Giant robots:
Battletech
Mekton
Mecha!
Heavy Gear
Jovian Chronicles
Robot Warrior (aka Battletech for Champions - everybody was getting in to the act)
Cyberpunk2020 introduced Appleseed-like powered suits, so that gets thrown in...
What else?
It strikes me that "factions" as we know them in RPGs are a very 90s idea. There have always been cultures and interest groups of some kind in roleplaying games (Runequest's cults, for example), but their iconic, almost character class-like understanding, with selected representative quotes and all, specifically appeared with White Wolf's games.
There is a secret world that you belong to, and you have to keep yourself hidden from the unwashed masses.
Don't like:
Discreet Powered Factions/Splatbooks.
Over-sized Margins.
(Remarkably as 90's as White Wolf was, Aberrant was very dense for its size.)
90's Comic Book art/style/design (pretty much, all that.)
Do Like:
Mecha.
Simplified/condensed dice systems.
Metaplots that were kept hidden even from GMs, to be discovered piecemeal through splatbooks. (WoD, Tribe 8, Heavy Gear, 7th Sea...)
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;548411Metaplots that were kept hidden even from GMs, to be discovered piecemeal through splatbooks. (WoD, Tribe 8, Heavy Gear, 7th Sea...)
I hated this as well. My least favorite being in
Traveller: The New Era and
Cyberpunk 2020/Cybergeneration.
However, I loved Mecha and Cybernetics everywhere. That was grand.
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;548411Metaplots that were kept hidden even from GMs, to be discovered piecemeal through splatbooks. (WoD, Tribe 8, Heavy Gear, 7th Sea...)
There is a special circle of hell reserved for the people who did that.
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;548411Metaplots that were kept hidden even from GMs, to be discovered piecemeal through splatbooks. (WoD, Tribe 8, Heavy Gear, 7th Sea...)
... and in fact never actually existed as a coherent, actual metaplot, as was the case with Vampire the Masquerade. What you had instead was a bunch of items on a list of plotpoints that should be assumed to be this or that by authors and freelancers (like "Tremere killed Saulot. Saulot is in the body of Tremere. Tremere is in the body of Goratrix. Lugoj is Tzimisce." that kind of stuff). Beyond that, the whole notion there was an actual "truth" to the setting written by WW guys to be found out through the supplement was a total smokescreen.
Really liked:
Urban Fantasy (even so some of the games I didn't really care for, I still think it's turned into a fertile ground for role playing games)
Alternate Horror games (CoC is one of my all-time favorite games, but damn if Kult and Whispering Vault were really good)
Didn't like:
Metaplots and especially long, drawn-out metaplots which tied the GM to a script and cannon events.
Darkness, darkness everywhere: Every setting seemed to be trying to out angst/goth/dark each other. After awhile it got really silly. I remember playing in an Elric! game and one of the other players and I shouted out "arrgh, this game is so dark we don't even use torches!"
Oh yeah, metaplots! Terrible things to appear in games. Especially hiding it from the GM!
As for Urban fantasy, I think the current book trend is more fertile than ever in terms of novels, it is surprising games haven't re-jumped on the bandwagon.
Quote from: IceBlinkLuck;548428Darkness, darkness everywhere: Every setting seemed to be trying to out angst/goth/dark each other. After awhile it got really silly. I remember playing in an Elric! game and one of the other players and I shouted out "arrgh, this game is so dark we don't even use torches!"
Our go to taunt was "BLACK LIGHTS!" after a particularly bad lyric in a Type O Negative song.
Fuck that was an awful band.
I can't remember many core game boxed sets so I guess that was quite a change from the 80s, when TSR would box everything up (and everyone else followed suit).
Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;548411Metaplots that were kept hidden even from GMs, to be discovered piecemeal through splatbooks. (WoD, Tribe 8, Heavy Gear, 7th Sea...)
