While I was drunk, depressed, sick and sleep deprived, I decided to use a coupon to purchase Out of the Abyss.

I've yet to dive in, but to prepare myself (it's a long book), I've read a couple of reviews and GM tips and tricks (like this one from Sly Flourish, which was great). But I'm curious if any members of this community have run it, and had any advice, guidance or even warnings.

How did it go? Which parts of the book should I pay extra attention to for campaign pre-planning? What do you recommend changing (if anything)?

Thanks!

I am currently playing in it; we escaped the Underdark and, almost inexplicably, we're going back (I missed the session when the party decided that, so there may have been more justification; and I had swapped in a character who would go along with or without a good reason if everyone else did). So, not that far along (5th-6th levels) and I'm a player, so I don't know what we missed and I've avoided spoilers.

The main things that I didn't enjoy in the early part were:

• foraging for food all the time, without a clear idea of how much danger of insufficient food there actually was; wandering monsters and pursuing Drow seemed more than enough motivation to move fast and purposefully, and we didn't get offered clear choices that hinged on how much food we had or thought we could find.
• pursuing Drow are good motivation, but we had no feedback of how close they were, so it was always hard to decide whether to spend more time on something or not. So we made a number of arbitrary decisions.
• there were too many NPCs initially, especially since we had 7 players; it was hard to get a sense of them as individuals. Fortunately, their numbers dwindled rapidly.

Surprisingly, I liked the captured by the Drow and escaping part more than I expected. Usually that sort of adventure hook puts me off.

Quote from: rawma;873177The main things that I didn't enjoy in the early part were:

• foraging for food all the time, without a clear idea of how much danger of insufficient food there actually was; wandering monsters and pursuing Drow seemed more than enough motivation to move fast and purposefully, and we didn't get offered clear choices that hinged on how much food we had or thought we could find.
• pursuing Drow are good motivation, but we had no feedback of how close they were, so it was always hard to decide whether to spend more time on something or not. So we made a number of arbitrary decisions.
• there were too many NPCs initially, especially since we had 7 players; it was hard to get a sense of them as individuals. Fortunately, their numbers dwindled rapidly.
  

I plan on running Out of the Abyss, and one of the first things I plan on changing is the number of NPCs in the escape. It just strikes me that starting an adventure by introducing 10 different NPCs is narrative overload. I'll probably cut 10 down to 5 or 6.

Quote from: rawma;873177

• pursuing Drow are good motivation, but we had no feedback of how close they were, so it was always hard to decide whether to spend more time on something or not. So we made a number of arbitrary decisions.

That seems appropriate though, why would you expect to know how close your pusuers are unless they're close enough to hear or see you as well?

Quote from: Necrozius;873155While I was drunk, depressed, sick and sleep deprived, I decided to use a coupon to purchase Out of the Abyss.

I've yet to dive in, but to prepare myself (it's a long book), I've read a couple of reviews and GM tips and tricks (like this one from Sly Flourish, which was great). But I'm curious if any members of this community have run it, and had any advice, guidance or even warnings.

How did it go? Which parts of the book should I pay extra attention to for campaign pre-planning? What do you recommend changing (if anything)?

Thanks!

There's much going on, and I wouldn't put much stock in the review here.

That said, it's less than perfect. My group is about 1/4 of the way through (Just about wrapped up Gracklstugh).

Definitely tone down the starting NPCs--1 per player should be plenty, it's a real overload in the beginning. As the NPCs die off, have some of the others pop up. Definitely use 3x5 cards for the henchman, you don't want to be looking up all their crap all the time.

Foraging for food doesn't quite work if there's a druid in the party (Goodberry FTW), but it is a good thing to spring on the players every once in a while.

Before players get to each settlement, read through carefully, and consider setting up railroad tracks for what the players should do. Lots of folks get lost in the city, and the book doesn't much of a guide for what should happen, when...there is lots of redundancy built in, but that can be a problem when players start backtracking and run into "but someone else already gave us that adventure."

