glitter Boy is supposed to fire into crowds of unarmed protesters?

No, but Antifa attacks peaceful conservative protestors regularly. https://www.berkeleyside.com/2018/08/08/eric-clanton-takes-3-year-probation-deal-in-berkeley-rally-bike-lock-assault-case

QuoteDo you think a Cyber-Knight would kill someone for being a public nuisance or selling untaxed cigarettes?

No, but BLM supporters murder young unarmed mothers for saying "all lives matter."
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8515507/Young-mother-24-shot-dead-fianc-saying-lives-matter.html

QuoteLiterally, you can play a Scholar, teaching people knowledge, science, and rhetoric that will cause people to rise up against the established authority.

You mean a corrupt authority that uses fake news propaganda to keep its people ignorant and whip up their hatred against people who believe differently from the State's preferences?

But I understand now; if this were Rifts you'd BE a Coalition citizen because you're one of the brainwashed masses who believe that all those who don't fully embrace wokism are evil monsters who need to have their voices silenced so you can finally achieve your leaders' vision of utopia.

Quote from: BrokenCounsel;1144511I'll just leave this here. https://projects.inklesspen.com/fatal-and-friends/kurieg/bellum-maga/

Looks like there's a spiritual successor game on the horizon: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/greyauthor/the-great-american-witch

Can I call this offensive for its misuse of Scripture in the tag and its Hislopian misrepresentation and appropriation of Catholic teaching on Mary? (That's a rhetorical question; I already know the answer is a firm No.)

Quote from: Snark Knight;1144526The Nazis called themselves National Socialists, therefore if you support socialism you're a nazi.

The Democratic People's Republic of Korea has 'democratic' in the title, therefore it's a democracy.

Don't laugh, there's people on this very site who actually believe (or claim to believe) that Nazis were socialist, just because they put "socialist" in their branding. Ridiculous I know, but hey, there's no accounting for folk.

Frankly, getting back to rpgs, there is little or no need for role playing games to be politically branded at all. At most, it's the lamest possible way of pushing any political agenda.  RaHoWa or woke, either way it's a pathetic and fairly meaningless venue for pushing any political agenda, whatever that may be.

Quote from: Zirunel;1144555Don't laugh, there's people on this very site who actually believe (or claim to believe) that Nazis were socialist, just because they put "socialist" in their branding. Ridiculous I know, but hey, there's no accounting for folk.

Frankly, getting back to rpgs, there is little or no need for role playing games to be politically branded at all. At most, it's the lamest possible way of pushing any political agenda.  RaHoWa or woke, either way it's a pathetic and fairly meaningless venue for pushing any political agenda, whatever that may be.

And then some people believe they were certainly supporting socialist policies, ala Hitler's 25 point plan...

The 25-point Program of the NSDAP
1.We demand the union of all Germans to form the Greater Germany on the basis of the people's right to self-determination enjoyed by the nations.
2.We demand equality of rights for the German people in its dealings with other nations; and abolition of the peace treaties of Versailles and St. Germain.
3.We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people and colonization for our superfluous population.
4.None but members of the nation may be citizens of the state. None but those of German blood, whatever their creed may be. No Jew, therefore, may be a member of the nation.
5.Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest and must be regarded as being subject to foreign laws.
6.The right of voting on the state's government and legislation is to be enjoyed by the citizen of the state alone. We demand therefore that all official appointments, of whatever kind, shall be granted to citizens of the state alone. We oppose the corrupting custom of parliament of filling posts merely with a view to party considerations, and without reference to character or capability.
7.We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to nourish the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) must be excluded from the Reich.
8.All immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since 2 August 1914, be required immediately to leave the Reich.
9.All citizens of the state shall be equal as regards rights and obligations.
10.The first obligation of every citizen must be to productively work mentally or physically. The activity of individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but must proceed within the framework of the whole for the benefit for the general good. We demand therefore:
11.Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
12.In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice of life and property that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment due to a war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. Therefore, we demand ruthless confiscation of all war profits.
13.We demand nationalization of all businesses which have been up to the present formed into companies (trusts).
14.We demand that the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out.
15.We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
16.We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.
17.We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
18.We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
19.We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.
20.The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the state must be striven for by the school [Staatsbürgerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the state of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
21.The state is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
22.We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.
23.We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that: a. All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race;b. Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the state to be published. They may not be printed in the German language;c. Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications or any influence on them and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.
24.We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: "The good of the community before the good of the individual".[13] ("GEMEINNUTZ GEHT VOR EIGENNUTZ" [all caps in original])[14]
25.For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.

Quote from: shuddemell;1144869And then some people believe they were certainly supporting socialist policies, ala Hitler's 25 point plan...

The 25-point Program of the NSDAP
1.We demand the union of all Germans to form the Greater Germany on the basis of the people's right to self-determination enjoyed by the nations.
2.We demand equality of rights for the German people in its dealings with other nations; and abolition of the peace treaties of Versailles and St. Germain.
3.We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people and colonization for our superfluous population.
4.None but members of the nation may be citizens of the state. None but those of German blood, whatever their creed may be. No Jew, therefore, may be a member of the nation.
5.Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest and must be regarded as being subject to foreign laws.
6.The right of voting on the state's government and legislation is to be enjoyed by the citizen of the state alone. We demand therefore that all official appointments, of whatever kind, shall be granted to citizens of the state alone. We oppose the corrupting custom of parliament of filling posts merely with a view to party considerations, and without reference to character or capability.
7.We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to nourish the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) must be excluded from the Reich.
8.All immigration of non-Germans must be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since 2 August 1914, be required immediately to leave the Reich.
9.All citizens of the state shall be equal as regards rights and obligations.
10.The first obligation of every citizen must be to productively work mentally or physically. The activity of individual may not clash with the interests of the whole, but must proceed within the framework of the whole for the benefit for the general good. We demand therefore:
11.Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of debt (interest)-slavery.
12.In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice of life and property that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment due to a war must be regarded as a crime against the nation. Therefore, we demand ruthless confiscation of all war profits.
13.We demand nationalization of all businesses which have been up to the present formed into companies (trusts).
14.We demand that the profits from wholesale trade shall be shared out.
15.We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
16.We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.
17.We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
18.We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, profiteers and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
19.We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.
20.The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the state must be striven for by the school [Staatsbürgerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the state of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
21.The state is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
22.We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.
23.We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that: a. All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race;b. Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the state to be published. They may not be printed in the German language;c. Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications or any influence on them and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.
24.We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: "The good of the community before the good of the individual".[13] ("GEMEINNUTZ GEHT VOR EIGENNUTZ" [all caps in original])[14]
25.For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.

I could respond, but this is not an rpg topic. Perhaps you should start a thread in the subforum.

Respond here if you would like. https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?42468-Yes-SJWs-ARE-Fascists/page8

Quote from: Shasarak;1144459I guess the original wokeness was DnD 2nd edition.

Nope, that was iteration x as thered been at least 3 prior. This has been going cyclic every20 years since at least 1910.

Quote from: Omega;1144953Nope, that was iteration x as thered been at least 3 prior. This has been going cyclic every20 years since at least 1910.

The 1910 DnD was my favourite.