The Metaplot is my #1 '90s hate, yup. #2 might be the TSR Ethics Code, or self-consciously 'Dark' games, or both.
I can't think of anything specifically '90s that I liked; it was the decade that drove me away from RPGs (slow tail-off '91-'95, abandoned but for occasional PBEM '96-'99) until the release of 3.0 D&D in 2000, from when I've gamed ever since. I don't think I bought anything between 'Traveller: The New Era' in 1994 and 3e D&D in 2000.
Quote from: IceBlinkLuck;548428Darkness, darkness everywhere: Every setting seemed to be trying to out angst/goth/dark each other. After awhile it got really silly. I remember playing in an Elric! game and one of the other players and I shouted out "arrgh, this game is so dark we don't even use torches!"
That kind of reflected the zeitgeist of much of the audience at the time though, this was the heyday of serious heavy metal after the silliness of glam rock and hair metal in the 80s. Even the cureheads were going more cure than cure. Excessive grimdark does get wearing though, the only reason it works in settings like WH40k is the mile-wide streak of campy humour blended in with it.
Quote from: The Traveller;548437That kind of reflected the zeitgeist of much of the audience at the time though, this was the heyday of serious heavy metal after the silliness of glam rock and hair metal in the 80s. Even the cureheads were going more cure than cure. Excessive grimdark does get wearing though, the only reason it works in settings like WH40k is the mile-wide streak of campy humour blended in with it.
I'm sure it did reflect the mood of the time, having lived through it, I remember all the bargain-basement vampirellas and really intense guys calling themselves "Lestat" as if their mothers really gave them that name. It still got to the point of unintentional self-parody, and this is coming from someone who owns every album by Siouxsie and the Banshees.
There's always been an element of 'dark' in the gaming industry. The first Stormbringer came out in the 80s as well as Call of Cthulhu and Warhammer FRP. It's just during the 90s it seemed like the hobby really just chased that trend to the point that it became a joke. I don't think it was any one game company's fault. I don't think anyone was pushing an agenda. I just think that they got some promising sales that indicated that gamers wanted darker worlds to play in and all the developers just went overboard chasing the trend.
For least favorite, metaplots. Also fluff fiction in rulebooks -- I know this didn't start in the 90's, but it seemed like this was when it became prevalent.
For favorite, I'm not sure. There are a lot of individual games from the 90's that I liked, but I have trouble thinking of specific tropes that I liked that were unique or more prevalent in that decade.
It might be the government paranormal conspiracy/approaching-the-millennium settings like Delta Green for CoC and Dark*Matter for Alternity, both of which I enjoyed despite their different takes on the concept. Again, not new per se, but I think this trope has a strong 90's association.
Oh, Cyber- anything. Cyberpunk 2013 is technically an 80s game but effectively a 90s game. There was a Hero System book (Cyber Hero), too. Shadowrun (which I still don't understand the affection for), and what else...
Probably hand in fingerless glove with that : corporations/businesses as bad guys.
Quote from: Imperator;548401There is a secret world that you belong to, and you have to keep yourself hidden from the unwashed masses.
That could pretty much describe RPGers or any other subgroup right now. Between that self identifying feature and the proliferation of conspiracy theories, there's plenty of fodder for that trope's appeal.
Quote from: J Arcane;548434Our go to taunt was "BLACK LIGHTS!" after a particularly bad lyric in a Type O Negative song.
Fuck that was an awful band.
Hey now, I happen to like the intros to Wolf Moon and My Girlfriend's Girlfriend
I was overseas in the military during the 90s, so I missed a lot of the stuff that became big then (we couldn't exactly dress up in Goth and play out Vampire the Masquerade when you're on post in the military--not that I ever had that desire).
I guess you could say I didn't like D&D's movement in the 90s, from an atmospheric perspective. Too PC and fluffy. It's like it went from emulating Conan the Barbarian to emulating The Gummi Bears.