There are problems due to non-existent playtesting, made all the worse with no level guidelines...it's really tough to glean roughly what levels the players should be, where. I recommend creating more than a few "extra" adventures, as the book is very light on stuff to do off the main quest (the book's side-adventures run out around level 3 or so) to give yourself a feel for the party's capabilities, and to give them the kind of exp they should have to handle the end-game adventures (there's nowhere near enough ep in the books otherwise), or go milestone and make them whatever level seems right as they enter a given phase of the adventure.

Quote from: Simlasa;873194That seems appropriate though, why would you expect to know how close your pusuers are unless they're close enough to hear or see you as well?

I don't think I would expect to know, but without any way of knowing at all then it's hard to expect players to want to do any side adventures or exploring. The DM did seem to expect us to do those things, and conveniently the drow caught up only when we were almost out (and the first warning came when they attacked my invisible imp familiar who was scouting back behind us). I don't know if the adventure is set up that way or if the DM just made it so or if it was just chance that they caught up to us then.

Perhaps as a player judging it as an adventure, I would expect the characters to have some warning to make the adventure work the way that seemed intended, but in character I would have no such expectation. My character advocated for side quests if there seemed there would be loot, and against them if not, because excessive greed brought him to the Underdark in the first place.

I can think of a number of ways that adventurers could know, such as drow hunting horns in the distance, or sighting a drow scout running back to report when the drow are fairly close, or an NPC with some telepathic bond to the pervasive fungus, or perhaps even a magic dagger made for a war against the drow:

QuoteNow he drew it out. It shone pale and dim before his eyes. "So it is [STRIKE]an elvish[/STRIKE] a duergar or svirfneblin blade, too," he thought; "and [STRIKE]goblins[/STRIKE] drow are not very near, and yet not far enough."

Agreed, the "drow pursuit" thing is not done well.

If the players stand and fight, they'll either all lose (makes for a tough campaign), or win (negates the whole theme of the campaign). Seeing as there are some level 8's in the drow party, winning isn't that likely.

So, the party should run...and the "run away" rules provided in the book are lame ("stupidest thing I've ever heard of" said one player). Like so much else in the book, a few set encounters (with convenient run-away option) would have gone a long way.

"The drow catch up to the players as they come upon a rope bridge across a crevasse..."

"The drow catch up to the players as they encounter a horde of rats..."

Instead, a few paragraphs giving a rough description of what to do, sort of.

Quote from: Doom;873197Foraging for food doesn't quite work if there's a druid in the party (Goodberry FTW), but it is a good thing to spring on the players every once in a while.

Material component: sprig of mistletoe. If the drow confiscated that or a focus. And they sure better have. Then lots of luck finding more down below. Ta-ta goodberry. But of you can make it to the surface and luck out to find a region where its growing, or the drow didnt torch your supply. Then yeah it makes foraging not a problem for the group. But you will still have the problem of supporting NPC if you got only say 1 out of 1d10 possible. Then again you can spam the spell and hope for a bumper crop.

Rangers can neutralize the foraging problem to to a degree as well.

Quote from: Omega;873230Material component: sprig of mistletoe. If the drow confiscated that or a focus. And they sure better have. Then lots of luck finding more down below. Ta-ta goodberry. But of you can make it to the surface and luck out to find a region where its growing, or the drow didnt torch your supply. Then yeah it makes foraging not a problem for the group. But you will still have the problem of supporting NPC if you got only say 1 out of 1d10 possible. Then again you can spam the spell and hope for a bumper crop.

Rangers can neutralize the foraging problem to to a degree as well.

We found our equipment when we escaped from the drow, and judging from where it was, that seemed like it would be unlikely for players to miss it. For a material component without a cost, you can substitute a component pouch or spellcasting focus. Without mistletoe or that rule, the druid would also be unable to use Shillelagh, which might be his or her main combat thing (it was for my druid at first level).

