Hmm, I got something else wrong. That's what comes of skimming the rules in eagerness to run a game.

There's a character that's a Halfling Sorceror with Wild Magic path in my campaign.

Halflings reroll 1's on attacks, saves, Ability checks

However the Wild magic has the following ruling:

QuoteWild Magic Surge
Starting when you choose this origin at 1st level, your
spellcasting can unleash surges of untamed magic.
Immediately after you cast a sorcerer spell of 1st level
or higher, the DM can have you roll a d20. If you roll a
1, roll on the Wild Magic Surge table to create a random
magical effect.

I read this wrongly, assuming whenever the Sorceror rolls a 1 with a spell, or attack or skill (which it clearly does NOT say that).
However the Halfling rerolls 1s, so it never happened with the wild magic.

Of course, reading this properly it's a special roll that's made after casting any spell.

The Halfling lucky ability:

QuoteLucky.
When you roll a 1 on an attack roll, ability check, or saving throw, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll.

Fortunately, as this ability is specific to Attack rolls and, ability checks and Saves, this special d20 wild magic roll after casting a spell (1st level and above) is exempt from the Halfling reroll ability.

Quote from: dbm;791909I recently learned that Warlock patron spells add to your spell list, not your spells known. You can pick them, but you don't automatically  know them.

Big difference!

Ah that's interesting, that came up in a discussion yesterday at home with my kids who were looking at the Warlock.

Since we are in a thread about wrong interpretation of the D&D 5 rules, do I correctly understand how the human ability bonus works by adding + 1 to the 6 abilties ?

Quote from: yabaziou;791960Since we are in a thread about wrong interpretation of the D&D 5 rules, do I correctly understand how the human ability bonus works by adding + 1 to the 6 abilties ?

Yep, although if you're using Feats, then humans can opt to increase 2 stats by 1 and take a Feat.

Quote from: One Horse Town;791962Yep, although if you're using Feats, then humans can opt to increase 2 stats by 1 and take a Feat.

Thanks, OHT, your answer is greatly appreciated ! I was beginning to make confusion between D&D 5 and 13th Age character generation rules. And your extra precision about trading ability augmentation for a feat is something I didn't notice in the rules ... I guess you never lose your time when you are asking questions about something you are not sure !

Quote from: dbm;791909I recently learned that Warlock patron spells add to your spell list, not your spells known. You can pick them, but you don't automatically  know them.

Big difference!

I've been trying to suss out the consequences of this quirk.  As far as I can tell there's no real downside to not "knowing" the spell.  You can cast it, and so know it in that sense. I was thinking that the reason the spell isn't "known" is that this conveniently excludes it from being cast with a spell slot.  Is there some other rules interaction that affects warlocks differently because of this?

Quote from: Natty Bodak;791974I've been trying to suss out the consequences of this quirk.  As far as I can tell there's no real downside to not "knowing" the spell.  You can cast it, and so know it in that sense. I was thinking that the reason the spell isn't "known" is that this conveniently excludes it from being cast with a spell slot.  Is there some other rules interaction that affects warlocks differently because of this?

I don't have my books with me, but my understanding is that you can only cast spells you know so there is a downside. If you have a diabolical patron you can choose to know Fireball, but that occupies one of your "spells known" and so there is the opportunity cost of not knowing a different spell on your expanded list.

If you don't choose Fireball as one of your "known spells" you can't cast it. But you could cast a spell from a scroll of Fireball more easily as it is on your class list of spells.

That is my understanding, anyway.

Quote from: dbm;792022I don't have my books with me, but my understanding is that you can only cast spells you know so there is a downside. If you have a diabolical patron you can choose to know Fireball, but that occupies one of your "spells known" and so there is the opportunity cost of not knowing a different spell on your expanded list.

If you don't choose Fireball as one of your "known spells" you can't cast it. But you could cast a spell from a scroll of Fireball more easily as it is on your class list of spells.

That is my understanding, anyway.

Oh, hmm.  That's not how I read it.  Here's how I thought it went.

Warlocks can cast spells they know (which I interpret to be a technical term to indicate a spell is on the spells known list, not a term about knowledge in general) using spell slots  mostly as other casters do. The difference being that Warlock spell slots refresh after a short rest instead of a long rest.

Spells gained through the Mystic Arcanum feature can be cast once per long rest (without burning a slot), and the reason they aren't consider known is that prevents them from being cast using spell slots, which means they can't be cast more frequently than Mystic Arcanum states, and they can't be cast at higher level by burning a higher slot.  

The spells you get via Mystic Arcanum are 6th level and higher, and if I read the Warlock progression table for spell slot level correctly, they never get spell slots at a level higher than 5th, so generally speaking I would expect these two casting features to overlap. I haven't really looked to see if there are any odd cases here, like what might happen if you took a spell through Mystic Arcanum that you a later, learned via other features or situations.

