Once upon a time, when preparing an adventure (BECMI rules), I had the idea of kobold warriors riding goats. The problem is that there are no goats in the "Basic" edition, not even in the Creature Catalog that I just purchased.

1e has the "giant goat", which I could use, I suppose.

In mild curiosity, I checked the other editions. 2e doesn't have goats. The 3e SRD has no mention of them. The only goat in 4e is a statuette that can be pokemoned into a real goat. There is a 5e goat, though, if this D&DBeyond page can be trusted: https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/goat

Doesn't solve my problem, though, since I am using BECMI. Is there a guide for creating monsters, somewhere?

In any case, changing subjects, I am happy, so far, with my Creature catalog purchase, since it has two monsters I was needing: the Crone of Chaos and the Lesser Haint, er, Haunt.

My adventure will begin with a 4e-style skill challenge, where the PCs navigate their way down a river to a swamp town, where they will (hopefully, eventually) decide to investigate an abandoned manor house (I am mapping it out using the Hunt-Phelan home in Memphis, TN as inspiration). I intend for a Southern Gothic feel, with alligators (crocodiles) in the rivers and haunts in the cemetery and Spanish moss hanging from the trees. There is probably a swamp dragon lurking in one of the bayous.

A lot of the ordinary animals missing from 1e's MM showed up in the MM2. Here's the goat:

Goat (L 2): #AP 5d4, %Lair nil, AC 7, MV 15, HD 1+2, #AT 1, D 1d3, SA charge, I animal, AL N, SZ M, TT nil, XP 24 + 2/hp. Habitat is scrub growth on hills, plains, and mountains. Buck goats may charge, gaining +2 to hit and +1d2 damage. A herd is 1d2 bucks and up to 12 does, and the remainder are kids (noncombatants).

Quote from: Pat on January 28, 2022, 02:11:50 PM
A lot of the ordinary animals missing from 1e's MM showed up in the MM2. Here's the goat:

Goat (L 2): #AP 5d4, %Lair nil, AC 7, MV 15, HD 1+2, #AT 1, D 1d3, SA charge, I animal, AL N, SZ M, TT nil, XP 24 + 2/hp. Habitat is scrub growth on hills, plains, and mountains. Buck goats may charge, gaining +2 to hit and +1d2 damage. A herd is 1d2 bucks and up to 12 does, and the remainder are kids (noncombatants).

Thanks!

And B/X does have goats, it's just they're one of the many animals lumped together in the antelope/herd animal entry. Stats:

Goat: AC 7, HD 1 or 2, MV 24, AT 1 butt (only males), D probably 1d4, #AP 0 (3d10), SV F1, ML 5, TT nil, AL N. If there are 2+, then there is 1 male per 4 animals, with the remainder being females and young. Females and young flee, young have 1/2 the normal hp, and males have +1d4 hp and a butt attack.

Easy enough to combine with the AD&D entry, which has more details but is missing a few B/X stats like morale.

I see it, there, now. Thanks for the help.

Time for the Kobold Knights of Swampshire to mount up and defend their Chaos Crone patroness.

Why is there a Devil Swine, but not a Demon Goat, though?

Why can't I be satisfied with the monsters available to me?

Some critters might be under familiars. Pathfinder (1E) lists them there.

QuoteGOAT CR 1/3

XP 135

N Small animal

Init +1; Senses low-light vision; Perception +0

DEFENSE

AC 13, touch 12, flat-footed 12 (+1 Dex, +1 natural, +1 size)

hp 5 (1d8+1)

Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +0

OFFENSE

Speed 30 ft.

Melee gore +2 (1d4+1)

STATISTICS

Str 12, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 5

Base Atk +0; CMB +0; CMD 11 (15 vs. trip)

Feats Nimble Moves

Skills Acrobatics +1 (+5 when jumping), Climb +5, Survival +0 (+4 to find food); Racial Modifiers +4 Acrobatics when jumping, +4 Survival to find food

ECOLOGY

Environment any

Organization solitary, pair, or herd (3–12)

Treasure none

Devil swine are one of my favorite monsters from B/X. They're not just fun in themselves, but it felt like they could be part of a potential break from the AD&D traditions. Because in AD&D, lycanthropes are mid-level monsters, with no significant higher level examples (weresharks don't count), and a heavy focus on infection and uncontrollable transformations. But devil swine are top-tier monsters in B/X, their 9 HD completely eclipsing even the 6 HD werebear, and putting them on par with the more powerful dragons. And they're not infectious or uncontrolled, and in fact have magical powers (that mighty charm) that make it easy for them to integrate and act as a clan of hidden boss monsters.

I always wanted to make equivalents for the other baseline lycanthropes (since a swine is a boar), like diabolic wolves and fiendish cats. But there's no real connection between wereboars and devil swine, so there's no reason to limit the devil lycanthropes to just those base types. And a goat is an excellent pick, because they're know to be stubborn gluttons with creepy eyes, and that would work well as a reflection of primal urges and sins among humans. I'd give then a half-form, similar to a monstrous satyr. Probably 7 or 8 HD. Not sure what magical powers to give them.

It think it's worth considering why Gary Gygax left goats out of D&D in the first place. This was not an omission of neglect but rather gives us insight into the nature of fantasy worlds & roleplaying generally.

It's telling that every edition of D&D has skirted around the Goat Problem (or "GP") up until 5th edition. We can tell by how 5E has discarded this essential setting & mechanics issue that WotC has completely lost the plot on the beating heart of fantasy worldbuilding & good RPG design.

Mutant Future, an OSR game inspired by Gamma World, has spidergoats. They're goats. They're spiders. They have eight legs and can scurry along on walls and ceilings. They spin webs, they gore you with their horns, they poison you with their bite, and they kick you with their hooves. Oh, they also poison you with their horns.

Quote from: Zelen on January 28, 2022, 03:11:57 PMWotC has completely lost the plot on the bleating heart of fantasy worldbuilding & good RPG design.

Fixed that oversight for you. heh-heh.

But yeah as others pointed out the goat is squirreled away under the Antelope entry in X of BX. Very easy to miss.

AD&D 2e PHB, 1989. p. 90. Under "Money & Equipment -- Animals."
AD&D 2e MM, 1989. p. 241. Under "Mammals."

Mounted combat rules (suggestions).
AD&D 2e DMG, 1989. p. 105. Under "Combat -- Unusual Combat Conditions."

I'm sure there is more nestled elsewhere, too. Have fun!

Almost certainly some in modules. Cant think of any right off. But odds are there are.

This is true of alot of critters and showed off D&D's versatility and lack of need for a stat block for every damn instance. Some stated right in the text. Some just suggestions on how to reskin something close to get what you need.

Need a small dog but theres no stats for one? Use a cat and rename the attacks or whatever.

Quote from: cavalier973 on January 28, 2022, 02:31:04 PM
Why is there a Devil Swine, but not a Demon Goat, though?

Why can't I be satisfied with the monsters available to me?

Well, there's a Hell Sheep, classified as a Baa-tezu...

Quote from: Zelen on January 28, 2022, 03:11:57 PM
It think it's worth considering why Gary Gygax left goats out of D&D in the first place. This was not an omission of neglect but rather gives us insight into the nature of fantasy worlds & roleplaying generally.

It's telling that every edition of D&D has skirted around the Goat Problem (or "GP") up until 5th edition. We can tell by how 5E has discarded this essential setting & mechanics issue that WotC has completely lost the plot on the beating heart of fantasy worldbuilding & good RPG design.

Uh, can you clarify this?