The "vancian" magic system of standard D&D is not without its benefits, but for a broader type of fantasy could there be a magic resolution system that would be more broadly functional and better emulate the western tradition of myth?

Heresy. Everything about the baseline 0D&D system was perfect up until a bunch of assholes ruined it for no reason except they wanted some storygaming/snowflake/munchkin/powergamer/SJW experience!
There is no reason to change or advance anything in the system because its perfect. And anybody who disagrees is just some wuss.

Except whatever you make pundit. That stuff must be good.

I do likes me some TORG magic system but that's a stretch to paste into D&D.

Another option is the "oldey tyme" Advanced Players Guide from SSS for 3e.  Magic using mana points. Magic using crits and fumbles. Magic as a skill. Gemcasters. Spellcasting resulting in physical fatigue. Animism. Geomancy. Aethercraft. Soulcasting.

I don't know that it is a perfect execution, but the creativity and inspiration starts flowing when I read this book - it might be a good start point to adapt from...

Of course, I use the terms creativity and inspiration - in the 3.x era, this was common.  Lots of 3PP material, lots of free fan material (such as Steve's Spell Sheets, for example.)

This level of creativity and inspiration is woefully absent from the 5e and PF2 "communities" who seem to be more focused on being offended by words that no one cares about to begin with.

Maybe break spells down into Range/Effect/Duration with each stage costing magic points and requiring a roll (based on how many magic points you pour into it). For instance a magic missile:

Range 10' per MP (Magic Point)
Effect 1D4 for 3MP, 1D6 for 5MP, 1D8 for 7MP, 1D10 for 9MP, 1D12 for 11MP
Duration 1 point for one missile to float around (and be ready to fire) for one minute. +1MP per minute.

So let's say Merrlynn the Miraculous casts a Magic Missile with Range 50', 1D8 damage and it floats around him ready to fire for 2 minutes. That's 5MP for range, 7MP for damage and 2MP for duration.

Use whatever mechanic suits for resolution. Perhaps 1D20 + Int stat (so 18 int almost always succeeds) vs 1D20 + Magic Points spent. If player gets a higher total the spell works as required.

There's always Tunnels & Trolls and Runequest and Chivalry and Sorcery.  I love how that runs together

Dragonquest is from the eighties so it's disqualified as story game nonsense.  Storygame Productions International indeed

In some of the 2e Lankhmar stuff they just increased the D&D casting times.  Magic Missile's not much good if it takes ten minutes to cast. 

Can we give martials a westernized form of qi cultivation?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales on December 07, 2021, 10:08:28 AM
Can we give martials a westernized form of qi cultivation?

Why?

I'd probably do a GURPS type of thing with magic where it is not that powerful in the moment but there are good reasons for it to exist and be something to dedicate one's life to. (But no substitute for a good blaster at your side). Keep it mostly operating up at the opera level and less down at the space level.

Mostly useful for Big stuff like using it to hide a planet from a deathstar or make everyone fighting a battle fall asleep.

Still kind of useful for opening a lock or shutting down a sensor or at very high levels fooling the enemy as to where you are so their shots miss.

But it should not be anything devastating

No "instant disintegration by my will"
No fifty arm whirlwind of death telekineses

No "I stopped time so now I can take this hack saw right up to your armor..."

No " I reprogrammed your death robots in but an instant"

No " Your blood is boiling!"

None of that stuff.

Now you may be able to make a thing that does that but it should be expensive and complicated and temperamental and not work very many times or have a 7 month recharge if it does have infinite shots or it ONLY WORKS in the center point of the Donyab Valley on the Planet Keth at the beginning of the wintermist season and it needs a lot of purified neo-copper to burn etc.

Quote from: Shrieking Banshee on December 06, 2021, 08:39:08 PM
Heresy. Everything about the baseline 0D&D system was perfect up until a bunch of assholes ruined it for no reason except they wanted some storygaming/snowflake/munchkin/powergamer/SJW experience!
There is no reason to change or advance anything in the system because its perfect. And anybody who disagrees is just some wuss.

Except whatever you make pundit. That stuff must be good.

Thanks! Spread the word and share the video!