That was my take, anyway.  I haven't played with a 5e warlock at the table yet, so this is as close of a look as I've taken so far.

Edit: Oh, I didn't realize you were talking about the expanded spell list for warlocks at first (e.g. fireball being available to Fiend pact warlocks). In those cases I'm pretty sure the spells are treated like ones you would normally be able to learn. The spell list you choose from is simply expanded. All of which I think you said. There's just the opportunity cost of choosing fireball over some other spell to know.  Contrasted to the domain spells for clerics which are a zero cost addition. My brain was all focused on the Mystic Arcanum thing.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;791306If ever there were a place to be pedantic it's a thread about getting the rules wrong.

If ever there were a place to NOT make claims based on unannounced house rules (which is any place, really) it's a thread about getting the rules wrong.

Not that citing one line of what has to be one of the simplest and clearest rules in the game rises to the level of pedantry.

To reiterate, in case anyone has been confused by your counter-factual claptrap, 5e Warlock spell slots refresh every short rest (a period of at least one hour), and NOT every "encounter" as defined in 4e terms.

Again that is what is RAW but that is not the only option that will be used. In my experience very few games are actually RAW and depending on circumstances you can in fact get 1-2 short rests (defined as 1 hour) in a 24 hour period. Other times you may not get ANY rests other then a long rest in a 24 hour day. It's all about the circumstances and the style of game that is being run at an individual table.

And just because it's not RAW doesn't mean it's not DnD. Some games have short rests defined as even longer then 1 hour and long rests defined as whole days with stipulations. Other tables define short rests at 5/15/30 minutes Why? Because that is the type of campaign that DM and players want at their table.

Like any good edition of DnD 5e's rules are really flexible without messing up the whole game engine. They put a lot of thought into the fact that DnD has multiple iterations/interpretations and preferences.

QuoteWarlocks can cast spells they know (which I interpret to be a technical term to indicate a spell is on the spells known list, not a term about knowledge in general) using spell slots mostly as other casters do. The difference being that Warlock spell slots refresh after a short rest instead of a long rest.

I know that they do have to pick a set number of spells they know at specified levels but without the book I am not sure if the Patron spells are outside that number or not. And I forget if they can do the same as Bards, Paladins, etc and swap out any spell same level or lower for another like spell every level. I would assume they could but without the book I wouldn't guarantee that.

Quote from: Marleycat;792031Again that is what is RAW but that is not the only option that will be used. In my experience very few games are actually RAW and depending on circumstances you can in fact get 1-2 short rests (defined as 1 hour) in a 24 hour period. Other times you may not get ANY rests other then a long rest in a 24 hour day. It's all about the circumstances and the style of game that is being run at an individual table.

And just because it's not RAW doesn't mean it's not DnD. Some games have short rests defined as even longer then 1 hour and long rests defined as whole days with stipulations. Other tables define short rests at 5/15/30 minutes Why? Because that is the type of campaign that DM and players want at their table.

Like any good edition of DnD 5e's rules are really flexible without messing up the whole game engine. They put a lot of thought into the fact that DnD has multiple iterations/interpretations and preferences.

I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but the thread topic wasn't about what house rules somebody got wrong or misunderstood (pretty hard to do with house rules since they are crafted in-house). It's about the Rules as Delivered.

Quote from: Marleycat;792033I know that they do have to pick a set number of spells they know at specified levels but without the book I am not sure if the Patron spells are outside that number or not. And I forget if they can do the same as Bards, Paladins, etc and swap out any spell same level or lower for another like spell every level. I would assume they could but without the book I wouldn't guarantee that.

You're right; they can change out every level, and the patron spells simply expand the list they can choose from when they level.

Quote from: Natty Bodak;792034I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but the thread topic wasn't about what house rules somebody got wrong or misunderstood (pretty hard to do with house rules since they are crafted in-house). It's about the Rules as Delivered.

As for RAW you are correct it's just like I've said upthread I've never seen a longterm game ever be anything close to RAW. Usually you run it RAW to understand the system then change things suit you and your players preferences.

The only reason I even chimed in is because the DMG is coming and like FantasyCraft will be filled with developer approved houserules making the very concept of RAW where 5e is concerned a nebulous concept at best.

Quote from: Marleycat;792055The only reason I even chimed in is because the DMG is coming and like FantasyCraft will be filled with developer approved houserules making the very concept of RAW where 5e is concerned a nebulous concept at best.

I just had to say I found this line completely erotic.

You sure do keep pushing that "5 minute short rest" thing.  Funny how 5 minute short rests are just natural house rules and totally cool, yet removing at-will damage spells is a horrific conservative Taliban attempt at making it 1975 again.  It's almost like there is zero logical consistency to your statements and you're simply for anything giving more power to mages and against anything curtailing that power.  Which is fine , since however your group plays is good.for.them, it's the weird attempts at validation seeking which are odd.