Quote from: RPGPundit;350541Reading this thread has served to remind me just how much ALL mmorpgs suck compared to real RPGs.

RPGPundit

I would agree, but there's quite a bit of difference between some that are more like virtual worlds and those that are more like WoW with instanced encounters, and neither really emulate tabletop well.

The virtual worlds are the ones that interest me most, though, because in games like EVE you have a working economy and player-driven corporate warfare.  It's one of the only games I know of where a player was able to cause thousands of real-world dollars of damage to a corporation's assets due to months of careful espionage and infiltration.  

It might work out a little slow and boring for some people, but I still find it cool to see how local economies develop and politics play out.

The thing I liked about EvE was that I got a lot of reading, cooking, cleaning and general maintenance done around the house while traveling from point A to B, or while waiting for something to happen, or while waiting for my sundry cohorts to just do something. And when things did happen it always cost even more time and money and gradually I realized I was playing a game that cleverly simulated ordinary life and its risks a bit too much for my tastes.

I spent about three hours playing Everquest many years ago, and after deciding that life was not worth the agony of throwing time in to killing the Super Bat for its wings that a team of us could barely accomplish (who knows, maybe we were doing it wrong) I moved on.

WoW was the first MMO that actually made the process fun and relaxing all at once (well, until end game when the raiders, pvpers and general lifers all take over and lose track of reality from game time). I found DDO to be fun until around level 4-6 when it began to feel less like high adventure and more like mopping floors over and over again.

Really hard to appreciate MMOs when you've sampled the ambrosia of tabletop gaming...

QuoteReally hard to appreciate MMOs when you've sampled the ambrosia of tabletop gaming...

I just don't see them as remotely similar experiences.

In fact, I used to play both WoW and D&D!

*gasp*

Amazing, isn't it?

Quote from: J Arcane;350917I just don't see them as remotely similar experiences.

In fact, I used to play both WoW and D&D!

*gasp*

Amazing, isn't it?

Hey, me too!!!!

But that said, if I had a choice of playing D&D tonight over WoW, I'd do so in an instant. I know people who deride my love of D&D while playing WoW obsessively. Irony does not even begin to describe it!

EDIT: Correction, I play both of them now; I missed the "used to" context of your sentence. Oopsie

If anyone still has WoW installed, I'd be game to get together on a server and form a little "putter around" group for awhile. My problem with most MMOs is a definite case of altaholism, and the fact that I don't really like having to beg to get a group together to go do stuff. That's not very "RPG"-like, in my estimation. As a result, I tend to spend my time solo, and miss out on a lot of the content. I actually haven't even played WoW in a couple of months, but its still there, tickling in the back of my head.

I REALLY wish they hadn't fucked around with SWG...

Quote from: Werekoala;350922If anyone still has WoW installed, I'd be game to get together on a server and form a little "putter around" group for awhile. My problem with most MMOs is a definite case of altaholism, and the fact that I don't really like having to beg to get a group together to go do stuff. That's not very "RPG"-like, in my estimation. As a result, I tend to spend my time solo, and miss out on a lot of the content. I actually haven't even played WoW in a couple of months, but its still there, tickling in the back of my head.

I REALLY wish they hadn't fucked around with SWG...

WOW released v3.3 a few weeks ago. One of the improvements is a new group interface for making dungeon and raid groups, with plenty of incentives to use it, and having used it I find it worth the hassle.  Not a perfect fix, but good for now; only overland group quests remain a hassle now.

So is that a no?  QQ

Quote from: Werekoala;351126So is that a no?  QQ

I'm on once a week, on average, so what time I have goes to my guild.

Quote from: Werekoala;351126So is that a no?  QQ

I only play for the expansions now.  Buy a new expansion, play for a month, beat all the quests, then cancel until the next one.

Cataclysm might last a bit longer if the hype about the old world revamp lives up to it's promise, but I won't be playing again before then.

I play very inconsistently... I'll go on benders and play every night for a week... then not touch it for a month. It just depends on what else is going on.
The friend who got me started hasn't been playing lately so I've kind of been out of it also.
But if someone here started a meetup I'd go...

I <3 DDO
 
DDO is alot of fun. The basic stuff is basic but it really opens up past level six or so. I play a Cleric so I get to group with higher-level parties that are desperate for heals, but around Cleric level 6 the archetechture really opens up as I get to explore level 10+ dungeons.
 
