I'm curious of what everyone here would think.

The setup:  A GM who has trouble with actually knowing  the rules of the systems he runs and gives up 1-4 sessions in to any campaign he runs is doing  a large White Wolf game because he claims to know the system and setting.

I have skipped out but some of the 40K crowd I normally play with that day are rather distasteful people and the WW game is closer and I know everyone present.

I'm allowed to bring my now retired from LARP WW character with all his XP and such into this just started campaign.  (Roughly 3x the XP the existing players have.)

As is most games' wont, the first 90 minutes are mostly eating and talking.  There are 10 people in the room, 2 not playing, 8 playing.   The start is a combat I am not involved in since I am not there yet.  (Ive spent most of the previous 90 rewriting my character since I now know the game better than I did when I made the character with help for a Con LARP that I kept playing in that group's Chronicle.)

One of the not playing people wants to go for coffee and doesn't know the area so I offer to drive since I am not involved in what little has gone on yet, and its 10 minutes away or so.

We come back and they have just finished the fight.  I settle in, and start working on the model kit I brought as to not be an attention whore character, plus while I knew everyone there, I was joining this group.  I can comfortably listen and build at the same time.  There are 7 other PCs.

Everyone is still babbling away mostly.  I'm brought in with little explanation of how or why I have showed up at the place the rest of the party is.  My PC walks in, looks about, then sits down in a chair.  He doesn't know any of the few PCs in the lounge room, and the one he does know just walked upstairs.  One PC tries pickpocketing me and then starts talking to me and then another walks in and spots her, and some RP happens.  My character obviously doesn't know WTF is going on and is wondering why the pickpocketer (who mostly wanted to know who my character was as opposed to trying to steal from me) claims to know me, while 2 other PCs are trying to RP to each other across the table while everyone else is yammering away, mostly on things that have squat to do with the game.

Some NPCs walk in, and open fire on us, and we take some damage.  The GM then walks out, probably to check on something since there was a rules question about damage, defense, and armor bits.  Everyone goes back to OT babbling while I continue to assemble my little robot model.

The GM comes back in with some Werewolf style card game and immediately hands out cards.  I (and others) are kind of wondering WTF is going on.  After the second game we start asking and he goes into his usual "I don't know the rules" spiel that sadly tends to proceed his ending every other campaign, plus adding he expected me to do more and how he didn't want to tell everyone to SHUT UP which is what I said he should be doing as everyone OT talking amongst themselves is rude.  (I hate it when I GM, and while a little of this happens in almost every group, it was really out of control.)

So we convince him to try to keep going, and we get a little fight in with the NPCs, I managing to subdue 2 of the 4 with my Kinglyness and high social skills.  The other 2 lose their weapons due to disarms, then they are magically darkclouded outside which we pursue and then the game is called for time.  Some folks have to go to work, others have had plenty of wine and are quite tipsy, others need sleep for the next day, ect.

Well it sucked but maybe it'll be better next time.

A few minutes ago, I got an email from the GM.

Here is the biggest part of it:
> Anyway, the reason for this email is because I was
> abit bothered by your lack of full attention to the game. I
> was expecting you to contribute a large part of the rp as
> you have done in previous rpg's. When I come to your
> place to game, I dont bring other gaming related stuff
> or other hobby stuff (generally. I realize I have brought
> Star Wars when I was really trying to get a grasp on things
> regarding it).
> I feel that if you really want to participate you
> should come here as I go to your place when we are seriesly
> gaming and that's prepared to spend the few hours we are
> together involved in that game.
> If you bring other stuff to X when you go
> there, that's fine, but my place isnt X.
> By no means do you have to come back, but I would like
> it if you did. I think if you come into it prepared fully
> and taking it seriously for what it is, you will see that it
> can be alot of fun.

WTF?  Am I wrong at being somewhat insulted by this?
I'm trying to be quiet and not take over the game by working on a model kit (something I can do while listening.  I fully expect it to take a couple sessions to assemble a kit I could otherwise build and paint in 1/4th the time
and will obviously not work on it when my character is doing things.) but somehow I am being bad?

Everyone else was talking and loudly and almost exclusively OT.

Was it wrong of me to be making a model kit while playing?  Was I supposed to know my character was supposed to do more and possibly be the center of attention, something I didn't want to do since there are 7 other players currently in the group?

Help me out here folks.

This is probably one of those situations where if there were (say) 4 people involved in a session, when each describes it, it's like 4 different sessions.

However, if this GM is one who always bails after 1-4 sessions, why are you there at all?

He asked me to come play, and like I mentioned, the game I normally play on wednesdays has a rather annoying little shit I can only take so much of.

