Quote from: Panjumanju;799508This is what is shocking me most about the entire release of 5th Edition. I had no idea that such a chunk of D&D players were approaching it with so little imagination, requiring a DMG to tell them how to think in order to play.

//Panjumanju

I can see a few possible reasons:

1) They're still too used to 4E and 3.5, which is a lot more granular.

2) They expect the DMG to carve out a niche of rules space to provide a specific experience, otherwise they can wing it just fine without needing to buy it.

Quote from: Saplatt;799475I wouldn't worry about any ships sinking. The people who are complaining the loudest wouldn't have bought it no matter what it contained.

I think it will sell just fine.

Yep. 10 or 15 persistent trolls on a couple forums can make a lot of noise. But they're not representative of the people out there actually buying and playing the game. The DMG will do just fine.

The real barometer of the game's future will probably be how well received the 2015 lineup of adventures is. 5E desperately needs a landmark adventure or adventure series, and it's looking like the Tyranny of Dragons is a swing and a miss.

Quote from: Haffrung;799533Yep. 10 or 15 persistent trolls on a couple forums can make a lot of noise. But they're not representative of the people out there actually buying and playing the game. The DMG will do just fine.

The real barometer of the game's future will probably be how well received the 2015 lineup of adventures is. 5E desperately needs a landmark adventure or adventure series, and it's looking like the Tyranny of Dragons is a swing and a miss.

I honestly don't care about adventures at all. I understand that a lot of people like them, and that cool, I have little use for them.

HOWEVER...

What I'm a little leery with - not sure if I'm okay with it but I'll "wait and see" - is if they take a page out of FFG's book (Edge of the Empire) and they couple new "things" with their adventures - classes and Feats and stuff like that in order to "force" people to buy it. Thus far I think FFG has done a bangup job. Can WotC? Who knows. I hope they don't do it because their track-record has been crappy at it.

Quote from: Will;799515I'm still horrified at the stuff people were saying back in 3e, like 'oh GREAT now it's an official supplement so I have to use it.'

Man, wut?

I think that for a lot of gamers they think that if they buy an official TSR/WoTC book that is should be okay to be used in the game they are playing in. I understand that feeling. It would suck to hit the game shop, buy a book, and then be told you cannot use it. I think prior to the era of balance that most DMs could work with their player to find the root desire and run with it.

Quote from: One Horse Town;799510If it didn't have the magic items in it, i don't think i'd be picking up the DMG. I still might not. I have about 3 versions of most d&d magic items and it's not too tricky to convert to 5e, so i might not bother picking it up at all.

Not an unreasonable position to have.  I mean, we've been playing it for how long already without a DMG?  If you've ever GM'd a game before, you really don't need the DMG.  Many of things that have historically been in the DMG before (combat rules) are now in the PHB.  The even put monster stats in the PHB for those classes that it impacts (druid wild shape, ranger pets, necromancer animated zombies, etc).

For whatever reason our Pathfinder GM has been waiting for the DMG before making a decision to run it... I guess to see it will add enough optional crunch for the group's tastes. So I'm guessing that also means he won't want to run it until he sees some sort of Hero Lab type support for it.
It seems like an odd approach to me.

Wow. That store is going to get hell from WOTC. The last one to pull that got fined I believe as it breaches the contract. Not sure.

As for the incessant bitching. This is the same general crowd of nuts thats been bitching about anything from 5e so far no matter what it is.

As for magic items. Who cares? Id like to see rules on item creation instead. Costs, time, components, spells needed or new spells specific to crafting. Throw wide the doors to making anything.

Its dungeon generation and world generation rules Id like to see. And likely wont.

The rules for handling modern tech falling into the hands of fantasy characters interests me.

The race creation rules looked like a bust from the preview alone so that will be no surprise.

If the book has a-lot of pointers and guides for new DMs then perfect. That is what is needed in the book even if its mostly useless to those with experience.

Quote from: Omega;799550Wow. That store is going to get hell from WOTC. The last one to pull that got fined I believe as it breaches the contract. Not sure.

Could be even worst than that. If they got it through say Diamond Comic Distributors. I could see them refuse to ship product or the like. All the sudden its new comic day, and no product. I have visions of nerds with pulls going insane.

Quote from: Saplatt;799475I wouldn't worry about any ships sinking. The people who are complaining the loudest wouldn't have bought it no matter what it contained.

I think it will sell just fine.

At least one FLGS I frequent has been having trouble keeping the 5e books in stock, they sell that quickly.

The people who are complaining about 5e's broken promises are the people whom 5e wasn't targeting in the first place.

Do they want to play Pathfinder?  Great, play Pathfinder.  

Do they want to play 3.x?  Great, play 3.x.

Nobody, and I do mean nobody, is stopping you from playing a version of the game that you love.  WotC even went out of their way to reprint old versions of the game for you.  And all those 20+ splatbooks you've got on your shelf?  Nobody is stopping you from using them.

I like where 5e is going.  I like the writing, which is much more what I want to see in an RPG manual than the textbook style of 3.x and (especially) Pathfinder.  I like the rules; they're a step back from having to pull out the damn battlemat every time there's a fight (3.x/Pathfinder/4e), and the so-called "promised crunch" in the DMG is still not as rules heavy as 3.x or Pathfinder.

Some people just have to bitch, I guess.

Quote from: Ronin;799555Could be even worst than that. If they got it through say Diamond Comic Distributors. I could see them refuse to ship product or the like. All the sudden its new comic day, and no product. I have visions of nerds with pulls going insane.

I doubt it. The shop is in Italy, and here rpg are so marginal that I'm under the impression that nobody will give much wight to the issue.

Quote from: Omega;799550...

Its dungeon generation and world generation rules Id like to see. And likely wont.

The rules for handling modern tech falling into the hands of fantasy characters interests me.
...

Random Dungeon Generation

Firearms & Tech

:-)

Quote from: Korgul;799559I doubt it. The shop is in Italy, and here rpg are so marginal that I'm under the impression that nobody will give much wight to the issue.

OH, I was thinking it was the US. I guess I wouldn't know what kind of stink if any that would raise there.

Quote from: Ronin;799555Could be even worst than that. If they got it through say Diamond Comic Distributors. I could see them refuse to ship product or the like. All the sudden its new comic day, and no product. I have visions of nerds with pulls going insane.

Verily. Distributors have blacklisted stores or game designers before. Or even types of games. Some apply a-lot of pressure on publishers to NOT make their card games CCGs. Heck, some distributors wont touch a game unless the box is a certain size.

Quote from: trechriron;799566Random Dungeon Generation

Firearms & Tech

:-)

Saw both and a bit more. The preview of the dungeon gen was too vaugue to base an impression off of yet.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;799558At least one FLGS I frequent has been having trouble keeping the 5e books in stock, they sell that quickly.

  That's nothing. Amazon can't keep the PHB in stock.

QuoteThe people who are complaining about 5e's broken promises are the people whom 5e wasn't targeting in the first place.

  Let's be fair--while the final design wasn't targeting us, the marketing talk, including numerous statements by the design team, was certainly trying to sell to everyone and made grand promises about being something that could satisfy everyone. It's not unfair to be a bit disappointed when those promises aren't kept.