Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;836344I like a system where one side rolls more than a system where both sides roll - but generally I want at least one roll. So I like passive perception 4E style (despite generally hating 4E), but 5E was a bit too far.
Binary is kind of the wrong word for it since its not actually a yes/no its 'Always Yes' or 'Always No'. The equivalent of always hitting AC 17 because your attack is +7.
I'd probably go with 'deterministic'.

Always Yes and Always No is binary. It's Answer 1 or Answer 2.

Quote from: Scutter;836356So what was the point in giving it a DC of 20 in the first place if nobody at the table had a chance to spot it?

Because it's well concealed enough that you need to be actively looking for it it to find it.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;836334In LMoP in Cragmaw Castle there's a tripwire trap with a passive DC of 20, but an active DC of 15. Or maybe it was 10. Either way if they just waltz near it they are never going to notice with passive perception.

Ah, so it was in there! Thanks

Thanks all for the feedback

Quote from: Matt;836380Always Yes and Always No is binary. It's Answer 1 or Answer 2.

If I flip a coin with a head on both sides, is that 'binary'?
Feel free to invent your own definitions, but if you can't define the difference between 'having a roll to see if it works, yes/no' and 'automatic hit' there may be a problem with them.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;836439If I flip a coin with a head on both sides, is that 'binary'?

Do you even know what 'binary' means?  Bi means 2.  Binary is a corruption of Latin meaning Two Together.

It's also the core of a lot of things, like light switches.  On/Off.  Computers use Binary as it's core operational system.  A series of linked On/Off or Binary options strung together to form things like programs and animations and computations.  Just because you pass a certain number at all times, doesn't mean you'll pass every number.

Quote from: Bloody Stupid Johnson;836439Feel free to invent your own definitions, but if you can't define the difference between 'having a roll to see if it works, yes/no' and 'automatic hit' there may be a problem with them.

Wait, auto hit?  Where's that coming from.  Let's say you have a Passive Perception of 14.  You come across something that's DC 13.  You pass.  But if you come across (and you will) something that's DC 15, you fail.  That's pretty binary to me.  Either you pass the DC or you don't, whether or not you're actually rolling for that result means nothing.  It's an On or Off proposition.

So I have no idea why you're taking offense to this, but that's how it is.

Another thing I like about the passive perception is that it makes the wisdom stat more relevant. If you have a low score or used it as your junk stat then you pay the price. My Warlock has a low Wisdom because I rolled in order and got 7. Jans is low because that is where she placed her 5 roll.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;836451Do you even know what 'binary' means?  Bi means 2.  Binary is a corruption of Latin meaning Two Together.

It's also the core of a lot of things, like light switches.  On/Off.  Computers use Binary as it's core operational system.  A series of linked On/Off or Binary options strung together to form things like programs and animations and computations.  Just because you pass a certain number at all times, doesn't mean you'll pass every number.



Wait, auto hit?  Where's that coming from.  Let's say you have a Passive Perception of 14.  You come across something that's DC 13.  You pass.  But if you come across (and you will) something that's DC 15, you fail.  That's pretty binary to me.  Either you pass the DC or you don't, whether or not you're actually rolling for that result means nothing.  It's an On or Off proposition.

So I have no idea why you're taking offense to this, but that's how it is.

I explained my position already back in post #11. We're done here.

I would take passive perception to mean just what it sounds like: your default level of attentiveness to the world around you.

Quote from: RPGPundit;836881I would take passive perception to mean just what it sounds like: your default level of attentiveness to the world around you.

And that's how the game treats it.  At least from what the 'official' adventures I've run claims.

Quote from: jadrax;836320Personally I have the 'Trap' make a stealth check to represent how well its creator did at hiding it combined with how favorable the current circumstances are. It's a bit of an abstraction but I prefer it to automatic detection or having the player's roll.

that is automatic detection you are just randomising the DC of the passive perception score. One assumes that the trap doesn't get to reroll its stealth if the party come back this way....

Quote from: Omega;836460Another thing I like about the passive perception is that it makes the wisdom stat more relevant. If you have a low score or used it as your junk stat then you pay the price. My Warlock has a low Wisdom because I rolled in order and got 7. Jans is low because that is where she placed her 5 roll.

Except of course Wisdom is a really stupid stat to use for perception and it exposes the fact that D&D shoudl have bitten the bullet and included a Perception stat as a separate item back in 2e.

So basically then, use PP as and when you feel it is necessary

Quote from: jibbajibba;836909Except of course Wisdom is a really stupid stat to use for perception and it exposes the fact that D&D shoudl have bitten the bullet and included a Perception stat as a separate item back in 2e.

Well we have passive perception which essentially is a 7th character stat now. You just dont roll for it. I could easily see rolling for perception as a stat if someone wanted to.

Quote from: Scutter;836911So basically then, use PP as and when you feel it is necessary

Or when an event says to. The open pit trap I mentioned is one. The DMG rules specifically say traps are detected on a passive perception vs the traps listed DC. IE: The basic pit trap is a DC 10. A concealed pit is a DC 15, and so on. Or any given monster with stealth that decides to hide in ambush. It makes its stealth check and that becomes the PCs PP DC. OK?

Everything else. Yes. When the DM or module writer feels it makes sense for it to be applied.