So I figured I would give it a try, and have the kit to work on when others were doing there thing or in the downtime parts.  

I normally feel I talk too much, and most people say I talk too loudly so it would also keep me quiet and occupied, while giving everyone else time to shine instead of me somehow becoming party leader.

If he wanted me to do more, I wished he would have asked me ahead of time, and given me some motivation and plot hooks to do something with.

"You show up where everyone hangs out" was my setup and motivation.  

Umm..  doesn't give me much to work on.  And with 9 other people in the room, 2 of which had laptop computers with them and on (one playing, the other writing something and asking the GM questions for things I am unsure if they had anything to do with the game currently in progress..) I shouldn't be expected to carry things I don't think.

Once the fight started I thought "good, this will bring me into the group as we fight off the badguys.  I have a reason to ask the other characters what is going on and to introduce myself after the fight.  Maybe even bring up some of his backstory".

Quote from: Captain Rufus;309291Was it wrong of me to be making a model kit while playing?

Yes.

QuoteWas I supposed to know my character was supposed to do more and possibly be the center of attention, something I didn't want to do since there are 7 other players currently in the group?

No.

My subjective opinion anyway.

Quote from: Age of Fable;309309Yes.

No.

My subjective opinion anyway.

Agreed on both.

Quote from: Captain Rufus;309291Was it wrong of me to be making a model kit while playing?

I don't know how things roll in your social circle, but for my money HELL YES you were wrong to do it. Especially if it's your first session, and it's an ongoing campaign, I'd expect you to pay attention to what's going on. Nothing say to me as a GM "Hey, I actually don't give a fuck about your game" than pulling something out and fiddling with it, especially something which involves a fair bit of concentration like a modelling kit.

Now, to be fair to you the GM did leave you waiting for a while with that combat sequence; the onus was on him to make sure it wrapped up quickly and at least some of the PCs were freed up to interact with your character - or, if it really wouldn't have been appropriate to rush the combat, he should have worked out with you a reason for your character to stumble across the scene and help the PCs. (In something like Changeling it can be as simple as "hey, those guys are fellow changelings, I should help them out.") What better way for a new PC to make a big entrance and earn the party's trust than to have them lend unexpected support during a big fight?

But the fact that you deliberately brought along a modelling kit in order to distract you from the game because you were afraid of dominating it is pretty incredible to me. If I were the GM in question, I'd have assumed that you weren't really giving my game a chance to enthrall you, and since you seem to have written off this game's chances of success before signing up in the first place I think I would have been pretty justified in that.

What's more, there are 7 other players in the game. If you honestly thought you'd end up dominating the game if you didn't have something distracting you from it and limiting your interactions, you're either gaming with total wallflowers - which doesn't sound like it's the case - or you're seriously underestimating the ability of your fellow players to match your contributions to the game. Where the fuck do you get off?

QuoteWas I supposed to know my character was supposed to do more and possibly be the center of attention, something I didn't want to do since there are 7 other players currently in the group?

It's your character's introductory session, of course you're going to end up getting a heap of spotlight time by virtue of the fact that this is the session where your character gets introduced to everyone. It sounds like you were resisting spotlight-hogging to such an extreme you were effectively pushing the spotlight away when it tried to point at you, which doesn't help when part of the point of the session is to let everyone interact with your character and integrate him into the group.

Again, the GM could have done more to help here by giving you more context than you previously had - although since you were concentrating on your model for most of the first part of the game, then went away, then went back to concentrating on your model, based on your description of what happened, I'm not sure when he'd have had the opportunity to do this without delaying the game. At the same time, you always had the option of asking "hey, what's my character doing here anyway? What's my motivation?"

I get the impression from your story that at least some of the participants were trying to engage with your character but it wasn't working out - was the guy who claimed to know your PC acting on OOC knowledge, acting on IC knowledge you weren't to be expected to be aware of (say, he'd seen a photo of you which was identified as you by the PC you knew), or was he acting on IC knowledge you were expected to be aware of but didn't because you were concentrating on your model? Sure, you say that you can listen and model at the same time, but I tend to find that people (including myself) are terrible at assessing how well they can actually do that, and you do say that there was a lot of OOC chatter at the table, which only makes it more likely that you'd have missed something.

I'm sorry, dude, but your story makes you sound like a complete ass whose behaviour threw off a GM who already isn't very confident in his GMing. When you're telling your own side of the story and you still come across like a jerk, that tells me something.

I'd be insulted if you had brought a model kit to do at my table, but I also hate having people who aren't playing around too. It sounds like 'not paying attention' and having constant interruptions is how this groups rolls.