Quote from: APN on December 07, 2021, 09:13:06 AM
Maybe break spells down into Range/Effect/Duration with each stage costing magic points and requiring a roll (based on how many magic points you pour into it). For instance a magic missile:

Range 10' per MP (Magic Point)
Effect 1D4 for 3MP, 1D6 for 5MP, 1D8 for 7MP, 1D10 for 9MP, 1D12 for 11MP
Duration 1 point for one missile to float around (and be ready to fire) for one minute. +1MP per minute.

So let's say Merrlynn the Miraculous casts a Magic Missile with Range 50', 1D8 damage and it floats around him ready to fire for 2 minutes. That's 5MP for range, 7MP for damage and 2MP for duration.

Use whatever mechanic suits for resolution. Perhaps 1D20 + Int stat (so 18 int almost always succeeds) vs 1D20 + Magic Points spent. If player gets a higher total the spell works as required.

Did you watch the video? I specifically call out "mana point" mechanics as boring.

A blogger named NecroPraxis came up with a magic system years ago that I used briefly in my OD&D game (before switching back for compatibility reasons). It was a die rolling system but used a pool of dice. Each magic user had a number of d6s in his pool equal to 2+Level+Charisma Mod. These dice could be rolled to cast spells which had a target number. The maximum number of dice a player could roll at any one time was limited by his level and Int, thus effectively limiting how powerful a spell that a character could possibly cast.

The catch was the any die that came up as a 1 would be exhausted and removed from the pool. This meant that the player had a choice with each casting to determine how many dice to roll, with more dice meaning a better chance of success but also a higher chance that you'll lose dice faster.

One other thing was that wands, instead of being magical weapons, aided a wizard by allowing them to reroll 1s, 2s or 3s (depending on the power level of the wand). Thus wands became an important tool but not something that grants a specific power. And a disarmed wizard can still operate but not as efficiently. You could use the idea of wands granting re-rolls to any magic system that requires a dice roll. For example, if your system uses d20, a basic wand might allow you to reroll 1s through 4s while a powerful wand could let you reroll anything. I like using rerolls because it increases you chance of success without increasing your maximum possible roll (which is something a bonus would do).

Quote from: hedgehobbit on December 07, 2021, 09:50:34 PM
A blogger named NecroPraxis came up with a magic system years ago that I used briefly in my OD&D game (before switching back for compatibility reasons). It was a die rolling system but used a pool of dice. Each magic user had a number of d6s in his pool equal to 2+Level+Charisma Mod. These dice could be rolled to cast spells which had a target number. The maximum number of dice a player could roll at any one time was limited by his level and Int, thus effectively limiting how powerful a spell that a character could possibly cast.

The catch was the any die that came up as a 1 would be exhausted and removed from the pool. This meant that the player had a choice with each casting to determine how many dice to roll, with more dice meaning a better chance of success but also a higher chance that you'll lose dice faster.

One other thing was that wands, instead of being magical weapons, aided a wizard by allowing them to reroll 1s, 2s or 3s (depending on the power level of the wand). Thus wands became an important tool but not something that grants a specific power. And a disarmed wizard can still operate but not as efficiently. You could use the idea of wands granting re-rolls to any magic system that requires a dice roll. For example, if your system uses d20, a basic wand might allow you to reroll 1s through 4s while a powerful wand could let you reroll anything. I like using rerolls because it increases you chance of success without increasing your maximum possible roll (which is something a bonus would do).

Interesting. What was the refresh rate?

All dice after 8 hours of rest?
Dice = Level after 8 hours rest?
1 die per hour of rest?
Other?

Yeah, I'm also increasingly leaning toward a caster check type of system. Mana/magic point systems don't really make sense for clerics in most settings, because they merely channel the magical energy or call on their deities to do stuff - the clerics don't draw on their own power to perform magic.

So, how many magic systems do we have here? Let's dust for prints.

Vancian (memorize spell, spell lost when cast). Classic D&D style.

Spontaneous casting (spells cast from a pool of slots). 3E/PF sorcerers, and (to an extent) 5E casters in general.

Magic point system (all spells draw from a magic resource). Too many systems to name, really. Runequest, CoC, etc.

Skill based casting (you cast using a skill check). Shadowrun (with a side of the next item).

Fatigue based casting (spells draw on an endurance/fatigue mechanic, and can leave your PC exhausted). SR and a couple other systems.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 07, 2021, 09:17:30 PMDid you watch the video? I specifically call out "mana point" mechanics as boring.

And if you said so, it must be true!

I substitute dice rolls for games of chess. So its less boring that way.