I liked some of the mechanical changes though.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;548487Probably hand in fingerless glove with that : corporations/businesses as bad guys.
More than that, science is also cold, impersonal and evil, and it only serves to sever us from our more authentic primal selves. Which is today manifested in counter-culture. This quote is from Exalted, but it sums it up quite well:
QuoteDo not believe what the scientists tell you. The natural history we know is a lie, a falsehood sold to us by wicked old men who would make the world a dull gray prison and protect us from the dangers inherent to freedom.
Quote from: Melan;548495More than that, science is also cold, impersonal and evil, and it only serves to sever us from our more authentic primal selves. Which is today manifested in counter-culture. This quote is from Exalted, but it sums it up quite well:
Exalted is the last gasp of the 90s "special snowflake" trope, also one I hate.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;548496Exalted is the last gasp of the 90s "special snowflake" trope, also one I hate.
A trope which evolved to give us more special snowflake game design in recent years.
I love science. Heck, I'm working hard to make E.o.N, have both science and faith as ways to fight the stigmatim. Silly people science isn't evil!
Quote from: Silverlion;548537I love science. Heck, I'm working hard to make E.o.N, have both science and faith as ways to fight the stigmatim. Silly people science isn't evil!
No, of course (http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/) it isn't. (http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-231)
My favorite parts of the 90's:
The Birthright and Ravenloft settings. Also, tons and tons of games played in the Forgotten Realms.
Werewolf the Apocalypse. Ecoterrorist werewolves were cool.
Shadowrun. All of it.
I wish there were no metaplots (especially Realms-shaking events every year).
Quote from: flyerfan1991;548489That could pretty much describe RPGers or any other subgroup right now.
Adventurer: the Murderhoboing
Quote from: Benoist;548427... and in fact never actually existed as a coherent, actual metaplot, as was the case with Vampire the Masquerade. What you had instead was a bunch of items on a list of plotpoints that should be assumed to be this or that by authors and freelancers (like "Tremere killed Saulot. Saulot is in the body of Tremere. Tremere is in the body of Goratrix. Lugoj is Tzimisce." that kind of stuff). Beyond that, the whole notion there was an actual "truth" to the setting written by WW guys to be found out through the supplement was a total smokescreen.
Which, since we're talking about the 90's was exactly how X-Files was. When you went away from the "Monster of the Week" episodes to the "Alien Conspiracy" episodes, it became clear that Chris Carter had no clue how the conspiracy was going to end.
Quote from: thedungeondelver;548592No, of course (http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/) it isn't. (http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-231)
Heh SPC-231 reminds me of the movie Cabin in the Woods.
Well, that crossed with Carcosa. :D
Quote from: thedungeondelver;548592No, of course (http://scp-wiki.wikidot.com/) it isn't. (http://www.scp-wiki.net/scp-231)
SCP is about people poking things they shouldn't. That's not the same thing as real science.
Quote from: Silverlion;548644SCP is about people poking things they shouldn't. That's not the same thing as real science.
Oh, but SCP is such a grand source of inspiration for my games!
I <3 SCP.
Quote from: CRKrueger;548638When you went away from the "Monster of the Week" episodes to the "Alien Conspiracy" episodes, it became clear that Chris Carter had no clue how the conspiracy was going to end.
X-Files inocculated me against Lost, Game of Thrones, Sopranos, Firefly etc. ad nauseam.
Rome was only good because the plot twists are predecided upon by history...
Thanks to X-Files, I can smell TV authors with a handbasket full of ideas and delusions of grandeur but no ability to wrap it up or make decisions twenty miles against the wind.
I do want to bring up Babylon 5 and Space: Above and Beyond as fantastic counterexamples from the 90ies.
My favorite 90ies design trope:
pre-storygamified cinematic systems:
WEG Star Wars stands out the most, in a way Cyberpunk and Shadowrun tried it from a different angle. Taking the setting very seriously but still providing cinematic action-adventure WITHOUT the collapse of all sanity as the fundamentalist readings of "story" and "cinematic" would later lead to. That line was probably first crossed by Guardians of Order, if anyone remembers them.
