I am NOT the kind of gamer that generally gets upset by gaming related stuff, even if it is in poor taste or offensive but this one has my panties in a wad. It looks like Dungeons Deep, the next set of prepainted Pathfinder Miniatures, is going to have a miniature called a 'Pickled Punk'.  So what you say?

Well, if you want to know the real world origins of this term, check out THIS Wikipedia article. What it doesn't say is that most modern examples came from the stillborn or aborted remains of the children of African-American mothers.

Poor taste indeed.

It's a game about killing and looting and this bugs you?

And shouldn't you be posting your displeasure over on RPG.net so they can work themselves into a lather?

I'm guessing this is based on a monster?  Is the monster entry racist? Or perhaps they ignored the racist elements to pull on some fear of a tale or legend to create a horrible monster?

There are hundreds of creatures in D&D lore derived or inspired by legends from various cultures across the world.

So, how is a Banshee any less or more racist than the Pickled Punk? The Banshee arguably shows one of the most horrifying examples of ghosts from Irish legend. Was the Banshee always portrayed as such in Irish legend?

What about modern horror movies? The Japanese version of the Ghost Story scares the piss out of me. You're cursed, you die. Period. NO way out. The Grudge is a scary concept. Do you feel the American movies are disrespectful or racist of Japanese culture?

Look. You could say that including creatures based on legends and myths of a culture is an inclusive endeavor. Otherwise we get the opposite. You can't include ANY legend or myth outside your own cultural upbringing otherwise you're a racist. Which is absurd. It's the same stereotyping that pervades anti-gay culture. Oh, you like purple? You're gay. You like Barbara Streisand and musicals? You're gay.

No. If you are a man and you prefer sex with men, you're gay.

If you hate people not of your race, you're racist.

Pretending that a monster created from an aborted fetus is scary as shit and then trying to either a) defeat it in combat or b) run for your life is decidedly NOT racist.

Maybe we should stop trying to WITCH HUNT with our pretend psychic super FBI profiling techniques and instead base our decisions of how to relate to a person based on actual human interaction? I know. Crazy.

Here I was thinking the Internet was going to be a great revolution and instead we just cast a fucking spell and turned the world into a goddamn Muarey Povich show. The fact I actually typed his name correctly BEFORE looking it up clearly shows I somehow am part of the problem. Fuck. Me.

That's actually kind of funny considering how much Paizo is like "look how socially progressive we are: we have so many openly gay, bi, trans and non-white characters! See? SEE?" and then they have an aborted fetus monster toy figurine for PCs to murder.

EDIT: not passing judgment, or anything. It's just funny.

Never heard the term until today.  The article you reference gives the origin as a carny term and not a reference to black women's aborted fetuses.  In fact, despite you saying the modern understanding is racial, you don't point to anything that this is so.  Finally, for a company (Paizo) that bends over backwards to not offend any minority groups, you've got a high mountain to climb to show that this is intentional on Paizo's part.

Never heard the term before today either. A few google searches on Pickled Punk and African Amerian or Black Babies isn't bringing up anything to corroborate. Got a source on that?

The tale of Mme Colombe Chatri the "Stone-Child of Sens" is kind of creepy. And it is owned by M. Estienne Carteron, a wealthy Paris goldsmith, so my Honor+Intrigue players could see it. I'm sure there is something sufficiently horrible that can be derived from that information.

I got an adventure hook so surprisingly this thread was not just a colossal waste of everyone's time.

You should probably not play RPG's, where bad things can happen in the fantasy worlds of people's imaginations.

Quote from: Ratman_tf;830965Never heard the term before today either. A few google searches on Pickled Punk and African Amerian or Black Babies isn't bringing up anything to corroborate. Got a source on that?

Only personal experience. I am friends with someone that worked in the biology lab of a university in the South. Almost all of their 'pickled punks' came from African-American origins. It was common knowledge that this was the way these fetuses were obtained in the early 20th century.

April 1st called. It wants its stupid back.

Yes. It is an obscure carny term for the things.

No. It is not racist as they come from all manner of sources including medical anomalies collections. Disrespectful? Yes. Racist? Dont be a moron. We are talking about carnies here were they came up with any number of terms and gimmics to deceive and shock the rubes.

Quote from: Omega;830975April 1st called. It wants its stupid back.

Yes. It is an obscure carny term for the things.

No. It is not racist as they come from all manner of sources including medical anomalies collections. Disrespectful? Yes. Racist? Dont be a moron. We are talking about carnies here were they came up with any number of terms and gimmics to deceive and shock the rubes.

I NEVER said the term was racist, I said it was in POOR TASTE. I still contend that naming a monster after a carny slang term for a preserved dead baby is not the best marketing idea in the world.

I can find better things to feel outraged about than a miniature.

Quote from: AnthonyRoberson;830976I NEVER said the term was racist, I said it was in POOR TASTE. I still contend that naming a monster after a carny slang term for a preserved dead baby is not the best marketing idea in the world.

That I agree on. Personally I'd call them Stone Children. It is a term I am all too familiar with unfortunately.

Pickled Punk is too joke feeling. Not to mention I was expecting a drunken punk rocker mini.

Quote from: AnthonyRoberson;830976I NEVER said the term was racist, I said it was in POOR TASTE. I still contend that naming a monster after a carny slang term for a preserved dead baby is not the best marketing idea in the world.

Well if that's all that is bothering you, call it a lithopedion, the actual medical term for a calcified fetus.

The down side is that calling it a lithopedion makes the stone fetus monster seem like it is of Greek origin which may or may not fit your campaign setting.

Quote from: AnthonyRoberson;830974Only personal experience. I am friends with someone that worked in the biology lab of a university in the South. Almost all of their 'pickled punks' came from African-American origins. It was common knowledge that this was the way these fetuses were obtained in the early 20th century.

QuotePickled punks is the carny term for human fetuses preserved in jars of formaldehyde and used as sideshow attractions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickled_punks

I'm just trying to get this straight. Are you saying that the biology lab was a carnival attraction? Or that they used carny terminology in the lab? Or is wiki incorrect?