Also, the spell says "up to ten berries appear" but doesn't specify any further determination; why does the number have to be random, and why 1d10 in particular?

The goodberry question didn't come up for us because we did not have a druid.

Quote from: rawma;873239Also, the spell says "up to ten berries appear" but doesn't specify any further determination; why does the number have to be random, and why 1d10 in particular?

The goodberry question didn't come up for us because we did not have a druid.

1: As you say. It says "up to ten" it doesnt say "ten berries appear" Usually that means a d10 roll, not a 2d5 roll or a 5d2 roll, or a 1d4+6 roll, etc roll. (Though since its not stated. A DM could use any method.)

2: Kefras playing a druid so it came up under a different circumstance. And I mention the Ranger as another factor as Jan plays one. 2x foraging in favoured terrain is really handy. And Jan took Underdark as hers as she reasoned it would be the hardest place to forage and we tend to end up deep down sooner or later.

We have not gotten to play the module but I foresee a ranger and druid combo as shaving off alot of hassle with foraging.

Quote from: rawma;873239We found our equipment when we escaped from the drow, and judging from where it was, that seemed like it would be unlikely for players to miss it. For a material component without a cost, you can substitute a component pouch or spellcasting focus. Without mistletoe or that rule, the druid would also be unable to use Shillelagh, which might be his or her main combat thing (it was for my druid at first level).

Also, the spell says "up to ten berries appear" but doesn't specify any further determination; why does the number have to be random, and why 1d10 in particular?

The goodberry question didn't come up for us because we did not have a druid.

Agreed, Abyss is set up for the characters to find their equipment early on, so worrying about material components is a non-issue. As was explained before, to the same guy who brought it up again this time., who somehow missed it when I stated explicitly what page of the Abyss book this is on. Sheesh.

Quote from: Omega;8732551: As you say. It says "up to ten" it doesnt say "ten berries appear" Usually that means a d10 roll, not a 2d5 roll or a 5d2 roll, or a 1d4+6 roll, etc roll. (Though since its not stated. A DM could use any method.)

Usually "up to" just means a maximum which can be realized unless reduced by circumstances (e.g., up to three creatures but fewer if there aren't that many within range) or the caster's choice, not the top value of a random range. You can bless up to three creatures of your choice within range, or create up to four dancing lights and move them up to 60 feet as a bonus action; duration is often "Concentration, up to 1 minute" or other limit; commune allows up to three questions; and lots of others (and similar usage outside of spells - a quiver can hold up to 20 arrows, you can move a distance up to your speed). None of those would be determined at random.

It does seem weird in this case, because I don't see any constraint that would limit the number otherwise, nor any reason a caster would choose fewer than ten. I wonder if it got carried over from earlier versions, where you needed berries for the spell to infuse with magic rather than creating them, and then if you had fewer than ten you would only get that many. (The latest Next version I have says "Up to ten berries in your hand are infused with life-giving magic for the duration." so you had to have the berries.) The spell could do with a clarification (either to remove "Up to", or specify conditions that result in fewer berries, or specify what to roll for the number created if it is random).

QuoteWe have not gotten to play the module but I foresee a ranger and druid combo as shaving off alot of hassle with foraging.

We did have a ranger, and he was quite helpful, in foraging and general survival checks.

Quote from: Haffrung;873190I plan on running Out of the Abyss, and one of the first things I plan on changing is the number of NPCs in the escape. It just strikes me that starting an adventure by introducing 10 different NPCs is narrative overload. I'll probably cut 10 down to 5 or 6.

I am running the game, and although I haven't reduced the number of NPCs, what I did do was copy all of the character portraits and attached them to index cards.

Have I missed the optimal timing to make a joke about having plenty of Abyss left?

Quote from: Shipyard Locked;873546Have I missed the optimal timing to make a joke about having plenty of Abyss left?

That was deep.