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5e playtest discussions have shown me the greatest danger to our hobby

Started by Sacrosanct, June 11, 2012, 05:27:27 PM

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thecasualoblivion

#30
June 11, 2012, 08:38:36 PM
Quote from: BedrockBrendan;547936What if the modules allow it?

Modules can only go so far, and I don't see them as being able to deliver a completely different game.
"Other RPGs tend to focus on other aspects of roleplaying, while D&D traditionally focuses on racially-based home invasion, murder and theft."--The Little Raven, RPGnet

"We\'re not more violent than other countries. We just have more worthless people who need to die."

thecasualoblivion

#31
June 11, 2012, 08:39:39 PM
Quote from: thedungeondelver;547938TCO is angry (excuse me, "angry" - TCO is a troll) because WotC basically did a 180' and came to old-schoolers on bended knee, first with the 1e reprints and then with the whole "include previous edition design elements by way of play options in 5e", then finally with not so subtle comments that 4e wasn't a runaway success.

Notwithstanding that 5e's got magic-users firing off magic missile at will without let or hindrance, that "short rests" are basically healing surges in disguise, and the hit point escalation is still through the roof.

Thus it's proof that he hasn't played it, and is posting to troll, QED.

You're making the assumption that legions of disgruntled 4E fans won't get catered to in the end.
"Other RPGs tend to focus on other aspects of roleplaying, while D&D traditionally focuses on racially-based home invasion, murder and theft."--The Little Raven, RPGnet

"We\'re not more violent than other countries. We just have more worthless people who need to die."

Bedrockbrendan

#32
June 11, 2012, 08:40:06 PM
Quote from: thecasualoblivion;547935That's a cop out way of dealing with people who don't share your opinions.

I agree people should be able to voice negative or positive opinions. But I have to say the 4E crowd is doing a splendid job of washing away any desire on my part to take their complaints seriously. Any effort We make to voice our concerns about one day healing for example are met with cries that our understanding of HP is WRONG and the WORST way to play the game. I am happy to entertain peoples' concern but it is a bit hard to do that when they won't even accept I arrived at my own set of preferences about D&D through experience and reason, rather than ignorance and misunderstanding.

Sacrosanct

#33
June 11, 2012, 08:40:29 PM
Quote from: thecasualoblivion;547935That's a cop out way of dealing with people who don't share your opinions.

It's not my opinion.  Why is this so hard for you to grasp.  When someone says that 5e is spiting all 4e players and refusing to even include anything that is 4e, that is objectively false.  That's not my opinion.

When people are taking a rough draft and throwing a fit saying they can't tell if it takes both arms to hook or just one, or when they bitch about an incomplete monster write up, when it tells you right there in the text, that's not my opinion, that's objective data.
D&D is not an "everyone gets a ribbon" game.  If you\'re stupid, your PC will die.  If you\'re an asshole, your PC will die (probably from the other PCs).  If you\'re unlucky, your PC may die.  Point?  PC\'s die.  Get over it and roll up a new one.

thecasualoblivion

#34
June 11, 2012, 08:41:13 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;547939As for the playtesting part, maybe I find it more irritating than most because I do testing for a living.  It gets really old to constantly hear people say what they think goes into testing (like Prof Cirno; he's one of the worst), when the reality is that they don't have a fucking clue as to what the testing process actually is.  

It is most assuredly *not* "this is my personal preference, so if it doesn't follow to my personal guidelines, then it's wrong."

Sure, I could start going over things like scope, requirements, defect reporting, development feedback, but they'd probably get a glassy look in their eyes, ignore it, and continue with raging about things that aren't really part of the process.

You speak as if an edition war litmus test wasn't an integral part of this particular playtest. Given their stated goal of "uniting the editions", you'd think that would be a given.
"Other RPGs tend to focus on other aspects of roleplaying, while D&D traditionally focuses on racially-based home invasion, murder and theft."--The Little Raven, RPGnet

"We\'re not more violent than other countries. We just have more worthless people who need to die."

thecasualoblivion

#35
June 11, 2012, 08:43:49 PM
Quote from: Sacrosanct;547944It's not my opinion.  Why is this so hard for you to grasp.  When someone says that 5e is spiting all 4e players and refusing to even include anything that is 4e, that is objectively false.  That's not my opinion.

When people are taking a rough draft and throwing a fit saying they can't tell if it takes both arms to hook or just one, or when they bitch about an incomplete monster write up, when it tells you right there in the text, that's not my opinion, that's objective data.