Quote from: Settembrini;548776I do want to bring up Babylon 5 and Space: Above and Beyond as fantastic counterexamples from the 90ies.
Space Above and Beyond taught me that there is no point getting invested in American TV, because even if it is any good, they will cancel the fucking thing before any resolution.
A trend that continues to this day. The Cape, The Firm, Terra Nova...
Saying that, some of those were average at best, but probably better than some of the shit that survives the cut every year on US tv.
Off the top of my head:
Most:
Lifepaths! Cyberpunk 2020, Mekton, Cybergen used the.
Mechwarrior 2nd Edition was a thing and it was awesome.
Cross over products like Battletech/Mechwarrior that didn't bloat up with FFG style chad.
Books were printed but dense. Look at those R. Talsorian books. So info packed crunchy goodness.
Actual setting books that were dense and useful. Nightcity, Waterdeep boxset, Azlan sourcebook.
Edgy did not equal gloomy pity fests.
You were PROFESSIONALS. PC's had a bit more...tact and vim about them. Post 2000 they were either Epic Heroes or Traumatised fools. I miss the Ninja & Superspies days.
There was more to do than dungeon crawling.
Naked violence in the settings. Glamoized but not worshiped.
Books with STUFF. Chromebook 1-4, Shadowrun gear books, just stuff, stuff, stuff.
GURPS 3rd Edition WAS GODLY.
Least:
Horrid binding.
Balkainzation of FASA products.
"Ending" of lines pre 2000. TORG, oWoD shutting down Wraith, etc.
No clear direction for post TSR world.
Masterbook era (ie. Pre death of WEG 1st time.)
Everyone was only playing WOD games at LGS.
If I had to put a nametag on the 90ies gaming we did, it would be:
"Decade of the Sci-Fi complex"
We explored, blasted, invaded, defended, sneaked into, spied upon, fought in, fought on, fought under, planned about ...etc. trillions of power stations, mainframe housings, corporate HQs, mech assembly lines, shield generators, AI driven supermalls, space stations, (star)port storagehouses etc... it is pretty defining in retrospect.
Different from Dungeons as far as location based gaming goes.
ADD: And after my fair share of dungeoneering, I must say I prefer the Sci Fi complex. I am still looking for a dungeon that has the same form/function ratio and inner logic. A grand fantasy riddle to be explored & conquered. The redone Castle Greyhawk did that for me, but I read it that way. We made it into a god-machine driven, Obelisk powered time machine.
Quote from: Settembrini;548936If I had to put a nametag on the 90ies gaming we did, it would be:
"Decade of the Sci-Fi complex"
We explored, blasted, invaded, defended, sneaked into, spied upon, fought in, fought on, fought under, planned about ...etc. trillions of power stations, mainframe housings, corporate HQs, mech assembly lines, shield generators, AI driven supermalls, space stations, (star)port storagehouses etc... it is pretty defining in retrospect.
Different from Dungeons as far as location based gaming goes.
Sounds like someone spent the 90s playing Cyberpunk 2020 and Shadowrun. ;)
Quote from: Settembrini;548936ADD: And after my fair share of dungeoneering, I must say I prefer the Sci Fi complex. I am still looking for a dungeon that has the same form/function ratio and inner logic. A grand fantasy riddle to be explored & conquered. The redone Castle Greyhawk did that for me, but I read it that way. We made it into a god-machine driven, Obelisk powered time machine.
Having been introduced to RPGs in the heyday of AD&D 2e, this is a big part of my fascination with OSR stuff: both the bledning of SF with fantasy (from the surreptitious to the balls-out) and the idea of the dungeon as an intellectual challenge of its own. Old news for real grogs, maybe, but novel enough for me.