A GM I know used tables he made for creating the family background of his players character and its a disaster, Here's what he ended up with. Idea's
The illegitimate daughter of The King of Estalia, The son of The Most powerful Crime lord in The Empire, Tyrions illegitimate half human son whose in a sexual relationship with another Pc who happens to be Arachons illegitimate half elf daughter, the son of A Powerful Merchant and the son of the empires most powerful navy officer
Great, and yes I'm being sarcatic, I mean seriously? Tyrions illegitimate half human son and Archeons illegitimate half elf daughter in the same group? and the 2 are love and my mate didn't even try to convince their players to reroll those results
It isn't a matter of if things will go wrong for this group its a matter of when things will go wrong for this group
Oh hell within the last 200 seconds I've read A E-Mail and things have gotten a lot worse, how?, the son of The most powerful naval officer in the empire is adopted, he's Kastor Lieberungs lost at birth identical twin brother and Karl-Heinz-Wasmeiers his godfather
I don't like the concept of such high born player characters, standing behind every tree.
One of them should be the former town piss boy, just to help anchor the party of player characters to a bit of reality.
You don't survive because you're a hero, you're a hero because you survive.
This is the key difference between old school play and current play. And the original post shows why old school is better. As Syndrome said in The Incredibles: if everyone is special then nobody is special. So just have everyone start out as dorks and then earn success by a combination of wits and luck, it's much more rewarding and interesting in play than the confused clusterfuck offered by the original post.
3d6 down the line, choose a class, buy your gear, start play. You don't even need a name until you survive your first combat.
Low born PCs only for WFRP.
I admit I'd be tempted to let this play out just to watch the dumpster fire unfold.
Quote from: Jam The MF on August 28, 2022, 10:59:22 PM
I don't like the concept of such high born player characters, standing behind every tree.
One of them should be the former town piss boy, just to help anchor the party of player characters to a bit of reality.
Works if their being all in the same area is not a coincidence. Otherwise yeah can be an issue. Fantasy Wargaming had that issue too but for all its many faults at least addressed it. Badly, but addressed it. It also made clear that the commoners in the party are fucked and their life is going to be miserable because the DM is told to take over the PCs and make them fight and squabble if they are getting along too much. No. Really.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on August 29, 2022, 08:21:23 AM
I admit I'd be tempted to let this play out just to watch the dumpster fire unfold.
It can work. But it reads more like a bad Traveller session. 8)
OA handled this stuff so much better and without the, ahem, breedin problens. ahem.
Quote from: Rob Necronomicon on August 29, 2022, 07:42:08 AM
Low born PCs only for WFRP.
Oh, I don't mind a noble PC. Granted, not to the levels the OP discussed, but minor noble scions (especially landless ones) can be a great fit for a WFRP party.
Is this a newer GM? It feels like he's just a little too much of a fan of the setting, and wants to tie his PCs to the things he thinks are cool. Rookie mistake, but not an uncommon one.
Personally, I'm actually a little more sympathetic than some people here. I find WFRP's insistence that everyone who isn't a decadent, inbred noble has to be poor, illiterate, and constantly covered in mud to be a more than a little bit silly. The Old World setting, and particularly the Empire, is clearly based on a late Renaissance to Early Modern period of history. That means that people in the setting should be, on average, more educated and affluent than they would be in a medieval setting. I use this example a lot, but in WFRP 4th edition, a character who starts as a bounty hunter has no way of obtaining literacy, meaning that they can't even read bounty notices or warrants. It's just idiotic.
All that said, this really isn't the solution. Common people having to face the horrors of the Old World is pretty central to the identity of WFRP. There's probably no game (other than possibly DCC) where a party of all privileged scions of important characters would run more thoroughly counter to the spirit of the game.
Quote from: ForgottenF on August 29, 2022, 03:57:51 PM
I use this example a lot, but in WFRP 4th edition, a character who starts as a bounty hunter has no way of obtaining literacy, meaning that they can't even read bounty notices or warrants. It's just idiotic.
The Unusual Learning Endeavour would allow this. It's also possible that a character starting as Bounty Hunter gained Read/Write as one of their starting Random Talents (if human or halfling) or from their racial options (if dwarf or either type of elf).
Quote from: HappyDaze on August 29, 2022, 08:16:26 PM
Quote from: ForgottenF on August 29, 2022, 03:57:51 PM
I use this example a lot, but in WFRP 4th edition, a character who starts as a bounty hunter has no way of obtaining literacy, meaning that they can't even read bounty notices or warrants. It's just idiotic.
The Unusual Learning Endeavour would allow this. It's also possible that a character starting as Bounty Hunter gained Read/Write as one of their starting Random Talents (if human or halfling) or from their racial options (if dwarf or either type of elf).
Alright, point taken.
I still say it ought to be standard for the profession, though. The game is full of professions where a some degree of literacy would be as-near-as-makes-no-difference necessary to do their jobs, and which don't have Read/Write as an available talent.
It would be less of an issue if the game had levels of literacy. Maybe this is just bad experience, but the one WFRP game I was in, the GM ran it that if you didn't have the Read/Write talent, you couldn't even read a road sign. That'd be one thing if the setting was Iron Age Britain, but I have a hard time believing that in a society as advanced and bureaucratic as the Empire is supposed to be, that anyone other than a rural peasant would be without a base level of practical literacy.
Quotebut I have a hard time believing that in a society as advanced and bureaucratic as the Empire is supposed to be,
That's the thing - Empire is not such thing. Empire is like feudal empire with pinches of Reneissance in big cities, but disadvantaged by large swaths of dangerous wilderness it is very slow to reclaim for civlisation. Altdorf may have some serioue buerocracy - that's about it.
It sounds like the GM rolled too many times.
You really only need a who, what they did, and why they did it.
Then you get stuck in and fix it. Or more often your players go somewhere off script and it all goes to waste. That's a good enough reason to never develop scenarios too complex.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on August 28, 2022, 11:14:41 PM
You don't survive because you're a hero, you're a hero because you survive.
A few years ago I asked if any system out there had a "background" mechanic where your background is slowly revealed through play. Kinda like how Luke Skywalker learns that his father was a Jedi but then later learns that he was actually Darth Vader.
Kingdom Come Deliverance is actually a really good example of what I'm thinking.
This way you aren't rolling up lots of hidden noble type characters, but some of the characters that make it to high level turn out to do have done so because of some as yet unknown aspect of their past.
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on August 28, 2022, 11:14:41 PM
You don't survive because you're a hero, you're a hero because you survive.
This is the key difference between old school play and current play. And the original post shows why old school is better. As Syndrome said in The Incredibles: if everyone is special then nobody is special. So just have everyone start out as dorks and then earn success by a combination of wits and luck, it's much more rewarding and interesting in play than the confused clusterfuck offered by the original post.
3d6 down the line, choose a class, buy your gear, start play. You don't even need a name until you survive your first combat.
"You're no hero."
- first line on the outside of the back cover of the DCC rulebook
Quote from: Kyle Aaron on August 28, 2022, 11:14:41 PM
You don't survive because you're a hero, you're a hero because you survive.
This summed it up perfectly! 8)