I tend to prefer point buy (since I mostly play TFT and GURPS) but always with limits, suggestions and oversight on what is bought. I usually offer a variety of package deals that have different point totals, which tend to represent different types of character backgrounds.

That is, I prefer characters to be built to have values that make sense for the character.

Array or point buy. I have one game in which we rolled and the person who rolled well chose a Monk and is reaping the rewards way too much.

I drift between which way to go, to be honest, over my history with D&D.

Right now I'm running a campaign more or less as part of the Adventurer thing they do - you can see how tightly I'm tied to the program with how I don't remember what it's called - and the basic array they start you with seems to work well enough.  You're really good at a couple things, average at a few things, and suck at one thing.  It works well enough for a program where characters have to be created without trust issues, and with classes not seeming to depend as much on multiple high stats, it works nicely in 5th edition.

As I continue to run 5th edition, I continue to like it more.  We'll see what trips me up in the future, though.

Quote from: Necrozius;877693I let the players choose between all three.

However, last group (D&D 5e) had a tiny bit of friction because the resident power gamer rolled up, in front of everyone: 18, 17, 17, 15, 14 and 12, before any racial adjustments. Not much to do about that, but it makes me more likely to suggest point-buy in the future.

Personally, this is why whenever people want to do random, I let them all roll, but choose the player's roll to use.

So if you get a roll like the one above, EVERY player can use it and arrange it to taste.  It's a more fair way, and it promotes a less adversarial game style.

I'm sure Gronan will pop on by and say how we should 'Suck it up, bitches!' nd stick to 3d6 in order, cuz his way is the one true way, simply because he was at Gary's table for a few years, but in a game that's supposed to be cooperative, creating a power disparity among players creates some resentment, not always at each other, but definitely at their own luck.

For old D&D I devised a way of rolling random stats with d6 which gave the same overall distribution but where the 6 stats always added up to 63. This gives lots of random variation with characters without some being massively better or worse than the rest.

A similar but simpler solution would be to choose a number of different point-buy choices and then people roll to get one at random.

Quote from: JoeNuttall;877765For old D&D I devised a way of rolling random stats with d6 which gave the same overall distribution but where the 6 stats always added up to 63. This gives lots of random variation with characters without some being massively better or worse than the rest.

As a math geek, I've got to say I really like that method.  You've got the excitement of rolling dice, the chance of getting an 18 isn't any higher than normal, but you can't easily roll a terrible character.  Good job!

Quote from: jcfiala;877769As a math geek, I've got to say I really like that method.  You've got the excitement of rolling dice, the chance of getting an 18 isn't any higher than normal, but you can't easily roll a terrible character.  Good job!

Thanks :-)

So, in the context of 5e, from a player perspective, I have a preference for the random roll method, but find that I don't mind the standard array or point buy method.

Historically, the folks I play with don't seriously mind the occasional stat disparity, and it doesn't seem to be a killer in 5e. There's bitching and moaning, sure, but it's not serious/fun-killing.

From a DM perspective, I thought it would be a no-brainer to just let anyone use the method that they liked best.  The statistical difference, to me, is not enough to care much about it.  Do what makes you happy.

But, hold the phone. It was on this forum that I learned of people who dislike random roll over point buy, but if random roll were an option and another player would maybe take that option, they felt compelled to take it themselves because of the slight statistical advantage, and their fun would thereby be ruined because of the lack of fairness inherent in the system.

Which just goes to show you that chocolate tracksuit anaerobic fusillade, I guess.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;877763I'm sure Gronan will pop on by and say how we should 'Suck it up, bitches!' nd stick to 3d6 in order, cuz his way is the one true way, simply because he was at Gary's table for a few years, but in a game that's supposed to be cooperative, creating a power disparity among players creates some resentment, not always at each other, but definitely at their own luck.

Actually its 3d6 in order. Then shuffle points within certain limiters. Much like BX D&D.

Personally I wouldnt say it creates a power disparity as it is the class that really matters and how you play. My Magic user with 16 INT outlived at least three other MUs with 18+ INT scores. Be more concerned about your AC and HP. those 18 stats do you all of zero good if you rolled 1 HP.

And point buy can be just as problematic because a player can just min/max and start out in 5e with 15/15/15/8/8/8 before racial bonuses. Another player who spread their points more interestingly could feel resentful of the min/maxer.

But as with everything. Some players can and will obsess over something.

Quote from: mAcular Chaotic;877713You don't mandate one method for consistency?

In the group Im DMing 5e for after some deliberation I had everyone use one system where before I was going to let them choose. The reason was one player wasnt satisfied with the point buy system and obsessed for a while about being allowed to exceed it to 18. A minor irk. But enough to say fuck it everyone rolls.

In the group I am a player with Kefra and Jan it was a mix. And Kefra did a roll in order and selected class based on what she got. I do that fairly often too. with maybe swapping two stat positions.

Know your group and their expectations.

With my group, 5e comes with "new school" expectations, with people thinking up elaborate backstories or reveling in the badassery of their Dragonborn Vengeance Paladin or Drow Tome Warlock, so I'd use point-buy or array.

But if I was running a hardcore old school hexcrawl or megadungeon game with 5e (it wouldn't be my first choice but it's totally doable), where life is cheap and ten-foot-poles see a lot of use, random roll FTW.

Quote from: Omega;877791In the group I am a player with Kefra and Jan it was a mix. And Kefra did a roll in order and selected class based on what she got. I do that fairly often too. with maybe swapping two stat positions.

Are there any other players in that group? Do they have names too?

Quote from: S'mon;877796Are there any other players in that group? Do they have names too?

Why? Does it bother you that players might have names?

Currently just the three of us. And the DM. Two other players I've mentioned in other threads are infrequent to the point I havent heard from one in months. The other had to bow out due to long term family crisis.

Quote from: Omega;877803Why? Does it bother you that players might have names?

But it comes off as a little odd that you're willing to drop names.  I'm assuming you have permission or they don't care enough to be told to a bunch of strangers from around the world, but it's still odd.

Sometimes, I wonder if we're expected to know them well enough to be on a named basis with them.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;877806But it comes off as a little odd that you're willing to drop names.  I'm assuming you have permission or they don't care enough to be told to a bunch of strangers from around the world, but it's still odd.

Sometimes, I wonder if we're expected to know them well enough to be on a named basis with them.

What an odd thing to find odd. By consistently using their names, I can easily recall that Kefra is a druid and Jan is a fighter (or, um ,ranger ?).  Ironically, I can't remember what Omega plays. I don't recall if those are people names or character names, and I guess I don't care.

The way you know them well enough to know their names is by their names being used.