Shrug.  I'll do a full writeup at some point as to why I hate the system.

Quote from: B.T.;547467Shrug.  I'll do a full writeup at some point as to why I hate the system.

You mean all systems.

I'm very critical, yes.

Me, too.  I don't hate the other systems though.  Hating doesn't bring people into the RPG scene.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;547458No reboot edition of an RPG has ever succeeded unless there is clear, deep, and widespread dissatisfaction in the existing customer base.

Do you have some examples?  None are coming to mind.

Once upon a time I would have said that a game line that didn't want to milk the supplement treadmill could, nonetheless, produce a new errata-ed, cleaned up "printing" (I dislike the word edition for this) with fresher layout and artwork as desktop publishing improves, and maybe including better-written examples or some previously non-core rules in an appendix or something, every five years to its core base.  After all, books wear out, you will occasionally introduce new players to the game and they'll want their own copies, etc.

With PDF publishing I no longer believe that even this is a viable revenue stream, as the original PDFs will never wear out and it will be too easy for one player to just give copies of the PDF to everyone else who's playing with them.

Quote from: daniel_ream;547482Do you have some examples?  None are coming to mind.

Reboot editions that have resulted in a significant diminishing of the game: GURPS 4E, Shadowrun 3E, Shadowrun 4E, D&D 4E, Hero 5E, the new World of Darkness, MegaTraveller, etc.

Reboot editions that addressed clear, deep, and widespread dissatisfaction with the game and met with success: AD&D, D&D 3E, Blue Planet 2E, arguably GURPS 3E, arguably Star Wars D20 Revised and Star Wars D20 Saga.

You can find lots of examples of incremental editions (i.e., minor rule revisions that didn't break compatibility): Shadowrun 2E, Heavy Gear 2E, Call of Cthulhu, Vampire: The Masquerade, etc.

Quote from: Aos;547460I think you need to define success before we can move any further. If you are talking anything but monetary success, we are having two different conversations.

I'm talking about the long-term monetary success of the entire brand/product line.

If you're talking about a very narrowly-defined monetary success of "we sold more 7E rulebooks this month than we did 6E rulebooks last month", then you're having a conversation with yourself.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;547553I'm talking about the long-term monetary success of the entire brand/product line.

If you're talking about a very narrowly-defined monetary success of "we sold more 7E rulebooks this month than we did 6E rulebooks last month", then you're having a conversation with yourself.

I remain unconvinced, if only because there is no other case like this one. What other company has been releasing the same rules under the same name for 30+ years? I think this is a unique situation. Furthermore, what is to keep them from continuing to publish their classic rule set? Not everyone is as stupid as WoTC.
Beyond that, don't put words in my mouth, fatty.

Quote from: Aos;547570I remain unconvinced, if only because there is no other case like this one. What other company has been releasing the same rules under the same name for 30+ years? I think this is a unique situation. Furthermore, what is to keep them from continuing to publish they're classic rule set? Not everyone is as stupid as WoTC.
Beyond that, don't put words in my mouth, fatty.

You're transparent in your sad, pathetic delusions.

Some quick points:

1. BRP remains the system for all of Chaosium's RPGs. It is inconceivable that CoC 7e will not remain a BRP game.  So long as CoC remains a BRP game, it will enjoy effective 'backwards compatibility' with past CoC material.

2. Retaining 'backwards compatibility' with Chaosium's vast CoC archive is important for their business.  They reissue versions of old material every so often, usually with very few revisions.  This makes them money, keeps the fans happy, and is easy for them to do.  An incompatible CoC 7e would undermine this convenient revenue stream.

3. I suspect that CoC 7e will be brought closer mechanically to core BRP. This may strike longtime CoC fanatics as a 'radical revision', but few others will notice.  I would not be surprised if CoC 7e will look a lot like Cubicle 7's (BRP-based) 'Laundry' RPG. If so, longtime fans of CoC have nothing to worry about.

The last 'radical revision' to CoC involved a rewrite of the sanity rules and a boost to starting PCs' skill points.   Even if CoC 7e is a more radical revision than that, I very much doubt that overall continuity will be threatened.

Quote from: Justin Alexander;547572You're transparent in your sad, pathetic delusions.

You are the smartest guy in the thread.

Quote from: Akrasia;547573Some quick points:

1. BRP remains the system for all of Chaosium's RPGs. It is inconceivable that CoC 7e will not remain a BRP game.  So long as CoC remains a BRP game, it will enjoy effective 'backwards compatibility' with past CoC material.

2. Retaining 'backwards compatibility' with Chaosium's vast CoC archive is important for their business.  They reissue versions of old material every so often, usually with very few revisions.  This makes them money, keeps the fans happy, and is easy for them to do.  An incompatible CoC 7e would undermine this convenient revenue stream.

3. I suspect that CoC 7e will be brought closer mechanically to core BRP. This may strike longtime CoC fanatics as a 'radical revision', but few others will notice.  I would not be surprised if CoC 7e will look a lot like Cubicle 7's (BRP-based) 'Laundry' RPG. If so, longtime fans of CoC have nothing to worry about.

The last 'radical revision' to CoC involved a rewrite of the sanity rules and a boost to starting PCs' skill points.   Even if CoC 7e is a more radical revision than that, I very much doubt that overall continuity will be threatened.

This all  seems pretty reasonable. I'm just curious, though, why put out a new edition at all? Who is the customer here?

What if CoC7 was actually a translation of the French version of the game? That would qualify as a big change, and yet, it's very much the same game using the same mechanics at its core. It just adds tons of bells and whistles for players and Keepers.

That would be terrific.

Quote from: Benoist;547579What if CoC7 was actually a translation of the French version of the game? That would qualify as a big change, and yet, it's very much the same game using the same mechanics at its core. It just adds tons of bells and whistles for players and Keepers.

That would be terrific.

Don't be a tease and explain us the changes IN ENGLISH!!

I'm torn, on the one hand I love the 1d100 system (although Call of Cthulhu is not my favorite 1d100 game), on the other hand, I've come to respect BT's insights about different systems, so I would like to hear his arguments against the system. By the way BT, do you know Call of Cthulhu d20 or Realms of Cthulhu (Savage Worlds)?

With regard to the possible publication of a hypothetical Call of Cthulhu 7th not using the BRP system, well, I think that hell will freeze before Chaosium stops using the BRP system with Cthulhu. Why would they do that? It's their best selling line, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, as they say.

Quote from: Aos;547578This all  seems pretty reasonable. I'm just curious, though, why put out a new edition at all? Who is the customer here?

Why? To keep an evergreen copy of the game always available.