The ruins of giant strongholds are convincingly massive and ancient. Impossibly deep dungeons punctuated by free falls into forrests of colossal luminessant mushrooms are convincingly subterrainian. There's a sense of dread, of wonder, of exploration that is tremendously fun.
 
I also like the tactical implications of fighting in a 3d space. It's something that I haven't seen much of in tabletop play, and I'm excited to import it. Not that it's unheard of in table top play to have say, a deep cistern or a fortified tower or a narrow ledge but I can't ever remember a tabletop game where they are a consistant theme.
 
Re: Old school
 
DDO has lethal traps. The 'saving throw' is generaly a spot check to get a bad feeling or a search check just 'cause something doesn't seem right. In early levels you do ok just staying behind the rogue, but later on there are traps that drop walls and spring ambushes. It's deadly to have that happen to a rogue that's too far ahead. In theory you could just memorize it all and not need a spot check but in practice plenty of people forget and die anyway.
 
DDO also has 'wandering monsters' in the sense that you don't get any reward for killing the random monsters that are waltzing about. It's old school in the sense that you have to get through the Treasure-lite and xp-lite riff-raff to grab the real treasure and real xp. Personaly I'd like to see more monsters that are best to avoid rather than fight. In practice the only ones that get left behind are snipers in protected locations, monsters in optional quests and the occasional slime.
 
DDO has easy and free resurection available to all but certain dungeons can't be re-entered. So even though you can continualy rez and re-enter low level dungeons it doesn't work for everything. That's an especially tough restriction when you consider the previous point about all the treasure and xp for the whole quest being wrapped up in the finale. I've been in several games where we get a TPK on the threshold of victory and sure we can res out but we get nothing for all our effort.

Quote from: J Arcane;350614Have you done Wrath of the Lich King yet?  I felt the storyline in that was actually quite well done and quite well presented.  It's the most fun I've had in WoW since the original, certainly better than BC, and even better than original WoW really.

Of course, then you hit cap and it's back to raid or quit again, but I've solved that by simply taking the latter option.

Same here. I got so sick of running dailies and looking for Nax and Ulduar raids I can still puke if I think about it too much. Even the Argent Tourny dailies are boring now. Ugh.

Quote from: PaladinCA;350633Everquest was a tough game.

Recovery of one's corpse could consume an entire day if you died in a really bad spot. I'm not saying that this was good or bad but it certainly was tough.

At least the game was challenging and character death had real consequences. I didn't get much past level 30 on most characters. I got bored easily beyond the thirty mark and I had no desire to poop into a sock.

I got my druid to 50, but didn't have much interest beyond that.... I enjoyed my mage, but I was so spoiled by how fast my druid could travel I couldn't get him past 41, just burned out. Man, does this bring back memories though, of CRs and runnig through West Karana and getting beat down by the Hill Giant there cuz I didn't see it until too late. Then there was hanging out in the Maze, or how creepy Befallen was, or Unrest... Mistmoore.... man that game was fun.

P.S. Oh yeah, ya'all remember getting bitch slapped by the Brownie Scout in Lesser Faydark... fuck I hated that guy, it was the coolest ever the day I soloed his little ass.

Quote from: Simlasa;350726Yes, and you're right, some really good story going on there... the whole Northrend area is really well done... but not quite as fun to explore as the classic areas... I'm still running across stuff in Kalimdor/Eastern Kingdoms that I've never seen before, odd little areas... 'hidden' quests. Somehow there just feels like there is a lot more 'depth' to the old areas and instances, it might be a facade but it's one that's convincing to me.
I think part of it is that the old areas are a bit more... romantic. Not sure if that's the word... but all the elf and dwarf ruins jutting up out of the earth... the feeling of buried/lost history... this ponderous sorrow hanging over so much of it. I definitely don't get much of that feeling in the BC or LK content.

And raiding, while it was enjoyable in it's own way... well, that's another game really... and a lot of that endgame upkeep begins to feel a lot like work rather than fun.

In that way it's similar to some tabletop RPGs I've played where the need for more content... supplements/splatbooks begin to water down/change the elements that drew me to the game to begin with. Usually I'd just stop buying the new material... but with an MMO the setting evolves around you whether you like it or not.

Better get to enjoying that Old World stuff now, cuz Cataclysm is gonna wipe it all out.

How is DDO for soloing? I enjoy soloing and I don't like to be forced to search for groups if I only have a short time to play at that time.