Change a few words in that statement and you sound just like a 4venger complaining about the haters.
"Other RPGs tend to focus on other aspects of roleplaying, while D&D traditionally focuses on racially-based home invasion, murder and theft."--The Little Raven, RPGnet

"We\'re not more violent than other countries. We just have more worthless people who need to die."

Benoist

#36
June 11, 2012, 08:45:47 PM
Quote from: thecasualoblivion;547942You're making the assumption that legions of disgruntled 4E fans won't get catered to in the end.

You're making the assumption that you are somehow representative of 4e fans in general.

That's bullshit. You're part of a fringe that is trolling for the lulz.

thecasualoblivion

#37
June 11, 2012, 08:47:46 PM
Quote from: Benoist;547948You're making the assumption that you are somehow representative of 4e fans in general.

That's bullshit. You're part of a fringe that is trolling for the lulz.

So you're saying 4E fans in general are happy with 5E? That goes against most of the gloating and complaints about 4E reactions I usually read here.
"Other RPGs tend to focus on other aspects of roleplaying, while D&D traditionally focuses on racially-based home invasion, murder and theft."--The Little Raven, RPGnet

"We\'re not more violent than other countries. We just have more worthless people who need to die."

One Horse Town

#38
June 11, 2012, 08:48:35 PM
Quote from: thecasualoblivion;547946Change a few words in that statement and you sound just like a 4venger complaining about the haters.

Pretty much.

People get left behind with each new edition and some folk get back on-board.

The people who get left behind bitch about it and the folk who get back on-board seem to like crowing about it.

It's not so much fun when you start as the latter and then become the former.

The best option is to do neither.

Bedrockbrendan

#39
June 11, 2012, 08:50:12 PM
Quote from: thecasualoblivion;547949So you're saying 4E fans in general are happy with 5E? That goes against most of the gloating and complaints about 4E reactions I usually read here.

I dont think that is what benoist was saying.

What I m personally seeing is 5E has fragmented the 4e base a bit, but that 4e fans seem to remain most critical of Next. However, i see lots of folks who started out criticial softening.

Benoist

#40
June 11, 2012, 08:50:27 PM
Quote from: thecasualoblivion;547949So you're saying 4E fans in general are happy with 5E?
I'm saying you are not representative of 4e fans and that we don't actually fucking know how they feel right now. Hint: I think they just like the game and don't give a fuck one way or the other. They certainly don't give a fuck about you and your whining right now.

estar

#41
June 11, 2012, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: thecasualoblivion;547940Modules can only go so far, and I don't see them as being able to deliver a completely different game.


Sure it a class and level game. 4e always had the ability to cater to older edition fans by making a set of classes and powers that mimic the flow and resource management of D&D. That the advantage of an exception based design. But thanks to organized play we never saw that and instead the product line went for the attitude is that "everything" is core.

RandallS

#42
June 11, 2012, 09:09:57 PM
Quote from: estar;547956Sure it a class and level game. 4e always had the ability to cater to older edition fans by making a set of classes and powers that mimic the flow and resource management of D&D. That the advantage of an exception based design. But thanks to organized play we never saw that and instead the product line went for the attitude is that "everything" is core.

Agreed. It would have been possible to build a version of 4e that was FAR more appealing to those who prefer TSR versions of D&D. It would have also been possible to create a version that did not need minis, battlemats, and a slew of condition markers and where combat was at least a couple of orders of magnitude faster.

Had 4e been OGL like 3.x, I suspect third party publishers would have quickly done this even if WOTC did not want to. Had this happened, 4e might not have died so quickly as such variants would have widened the narrow focus of WOTC 4e and helped it attract players who did not like the narrow field of playstyles 4e supported well.
Randall
Rules Light RPGs: Home of Microlite20 and Other Rules-Lite Tabletop RPGs

Black Vulmea

#43
June 11, 2012, 09:59:20 PM
Quote from: thecasualoblivion;547942. . . legions of disgruntled 4E fans . . .
If there were legions of 4e fans, Pathfinder would have the same market presence as DCC RPG and there wouldn't be D&D N5xt on the horizon.
"Of course five generic Kobolds in a plain room is going to be dull. Making it potentially not dull is kinda the GM\'s job." - #Ladybird, theRPGsite

Really Bad Eggs - swashbuckling roleplaying games blog  | Promise City - Boot Hill campaign blog

ACS

Killfuck Soulshitter

#44
June 11, 2012, 10:14:39 PM
I blame a lack of sex. Too many obese , stoop-shouldered dudes taking out their frustration on WotC. It's a sad state of affairs.
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