This GM needs to grow some balls, own the game system he wants to run and lead the group in one way or another. It doesn't have to be the caricature alpha male bullshit, it could be more consensual/democratic, but there's got to be someone driving the damn game. If he's annoyed by your modeling he can speak up. If nobody pays attention, he's got to capture it or inquire if people actually want to play this game or shit. This group needs to get to an agreement of what they actually want to do. If it's socializing/geeking out, fine, but be clear about it.

Yeah, if it were my game (even as a player, not a GM) and you had brought a model kit and worked on it during play I'd be pissed to say the least. In fact, I probably would have told you not to return. You may have had good intentions, but that's a big breach of etiquette on your part IMO. Flipside, I would have said so during the session (during a break or whatever; no need to berate you in front of the other players). In your defence however, this GM needs to get his shit together as well. For fucks sake, is it too much to ask to know the fucking system you are GMing?! I don't think so. And if he asked you to play he should have already had some rough ideas (at least) as to how to incorporate you. Plus it sounds like he needs to exercise a bit more control over the group as a whole. You don't have to be draconian, but the occasional "Okay guys, let's cut the chatter and pay attention for a minute here" shouldn't be that big of a deal.
Bottom line: you both were at fault to some degree or another. If you got any enjoyment whatsoever out of it though, adjust your actions, communicate with your GM, and try another session.

Just my 2 cents.

Pretty much agree with the mob.  You showed bad form in bringing a modeling kit to the table.  Now that being said.

That environment sounds like a mess to begin with.  So while you were at fault it's hardly your fault that the game sucked. It'd be akin to blaming a riot on random crowd person #73.  The GM needs to grow a pair take command of the situation and give people reasons to not want to bring a model to the table.

Furthermore 7 players is more then most people can comfortably handle and clearly way to many for this GM.  He should really think about what he wants to accomplish and set a realistic goal.  He needs to pick a system learn it and start to develop some GM chops.  Probably starting small with 3-4 players max.  This everyone in the fucking room style of play doesn't work for most people, doesn't work for most situations and certainly doesn't work for most types of games.

If he is someone you actually care to keep gaming with in any capacity you may very well be the one who needs to lay it out for him and set him straight.  You don't have to be an ass about it.  Just tell him like it is with some suggestions.  If he's mature he'll take them at value.  If he freaks out and gets his panties in a bunch then he's never going to get it.

Quote from: Captain Rufus;309291I'm curious of what everyone here would think.

The setup:  A GM who constantly fails to actually know the rules of the systems he runs and gives up 1-4 sessions in to any campaign he runs is doing  a large Changeling game because he claims to know the system and setting.

Also, there are a lot of easy systems he could learn.

Quote from: boulet;309326This GM needs to grow some balls, own the game system he wants to run and lead the group in one way or another. It doesn't have to be the caricature alpha male bullshit, it could be more consensual/democratic, but there's got to be someone driving the damn game. If he's annoyed by your modeling he can speak up. If nobody pays attention, he's got to capture it or inquire if people actually want to play this game or shit.

Very, very true. The bit in the story where he pulled out the card game and started playing that with people instead of trying to GM sounds like it might be an extremely passive-aggressive way of doing that - the equivalent of saying "Fine, if you don't care about my game we won't be roleplaying this evening", only more weaselly and less direct.

In fact, the more I read about it, the more I reread the original post, and the more other people throw their input in, the more I think that the core problem is that the GM simply lacks all confidence. He clearly doesn't feel able to say "Hey, Rufus, put away the model, I need you to be paying attention" or "Rufus, come on, this is your moment to introduce your character and you're not engaging with people; what's wrong?" or "Hey, guys, listen up, this part's important".

Rufus, I still think your behaviour in the session wasn't cool (I certainly would not be happy about someone doing it at my table), but, like the others, I want to stress that I don't think it's the core reason the session was a failure; the session failed because the GM is a wimp, and the players as a whole indulged all of their bad habits in the session because they didn't seen any reason not to. Had the GM been on the ball, after all, you wouldn't have wanted to fiddle with the model in the first place because you wouldn't have had a 90 minute wait to get into the action and you wouldn't have been tossed into the thick of things without any guidance or pointers.

Yes, you're a bad player. He's also very clearly a bad GM. You all suck, and are therefore made for each other.

RPGPundit

I'm in agreement with the mob as well.

Why were there two people there who weren't gaming, but who were pretty clearly engaging in disruptive behaviour (playing on their laptop, taking players out on drink runs, etc.)? That boggles my mind. I wouldn't object to prospective players hanging around to see how the game works, but I wouldn't stand for them disrupting things like that.