A strange idea, unusual in an era of hotkey-mashing videogames, but 5e should distinguish itself from them.  There were several factors that kept 3e players like myself from getting into 5e, and the combat hornets were a big factor.  (Among the others: formatting, over-reliance on stock effects, dissociation, and general curmudgeonry.)  To sell me on 5e, I want to see powers beyond 3[W] + Strength and 2[W] + Strength + slow.  The fighter should not hit hard 1/day or 1/encounter or 1/rest; he should hit hard constantly, with every attack he makes.

4e did some things right in this regard, just not a lot of them. 4vengers like to point out the skill powers released late in the edition as examples of this, but if I have to wait three years for your game not to suck, you're not selling me on it.  Even the choice of powers in the PHB that don't involve stabbing things are slim pickings.

I'd like to see martial abilities that are evocative and interesting, not shitty +damage powers. Some ideas off the top of my head:

Jump far using a staff or spear to pole vault.
Deflecting wizard beams with a shield.
Moving, climbing, and swimming really fast.
Diving behind cover when a fireball hits.
Distracting your enemy so your ally can escape.
Ignoring the fact you're bleeding to death.

Easy make the fighter go back to her roots. She hits stuff the best, damages it the best, has the best armour class, is the only class with multiple attacks per round, and best at saving vs. Magic. And has skill points not far behind the Rogue and Wizard.  Add in some penalties to magic users like disruption and low hitpoints.  Done. You have 2e, my favorite version (3e is tied but fuck you I like powergaming within reason).

Or just say fuck it and come play Fantasy Craft with me and be in awe of how a game system can be built when the developers are in it for the love of the game, not profit.  It's 3x even! They already have done everything 5e wants to do with the math working.  Horizontal vs. Vertical advancement? Check. Neat martial manuevers? Check.  Wizards within reason? Check. Backgrounds tied to real world occupations? Check. Themes that are organic like 2e kits? Check. Clerics with magic that is no way like a wizard and completely themed to their god? Check. (Wizards do the healing as it should be. If they want to learn or are specialized in it. Clerics only heal if that's in their God's path/portfolio).

Quote from: B.T.;549452Ignoring the fact you're bleeding to death.

Not sure I'd want that one.

Quote from: B.T.;549452The fighter should not hit hard 1/day or 1/encounter or 1/rest; he should hit hard constantly, with every attack he makes.

This is crazy. I could just as easily say that its unrealistic and unintuitive to have a character that hits as hard at his peak as he does after a long and brutal battle.

Otherwise I basically agree - if this kind of design was implemented in 4e it would go a long way to fixing my grievances with it - ie giving the fighter unique, flavourful, and useful things to do outside of a strict battle setting.

I initially read this thread title as:

"5e marital abilities should not focus on hitting things."

Quote from: jeff37923;549551I initially read this thread title as:

"5e marital abilities should not focus on hitting things."

TMI sir!:D

Quote from: pryingeyes;549550This is crazy. I could just as easily say that its unrealistic and unintuitive to have a character that hits as hard at his peak as he does after a long and brutal battle.

I think that should just be represented by the critical hit system.  Having an at-will that does 2[W] + Str and a daily that does 7[W] + Str just seems...excessive and cumbersome.  I'd much rather have all attacks do 4[W] + Strength and call it a day.

Quote from: B.T.;549595I think that should just be represented by the critical hit system.  Having an at-will that does 2[W] + Str and a daily that does 7[W] + Str just seems...excessive and cumbersome.  I'd much rather have all attacks do 4[W] + Strength and call it a day.

As long as you don't feel that that's somehow more realistic (it isn't, both systems are flawed representations of something that doesn't need to be perfectly represented anyway), that's fine.

I'd prefer the two separate powers, if only because it seems more interesting to me - as a player, I'd rather have a few reasonably good choices for a more interesting game, and on a character level I'd rather imagine my character looking for the perfect moment to pull their physical power, training and tactical strength together rather than being some sort of Energizer bunny.

I think that one of the problems here is that true physical fatigue is rarely accounted for in the game. Hence the reason that imposing that kind of limit on a martial character breaks verisimilitude. It doesn't help that your /encounter or /day abilities could simply be saved until a large, difficult encounter at the end of an adventuring day, or 5 minutes after you woke up; it just doesn't gel with idea of fatigue all that well.

Quote from: Bobloblah;549716I think that one of the problems here is that true physical fatigue is rarely accounted for in the game. Hence the reason that imposing that kind of limit on a martial character breaks verisimilitude. It doesn't help that your /encounter or /day abilities could simply be saved until a large, difficult encounter at the end of an adventuring day, or 5 minutes after you woke up; it just doesn't gel with idea of fatigue all that well.

Huh? True physical fatigue is rarely accounted for, so half-assedly imposing a physical fatigue limit breaks verisimilitude?

The bottom line is that because you can't just handwave physical things (whether 'powers' or not - it's the same) away with 'magic', any ruleset is an incomplete, imperfect representation that breaks someone's verisimilitude.

Ignoring 4E few characters were hindered for physical fatigue over the course of a day (only the Barbarian is coming to mind at the moment). Your suggestion relies on that burden being placed almost uniquely on the Fighter.

I understand what you're saying, and everyone has their own personal line they don't want crossed. Having said that, the number of people for whom Fighter daily or encounter powers are over the line for is rather large, regardless of your personal feelings on the subject.

I agree with the premise for this thread, but disagree with some of the particulars.

Game I'm writing has wounds to spice up base attacks, and shoots for a bit more variety in powers. Soldiers can hit a bunch of people or knock a guy back, yes, but they can also remove themselves from melee if they make an AoO, shield their friends, and reduce the defenses of foes they hit... to benefit their allies and all. Then rogues can keep the effects of cover and concealment while moving between hiding places, or parkour across the battlefield and so on.

My thought is that powers for beating people up is fine, but they shouldn't be as limited as they ended up in 4e.

And as usual, my worry with 5 is that they mimic the older editions with modules, and don't attempt to stretch them  a little (improving verisimilitude and variety in the tactical rules for people for whom 4e was not enough, for example).

Quote from: jeff37923;549551I initially read this thread title as:

"5e marital abilities should not focus on hitting things."

Being able to cook and take out the garbage are my only other skill sets.

I've given up hope on 5E already. In general though, I like special abilities so that they're designed to be multi-functional, have various effects based on the situation, and have out of combat as well as in-combat use. E.g. instead of "shoot guy for 2W+slow" you might have an 'improved called shot' power that ties into the hit location rules so you can shoot a guy in the leg to do the 'slow' effect, or cut a head off a hydra more easily, or stun a victim briefly.
 
I've also been pondering a bit how you integrate combat rules into the non-combat/skills side of things, so that combat feats/powers automatically work in non-combat. Perhaps Climb is based off attack rolls rather than separate skill so that Weapon Finesse or Elven accuracy or etc. can help a character climb better, or critical chance or damage bonuses could help on some other tasks. Tricky without having lengthy non-combat rules, though.

Quote from: Aos;550701Being able to cook and take out the garbage are my only other skill sets.

Marry me.