Quote from: Wisithir on March 13, 2024, 10:21:45 PM
It makes perfect sense that rule heavy games might as well lean into VTT automation for ease of play. Conversely, meat-space games aught not lean much to rules-lite as there are plenty of annoyances that end up contributing to a better macro experience.  Polishing out all the "players complain about it" rough spots does not leave much of a game.

Rather, they should be rules light, since annoyances make the experience worse by definition, and removing them doesn't remove the game.

Quote from: Silverblade on March 24, 2024, 07:07:41 PM
Technology is accelerating our isolation

This is one area AI is undoubtedly harmful.

Ironic how information technology does more to isolate us than bring us together. It's deeply depressing.

"It's like a video game!" has long been a curse uttered by tabletop gamers.  It got brought out against 4e, I remember all the, "It's World of Warcraft!" back then even though it was not remotely like World of Warcraft.  As they stand now, VTTs have basically zilch to do with video games.  Some setups you can click on the button for your +1 dagger and it rolls the attack and damage dice, but that does nothing outside of what already happens at a table when you sit there and roll those dice.  Everything is still in the hands of the GM to arbitrate.  There's also an increase in theatre of the mind setups that I've seen, where instead of battlemats the GM is just putting up a picture of a scene and eschewing the whole tactical combat part.  A future may certainly come where products come out with pre-baked or procedurally generated adventures and run themselves like a video game, but that is not the state of things today and there's no reason to believe that it will overtake human GMs.  I enjoy video game RPGs well enough, but even the best-designed ones can't give the freedom of options that you have when dealing with humans.

The question positions VTTs vs Live Play, but for me there are two distinctions there: Live vs Remote, and Battlemat vs ToTM.

I personally prefer Live Play immensely, and don't even feel that remote play is quite the same activity. Like others, I have enjoyed remote play when no live game was available (which is rare for me, because I tend to put my effort into creating games and teaching players, moreso than finding games with existing players).

But I don't use a battlemat for either live or remote play, and VTT's are just remote battlemats (along with mechanical tools to replace hands, which all my players have at least one of, or some reasonable working substitute).

Sure, I've drawn a scene on Owlbear Rodeo to illustrate something, but I've also done the same just as effectively on any ol' digital whiteboard, or even just a piece of paper held up to the camera. I wouldn't call that "using a VTT".

I have seen people making comparisons between using a VTT and playing an MMO.  You may as well just play an MMO and such.  As someone who has played several MMOs and spent thousands of hours running games on a VTT, these two things are almost nothing alike.  The similarities are very superficial.  They both involve computers and have graphics.  The way they play is nothing alike.

Do any vet have map drawing tools or do you import/buy maps for all?

Quote from: Ruprecht on March 28, 2024, 06:49:50 AM
Do any vet have map drawing tools or do you import/buy maps for all?

Roll20 has very simple drawing tools.  They are pretty much useless for map making though.

Most VTTs will let a GM just start drawing on a grid if you want to do it old school, sure.  I'm personally subscribed to a couple patreon guys who do animated maps for a couple bucks a month, and there are mapping tools like Dungeon Alchemist that export into VTT formats with walls and lighting pre-configured depending on how much effort one wishes to put in.

The RPG Engine lets you make maps and miniatures like building with Lego blocks.
So, if you download a miniature or map from the Steam Workshop, you can easily edit it to meet your own story needs.
Being a fully 3D VTT, it lets you have the actual character view of what is going on around them.
Depending on how detailed a scene needs to be, it can be quick to build or long. Being able to pull premade stuff down and stick them together is very flexible.

I totally prefer live gaming, face to face; but I also understand someone doing what they have to, to make a game happen.

Quote from: Man at Arms on March 31, 2024, 04:00:06 PM
I totally prefer live gaming, face to face; but I also understand someone doing what they have to, to make a game happen.

Agreed.  I always prefer an in person game but if it was playing via  a VTT or not playing at all, I would play or run via VTT (I am running one game by VTT right now because it was easier to get players with this system.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan on March 25, 2024, 01:15:21 PM

Quote from: Silverblade on March 24, 2024, 07:07:41 PM
Technology is accelerating our isolation

This is one area AI is undoubtedly harmful.

Ironic how information technology does more to isolate us than bring us together. It's deeply depressing.

That isn't technology. That's other stuff. Our gaming group, who have become friends over the year we've been playing Traveller and doing one shots, is all over the world. (The UK, Canada, and both US coasts, and us in the middle are "all over the world, right?) It wouldn't be possible without that technology.

Quote from: Greentongue on March 29, 2024, 02:40:20 PM
The RPG Engine lets you make maps and miniatures like building with Lego blocks.
So, if you download a miniature or map from the Steam Workshop, you can easily edit it to meet your own story needs.
Being a fully 3D VTT, it lets you have the actual character view of what is going on around them.
Depending on how detailed a scene needs to be, it can be quick to build or long. Being able to pull premade stuff down and stick them together is very flexible.

At a certain point, fully 3D VTT's can devolve to video games with extra steps. It will really depend how quick making maps gets to see if 3D VTT's will really take over from the flat-map version which can be as quick to set up as anything on your home table. But even flat maps can be a bit much when you add on all the bells and whistles some VTT's have.

Even with a VTT, I like think it better to still leave some stuff to the imagination. At a certain point, just like video games, a fully 3D VTT is doing your imagination for you...

All that said, if you got a decent group; VTT RPG gaming is better than no RPG gaming. (I run our sunday group over the table, tuesday night I'm a player via VTT.)

I prefer over the table because even with a VTT you miss a lot of the non-visual cues from the group and fellow players that can really bring a session alive. No matter how good, a VTT is still an electronic filter between you and the rest fo the group.

Another thing I have seen with VTT's is that they do tend to enforce more RAW play. It's the nature of the beast as everything has to be programed in. I see that as a feature though, not a bug.  (Of course those doing ToM via various VTT solutions excepted...)

I do think that ultimately we'll see how people react to the full-on 3d VTT's as they roll out. A lot will depend on how user friendly they are, and how much they add to prep if you want to do your own thing vs the pre-made modules that will come out.

My preferred VTT map would involve a camera rig above a piece of paper I can write/draw on with an actual pen and the players see and drop their "minis" down onto if positioning becomes important.

Right now even the best ones would require me to map ahead of time and scan it in, then scale it to a grid. This runs very counter to my improvisational style (developed from decades of primarily running sandbox modern settings where globetrotting was always on the table) and makes it a real pain to run much beyond dungeon crawls or railroads if you're using the tabletop aspect.

Similarly, my ideal enemy mini is a die glued to a base with the 1 through 6 up on six identical dice. Repeat in as many colors as needed so my players can just call out Red 4 or Green 3 for their targets. This latter is at least doable via colored digital pogs.

Quote from: Chris24601 on April 01, 2024, 04:41:41 PM
My preferred VTT map would involve a camera rig above a piece of paper I can write/draw on with an actual pen and the players see and drop their "minis" down onto if positioning becomes important.
...

The original OwlBear Rodeo VTT was like that - You could choose Grey, beige green grid backgrounds, then draw on it like in ms paint with the tools right there. You also could drop tokens easy.

It was the closest I've seen to a drop it down and go VTT.

Most others I have seen tend to have more steps...